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Thread: IGF-1 vs HGH

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    damonic's Avatar
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    IGF-1 vs HGH

    I know a guy at my gym ... His size was average ... he started 4iu of gh for the past 4 months... He basicly looks like he lost like 5% bf and gained 20lbs of muscle...

    My question is this, Would IGF-1 do the same Job as GH??? i told myself ill stay away from IGF1 / gh but ****.. when u see the gains people are making on thsese stuff makes u think again...

    Any one ran both gh and igf on seperate cycles who can tell me if they are any where close to each other? i hear igf 1 suppose to be stronger but gh u can go on for 6months...


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    Igf is a quicker alternitive to hgh, hgh has its place but igf is deffinitely worth the $$

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    Quote Originally Posted by damonic
    I know a guy at my gym ... His size was average ... he started 4iu of gh for the past 4 months... He basicly looks like he lost like 5% bf and gained 20lbs of muscle...

    My question is this, Would IGF-1 do the same Job as GH??? i told myself ill stay away from IGF1 / gh but ****.. when u see the gains people are making on thsese stuff makes u think again...

    Any one ran both gh and igf on seperate cycles who can tell me if they are any where close to each other? i hear igf 1 suppose to be stronger but gh u can go on for 6months...


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    The anabolic effects of IGF-1 and GH are similar, since IGF-1 is what mediates most of GH's anabolic effects. However, you have to consider that people are using R3 and the doses are being shot IM (site-specific), which is going to give a much higher localized IGF-1 concentration than that which you'd see in response to GH induced IGF-1 level increases. The fat-loss properties are going to be almost exclusive to GH since for 2 reasons: 1) it's shot subQ 2) it has direct effects on adipocytes
    IGF-1 should be shot IM. GH will give you more global and diverse benefits if shot subQ. Using them together isn't out of the question either.

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    einstein you seem to know alot about IGF, would you consider it to be very safe? What measuers can be taken to insure safty? Have you used it? I really like the idea of localized growth....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    einstein you seem to know alot about IGF, would you consider it to be very safe? What measuers can be taken to insure safty? Have you used it? I really like the idea of localized growth....
    The first thing you have to consider is that R3 IGF-1 is more "potent" at the doses used than the typical doses of GH used. That's hard to explain, but GH will cause the liver to produce hepatic IGF-1, which is secreted and works at sites/cell types throughout the body, but this IGF-1 is susceptible to being bound by IGF binding proteins and is also quickly degraded. IGF-1 LR3 is not susceptible to binding by IGFBPs and is bioavailable for a much greater duration than hepatic IGF-1. If you shoot R3 subQ throughout a cycle, you are openning yourself up to all the negative effects of IGF-1 and (IMO) not getting the optimal anabolic results you could IM. Having a very bioavailable form of IGF-1 in your system (plasma) for long periods means there is that much greater a possibility of it binding unwanted cell types (epithelia (intestines), organs such as the spleen, and although beneficial in moderation, to tendons). Sorry to those that have read my posting the following before, but there is recent data to show that IGF-1 may not enter or leave muscles well or at all. Most of the benefits of GH on muscles is GH binding to GH receptors on muscle and causing intramuscular expression of IGF-1, not IGF-1 entering the muscle via plasma (No one knows why). Shooting IGF-1 IM means you are introducing a very highly bioavailable form of IGF-1 into a location from which it can't freely leave. Post workout you have an increased expression of IGF receptors in the worked muscles.
    Post w/o is the way to go, bilaterally into the muscles worked.....IMO.

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    Wow thanks for the info, and if you care to share more about it do so. where do you learn this info as I would like to read about it? Have you used it before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    Wow thanks for the info, and if you care to share more about it do so. where do you learn this info as I would like to read about it? Have you used it before?
    I've used 3mg total split up into 2 cycles at 50mcg/day bilaterally. I'm sold.

    Medline/pubmed searches will turn up a lot of publications. I'm at medschool, so I have access to pretty much every journal full text, whereas you won't through a private ISP. If there is a med school near you, go to their library. You'll find tons of endocrinology texts and many books specifically on GH or IGF-1. If it's a decent med school, it should have good current books. Many of these will cite many relevant clinical studies. Abstracts can be informative, but you have to take them with a grain of salt. The conclusions in an abstract are that of the author and not necessarily the conclusions another scientist would come to looking at the same data. Sciencedirect.com is another great search site for journal articles.

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    Interesting

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    Not to hijack this thread, but i was just curious on igf dosage and how long a person could run it. Personally i have never done any sort of cycle yet, but have been planning for several years, would i be able to use igf or should i wait and do a test cycle first and see what happens....

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    I think it would be 25mcgs in each muscle. And I think people only run it around 4 weeks. I am really new to the IGF world, but this is off the top of my head. So correcte me if I am wrong. And if you have never done a cycle, id wait a long ass time before you try IGF

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    Zues is offline Associate Member
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    Sorry, but I have heard about IGF-1, but it is not in my Anabolics 2002 book or in the profiles here on AR. What exactly is IGF-1 and what does it do (as far as mass and strength gains), how much do you take/for how long, and what are approx. costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues
    Sorry, but I have heard about IGF-1, but it is not in my Anabolics 2002 book or in the profiles here on AR. What exactly is IGF-1 and what does it do (as far as mass and strength gains), how much do you take/for how long, and what are approx. costs.
    To answer the above post about dosage too....I think that if I were to do it again, the only thing I'd change would be starting at a lower dose (I'd shoot bilaterally and 1x/day post w/o still). It makes more sense to see how you as an individual respond to a range of doses. No reason to use 100mcgs when 40 may get you 90% the gains that 100 does. Those #s are just made up, but start low.

    IGF-1 is a peptide hormone that is one of the most important factors in muscle growth. I'm not going to post all of its roles, as they are countless, but you can find tons of background info even doing a simple google search. Once you read some of the things it does/can do, you can read some of the in depth posts on how BBers use it. 25-30 day cycles are the norm. You should be able to get 1mg for around $200.

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    Doesnt it cause abdominal cancer if you use to much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by damonic
    Doesnt it cause abdominal cancer if you use to much?
    Absolutely not. AAS, peptide hormones like GH and IGF-1 do NOT cause cancer. If you already have cancer, they are likely to exacerbate it, but they do NOT cause cancer...period!

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    Quote Originally Posted by einstein1905
    Absolutely not. AAS, peptide hormones like GH and IGF-1 do NOT cause cancer. If you already have cancer, they are likely to exacerbate it, but they do NOT cause cancer...period!

    Thanks for the quick reply. So when cycling IGF-1 you should do 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by damonic
    Thanks for the quick reply. So when cycling IGF-1 you should do 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off?
    That seems to work best, but I'm not sure how many people have actually tried going longer. The gains do seem to taper though. There is some data out there to kind of support this theory too....not directly though.

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    Thanks

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    incredible bulk is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry about the jacking, but what would you say works the best IGF-1 or HGH??

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    Quote Originally Posted by incredible bulk
    Sorry about the jacking, but what would you say works the best IGF-1 or HGH??
    It depends on what you're using it for and the doses you use, as well as what you use with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by einstein1905
    The first thing you have to consider is that R3 IGF-1 is more "potent" at the doses used than the typical doses of GH used. That's hard to explain, but GH will cause the liver to produce hepatic IGF-1, which is secreted and works at sites/cell types throughout the body, but this IGF-1 is susceptible to being bound by IGF binding proteins and is also quickly degraded. IGF-1 LR3 is not susceptible to binding by IGFBPs and is bioavailable for a much greater duration than hepatic IGF-1. If you shoot R3 subQ throughout a cycle, you are openning yourself up to all the negative effects of IGF-1 and (IMO) not getting the optimal anabolic results you could IM. Having a very bioavailable form of IGF-1 in your system (plasma) for long periods means there is that much greater a possibility of it binding unwanted cell types (epithelia (intestines), organs such as the spleen, and although beneficial in moderation, to tendons). Sorry to those that have read my posting the following before, but there is recent data to show that IGF-1 may not enter or leave muscles well or at all. Most of the benefits of GH on muscles is GH binding to GH receptors on muscle and causing intramuscular expression of IGF-1, not IGF-1 entering the muscle via plasma (No one knows why). Shooting IGF-1 IM means you are introducing a very highly bioavailable form of IGF-1 into a location from which it can't freely leave. Post workout you have an increased expression of IGF receptors in the worked muscles.
    Post w/o is the way to go, bilaterally into the muscles worked.....IMO.
    From what I understand, the reason the thinking that LR3 IGF-1 didn't leave the muscle it was injected into, is because the test to detect IGF-1 measures that IGF-1BPs. Like you mentioned LR3 IGF-1 isn't bound by IGF-1BPs, so the test used to detect it doesn't work. That's why the idea or studies came out that it doesn't leave the muscle that's been injected.

    It has to be getting into my system, because my hunger on it has gone up while using it

    JohnnyB

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    JB how much are you taking? Are you worried about sides???

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyB
    From what I understand, the reason the thinking that LR3 IGF-1 didn't leave the muscle it was injected into, is because the test to detect IGF-1 measures that IGF-1BPs. Like you mentioned LR3 IGF-1 isn't bound by IGF-1BPs, so the test used to detect it doesn't work. That's why the idea or studies came out that it doesn't leave the muscle that's been injected.

    It has to be getting into my system, because my hunger on it has gone up while using it

    JohnnyB
    In the studies that I was referring to, they are actually measuring IGF-1, and it wasn't the LR3 version in this case. You have to consider all of the indirect effects that IGF-1 will have as well. Such as IGF-1 within muscle can upregulate the expression of several other genes that, in turn, cause a physiological reaction. This doesn't mean that IGF-1 is leaving the site, but more likely that some downstream effector(s) are. No one knows really, but the more recent stuff makes good arguments and supports it with data that IGF-1 doesn't leave the muscle. Hypothetically, we'll say it does, you'd still want to inject IM to introduce the greatest concentration of IGF-1 at the site that would be most beneficial....the muscle just worked, which has upregulated IGF receptor levels.

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    Ntpadude is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues
    Sorry, but I have heard about IGF-1, but it is not in my Anabolics 2002 book or in the profiles here on AR. What exactly is IGF-1 and what does it do (as far as mass and strength gains), how much do you take/for how long, and what are approx. costs.
    I was interested for a while but some dudes complain muscle pumps are very painful post workout. Also there is some things said about shoe and glove size changing in as little as 30 days on IGF meaning you can experience gigantism effects like too much gh, elongating fingers, foot grows bigger, jaw bone and forehead enlarge, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntpadude
    I was interested for a while but some dudes complain muscle pumps are very painful post workout. Also there is some things said about shoe and glove size changing in as little as 30 days on IGF meaning you can experience gigantism effects like too much gh, elongating fingers, foot grows bigger, jaw bone and forehead enlarge, etc.
    wow anymore info on this??

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    incredible bulk is offline Junior Member
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    hgh or igf-1

    Honestly I need to cut a bit of fat. I want to remain somewhat strong.
    I am not as interested in bodybuilding as I am powerlifting, but I dont want to be one of these blubber powerlifters either. I want a look like big Big Bill Kazmier (I think that is how you spell his name.I dont mind a bit of a gut.

    5'9" 290lbs
    just...just under 20" arms
    53" chest I always forget my legs sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    JB how much are you taking? Are you worried about sides???
    I'm using 20mcg post w/o, I like the results I'm getting. I do have low hgh/igf-1 so this maybe why I'm having good results with it. I'm only injecting in the quads, my arms are feeling tighter so I think it working for me. I will go 40mcg next time.

    JohnnyB

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    So you shoot just in your quads.... and your arms are growing? So I thought it was site specific? That really scares me, because it might cause your organs, or bones to grow and thats no good.... is my thinking correct on this? Also are you just using IFG?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    So you shoot just in your quads.... and your arms are growing? So I thought it was site specific? That really scares me, because it might cause your organs, or bones to grow and thats no good.... is my thinking correct on this? Also are you just using IFG?
    The results will be more site-specific than anything, but I "felt" it in areas other than I injected too. What the research papers say and what happens outside of the lab don't always mesh. I still think that if it is leaving the injected muscle, it's a small percentage. I did see the results in the muscles I targeted, primarily. I think you don't need to worry much about organ growth, etc. The doses and durations of use are nothing compared to. what I assume, the pros use. There are people on the board that have gone through 5mg+, I'm sure, which isn't a lot, but I've heard no one speak up about a side other than headaches and painful pumps.

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    So do you feel that its safe to run? Is there an age recomendation with this stuff? I am considering it once I am older... I want to use it for lagging body parts... ie calves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    So do you feel that its safe to run? Is there an age recomendation with this stuff? I am considering it once I am older... I want to use it for lagging body parts... ie calves.
    It's hard to say an age. It's similar, obviously, to the majority of GH's effects, but you can't directly compare them. I think it's safe enough for me to use, for what that's worth. I'm 27.

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    Is there anyway you could go to a health care pro and watch you through the whole duration of IGF and look for sides? Or is it too hard to look for them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    Is there anyway you could go to a health care pro and watch you through the whole duration of IGF and look for sides? Or is it too hard to look for them?
    You'd need to find one to cooperate with your doing that. I doubt you'd have much luck. To see organ growth, which I wouldn't really worry about, you'd need to do MRIs or CT scans. How you'd justify those to the ins co, I don't know. We don't even know all of the possible things to look for. I think some people threw out some horror stories about sides of GH/IGF-1, and they were taken out of context. They are possibilities, but not so much so that I won't use them now and in the future. It's nothing that'll happen overnight either. Even mentioning these rare sides seems to propogate the fears of them, but I think you get what I'm saying.
    Last edited by einstein1905; 03-10-2004 at 10:48 PM.

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    very true, thanks for the info bro!!! you have helped out a lot! More info we have on this the better...
    Last edited by Mr. Sparkle; 03-10-2004 at 10:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle
    So you shoot just in your quads.... and your arms are growing? So I thought it was site specific? That really scares me, because it might cause your organs, or bones to grow and thats no good.... is my thinking correct on this? Also are you just using IFG?
    Everything is growing muscle that is what I'm saying is you can inject site specific but you don't have to. At least that's my experiance with it so far.

    JohnnyB

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