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from research, i know one should take a shot og GH in the morning and one later that day, but my question is that i lift at night around 7, so should i take me second shot of GH before i lift or after? keep in mind i take my shot of test right before i lift eod. just want to do everything corrrect. thanks for help.
i would imho take it in the afternoon before you lift, seeing as the half life is very short and you dont want to be taking it at night as your body releases its own gh at night soon as you fall into deep sleep
peace
so how about 7 in the morning and 6 at night before i lift would that be ok
also ,do i take morning shot before or after breakfast, and if i take my second shot before the gym is it ok to take shot of test around the same time? thanks again
LOL well this the greatly debated subject ,different times work for different people ,and about the taking at night will stop ur natural production ,well fact is the pretty much no matter what time u take it due to the half life it wil supress natural levels regardless,Jason id like to see where u saw that the half life is short ,it take about 3 hrs to metbolise into ur system ,and then has a half life of 10-13 hrs ,if u r not takin anything more then 4ius then really its not worth itsplitting up injects ,ur body does not like large sureges of gh ,thast the whole theroy and reasoning why u should plit up ur dosages(injects).what worked best for me was early in the am and right before bed ,u will not find a stright awnser,for this ,and there alot of contradicting stuyds on halflives and everyting else ,u will have to get a feel for it and see what works best for u .
i will have a look for some studies, however the main point being, no point injecting extra gh when ur body produces its most gh is there? why not take it at times where it is not producing?? I didnt suggest evening, I would suggest 8am and 2-3pm thats what i do. I think you will find if you read some other threads most other people agree with that dosing idea, there will always be the odd few who like to cause controversy
almost everywhere i read i see short half life listed, one place says 25 mins
http://www.neurosci.pharm.utoledo.edu/MBC3320/GH.htm
most places say a few hrs max, never have i read anyone saying 10hrs +?? where did you get your info?
without a doubt the half life is 2-3 hours. i have read 100 of threads and tech reports and 1 out of 100 would say take before you go to bed. pointless doing that before you get you biggest natural surge. i take mine 8am and 2pm 4ius a day.
peace
AS
Yeah, that 10+ hours... I haven't seen that before. Currently I do 8am and 2-4 pm.
If you find the studie/article that indicates 10+ hours, by all means, post it.
no boys it peaks in 3-4 hrs but last 9-12 hrs or so ,
Although the mean serum 22K-GH levels after injection were not different even at higher doses compared to the placebo group during the first 4 h, the 22K-hGH levels were reduced even at lower doses from approximately 4–6 h up to 12 h. During the subsequent 24-h observation period, the 22K-hGH levels gradually returned to the placebo level.
So suppression does not even begin until 4 hours after injection, and can last for many hours after that, as the abovementioned figures show. The reason there is a lag of a few hours is because it takes several hours for IGF-1 (which suppresses GH) to rise after a GH injection. See fig 4.
The lower figures of 4 to 6 hours of suppression after an injection are from rat studies:
In previous studies (31, 32), single intramuscularly or sc administration of hGH (with monitoring of the resulting plasma profiles) showed a delayed and prolonged suppressive effect on rat GH secretion. The time course of endogenous GH suppression in rats was similar to but faster than that in humans reported here. The fast time course in rats was probably due to the rapid absorption of hGH in this species (14, 33)
agent smith,hes one school of thought
There are two schools of thought (or 3 if you consider the school that holds there is no difference). One line of reasoning holds that if you take the GH right before bed, since it takes about 4 hours for suppression to set in, you very well may get your natural bedtime pulse and the exo pulse. In fact you can see this in some of those graphs.
The other school says take it very early in the morning, say at 6 AM. Suppose you go to bed at 11 PM and you get your normal pulse around midnight or so. That leaves 18 hours between your morning shot and the time your pulse should occur. That may very well be long enough for the morning shot to wear off so you still get your bedtime pulse, and your exo morning pulse, giving you a more steady 24 hour elevated GH level. This second theory makes sense to me and is worth trying, especially with a relatively low GH dose, like 2 IU, which is more likely to wear off by bedtime.
there was agreat article by ironmaster and supergirl on steroidology on this ,
The half-life of plasma GH is less than 30min in almost every study you'll see...less than 10min in some. I'll just post a few for now, but If I have time later today, I'll post more.
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Nov;285(5):E1118-26. Epub 2003 Jul 29. Related Articles, Links
A statistical model of diurnal variation in human growth hormone.
Klerman EB, Adler GK, Jin M, Maliszewski AM, Brown EN.
Division of Sleep Medicine, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard Medical School, 221 Longwood Ave., Boston, MA 02115, USA. [email protected]
The diurnal pattern of growth hormone (GH) serum levels depends on the frequency and amplitude of GH secretory events, the kinetics of GH infusion into and clearance from the circulation, and the feedback of GH on its secretion. We present a two-dimensional linear differential equation model based on these physiological principles to describe GH diurnal patterns. The model characterizes the onset times of the secretory events, the secretory event amplitudes, as well as the infusion, clearance, and feedback half-lives of GH. We illustrate the model by using maximum likelihood methods to fit it to GH measurements collected in 12 normal, healthy women during 8 h of scheduled sleep and a 16-h circadian constant-routine protocol. We assess the importance of the model components by using parameter standard error estimates and Akaike's Information Criterion. During sleep, both the median infusion and clearance half-life estimates were 13.8 min, and the median number of secretory events was 2. During the constant routine, the median infusion half-life estimate was 12.6 min, the median clearance half-life estimate was 11.7 min, and the median number of secretory events was 5. The infusion and clearance half-life estimates and the number of secretory events are consistent with current published reports. Our model gave an excellent fit to each GH data series. Our analysis paradigm suggests an approach to decomposing GH diurnal patterns that can be used to characterize the physiological properties of this hormone under normal and
pathological conditions.
Time Mode of Growth Hormone (GH) Entry into the Bloodstream and Steady-State Plasma GH Concentrations, Rather Than Sex, Estradiol, or Menstrual Cycle Stage, Primarily Determine the GH Elimination Rate in Healthy Young Women and Men1
N. Shah2, J. Aloi, W. S. Evans and J. D. Veldhuis
Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine, and National Science Foundation Center for Biological Timing, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908
We have investigated whether a reduced MCR of GH in women will account for their higher serum GH concentrations premenopausally compared with those in men. To this end, we directly compared the half-life (t1/2) of GH and its volume of distribution (Vo) in 13 young men and 6 comparably aged women, each evaluated at three stages of the normal menstrual cycle (viz. the early follicular, late follicular, and midluteal phases). To estimate nonequilibrium GH kinetics, each subject received octreotide pretreatment to suppress endogenous GH release and then 3 randomly ordered iv bolus doses of recombinant human GH (1, 2, and 4 µg/kg). The resultant peak serum GH concentrations were 18 ± 4, 36 ± 8, and 70 ± 9 µg/L in six women and 17 ± 2, 30 ± 4, and 84 ± 25 µg/L in six men (P = NS, gender contrast). Corresponding Vo values were 66 ± 1, 71 ± 1, and 60 ± 1 mL/kg in women and 69 ± 1, 78 ± 1, and 73 ± 1 mL/kg in men (P = NS). Matching monoexponential GH t1/2 values were 7.6 ± 0.3, 8.2 ± 0.4, and 8.8 ± 0.7 min in women and 9.8 ± 0.8, 10 ± 1, and 9.5 ± 1 min in men (average 1.7 min longer in men). Regression analysis disclosed no relationship between serum estradiol concentrations and peak serum GH levels, GH t1/2, or Vo. GH t1/2 values were also invariant of menstrual cycle stage, e.g. t1/2 values of 8.1 ± 0.5, 9.1 ± 1.0, and 8.1 ± 0.4 min for the early follicular, late follicular, and midluteal phases, respectively. Corresponding normalized MCRs were 319 ± 39 (early follicular), 340 ± 48 (late follicular), and 340 ± 71 (midluteal) L/m2·day in women and 336 ± 50 L/m2·day in men (P = NS).
In parallel equilibrium infusion studies in men, we administered GH by constant iv infusions for 240 min during octreotide suppression. At doses of 0.5, 1.5, and 4.5 µg/kg·min, steady state GH t1/2 values were 9 ± 1, 12 ± 1, and 15 ± 1 min (at respective steady state serum GH concentrations of 0.5 ± 0.05, 2.1 ± 0.2, and 7.5 ± 0.5 µg/L). In a third analysis in the same volunteers, stopping the constant iv infusions revealed t1/2 values of GH decay from equilibrium of 26 ± 5 and 23 ± 2.3 min for the two higher GH infusion rates. In a fourth paradigm, endogenous GH t1/2 values, as assessed in the same individuals by deconvolution analysis of overnight (10-min sampled) serum GH concentration profiles, averaged 18 ± 1.3 min. This value was intermediate between that of poststeady state decay and iv bolus elimination of GH.
In summary, the foregoing clinical experiments in healthy men and women indicate that 1) the nonequilibrium GH t1/2, (body surface area-normalized) Vo, and MCR are independent of GH dose, sex, menstrual cycle stage, and serum estradiol concentrations; 2) the GH t1/2 calculated after iv bolus injection is significantly (50%) shorter than that assessed during or after steady-state GH infusions or endogenously (overnight) by deconvolution analysis; and 3) the descending rank order of GH t1/2 values in healthy volunteers is approximately: decay from steady state (23 ± 2.3 min) > endogenously secreted GH (18 ± 1.3 min) > during equilibrium infusion (15 ± 1 min) > after bolus infusion (9.8 ± 0.8 min). We thus conclude that for any given body surface area, the elimination properties of GH in men and women reflect predominantly the time mode of hormone entry into the circulation, rather than gender, menstrual cycle stage, or prevailing serum estradiol concentration. Accordingly, differences in serum GH concentrations in premenopausal women compared to those in young men and across the normal menstrual cycle reflect commensurate differences in pituitary GH secretion rates.
Half-life of plasma growth hormone in young and old conscious female rats.
- Goya RG, Sosa YE, Meites J
Exp Gerontol 1987;22(1):27-36.
The kinetics of disappearance of plasma GH was studied in young (3-4 months) and old (24-27 months) Sprague-Dawley female rats. Conscious, free moving animals carrying indwelling atrial and carotid cannulas received a single injection of 125I-rGH via the carotid cannula. Sequential blood samples were removed at intervals during the following hour, and total (TR) and immunoprecipitable radioactivity (IPR) were determined in the corresponding plasmas. Both TR and IPR displayed biexponential kinetics in vivo which did not differ significantly, for each variable, between young and old animals. The volumes of distribution of GH were also similar in both age-groups. The IPR/TR ratio, an estimate of GH inactivation within the plasma space, showed a decreasing sigmoid-shaped kinetics in vivo with a time of semi-inactivation (ti1/2) of 23.8 1.2 and 29.0 1.0 min (mean SE) for young and old rats, respectively (P less than 0.02). The estrous status did not significantly affect ti1/2 values in vivo. The in vitro t1/2 was estimated by incubating plasma from the young and old animals at 37 degrees C with 125I-rGH for several hours. The IPR/TR ratio displayed a linear kinetics in vitro with t1/2 values of 23.7 1.7 and 25.8 1.9 h (NS) for young and old animals, respectively. The above results show that GH catabolism decreases slightly with age in the female rat, although it is unlikely that this change has a significant effect on plasma levels of GH. The data also suggest that GH is physiologically inactivated in the extravascular space.
so is it ok to take at 7 in the morning and 6 at night after work right before i lift ? thanks
There is a fantastic argument (I will have to find which site it's on) between Iron Master and his daughter on when to take it. If you have never heard of them, they are experts on this subject. I always took in the morning so I wouldn't supress my natural GH at night
I'd love to see it, as I'm sure many here would. Do whatever you can to find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by buylongterm
Thanks
so guys due to work, is it ok to take firsy shot at 7 am and last shot at 6 pm? thanks again
In my opinion, yes. If at all possible, I'd try to take the last shot a bit earlier, but it may not be possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by njk
Best time for GH shots is at 8:00 am and 2:00 pm...that's when your cortisol levels are at there highest...followed by checking your BG 2 hours after each shot...so 10:00am and 4:00pm. After checking your BG you can succesfully dose your slin accordingly!
From my research I've learned there are two peak periods - one within 2 hours of administration and the other in 14 - 17 hours. This appears related to the fact the HGH desn't get metabolized as other medications do.
This is what I have read.
That being said, I currently take 2 i.u. in the early a.m. as part of HRT program. I have avoided taking it at bedtime with the thought of preventing nighttime GH suppression.