600 grams of protein!! HOW?

[flexshack]

so we need to consume at least 3x your weight worth of protein when on igf-1. tell me what your daily menu would look like for this. i am going to be doing this very soon. the first foods that come to mind are lowfat meats, fish, and lowfat cottage cheese (and lots of them). but this is really going to take a lot of time to prepare everything, is it not? costly too.
now i need to go and calm my kidneys down (they're getting a little nervous).

[GeoQuadzilla]

I can't see that being right man... Pro's when they are going HIGH on protein don't go past 2g's per pound of bodyweight. I don't even think it would be possible to consume that much protein along with, carbs, water, and fats... Unless you are a Grizzley Bear 3g's per pound is a rediculous number!

[bermich]

Im a grizzly bear. roar.....

[flexshack]

I can't see that being right man... Pro's when they are going HIGH on protein don't go past 2g's per pound of bodyweight. I don't even think it would be possible to consume that much protein along with, carbs, water, and fats... Unless you are a Grizzley Bear 3g's per pound is a rediculous number!

i know it's very high, but this is what i keep reading as being the recommendation. it is possible, just a royal pain in the ass. i guess i will be eating every minute of the day!

[GeoQuadzilla]

You are woman and I hear you roar

Im a grizzly bear. roar.....

[GeoQuadzilla]

Good luck man and take a lot of fiber... Going to the bathroom after eating 600g's of protein a day all I can say is Ouch!!!

i know it's very high, but this is what i keep reading as being the recommendation. it is possible, just a royal pain in the ass. i guess i will be eating every minute of the day!

[KGBnine]

hey flex where did you read that at? CUz Im gonna start some soon and I'd like to do it right to maximize gains.

[harleyman]

cook up a **** load of chicken breast get a little cooler and take it with you i live on chicken breast.i try to eat at least 8 breasts a day then meat for dinner.works out pretty well .

[flexshack]

hey flex where did you read that at? CUz Im gonna start some soon and I'd like to do it right to maximize gains.

a few different places but beyondmass.com is one of them. go to their gfl forum. also, musclechemistry.com as well. extreme protein intake seems to be a very important determinant of sucess with igf.

[einstein1905]

3g/lb is extreme. You'll be able to eat more, as your appetite will increase, but that number is a bit high. I don't think anyone is in the position to be able to put a number to it.

[flexshack]

cook up a **** load of chicken breast get a little cooler and take it with you i live on chicken breast.i try to eat at least 8 breasts a day then meat for dinner.works out pretty well .

you know i was just thinking about doing this too. thanks, it's an awesome idea. btw, i just bought a new grill so i guess i will be putting it to good use.

[flexshack]

I don't think anyone is in the position to be able to put a number to it.

i agree with you on this, but the way i am looking at it is i will shoot for the 3g/lb theory. i most likely will fail, but i will still try. i am pretty sure that protein synthesis in substantially increased so it really cannot hurt. and the anecdotal reports i have seen, seem to be positive when consuming these high amounts of protein.
btw, if protein synthesis is increased, does this also increase the rate and amount of protein absorption from the intestinal tract as well?

[einstein1905]

i agree with you on this, but the way i am looking at it is i will shoot for the 3g/lb theory. i most likely will fail, but i will still try. i am pretty sure that protein synthesis in substantially increased so it really cannot hurt. and the anecdotal reports i have seen, seem to be positive when consuming these high amounts of protein.
btw, if protein synthesis is increased, does this also increase the rate and amount of protein absorption from the intestinal tract as well?

Not necessarily. The real rate-limiting mechanism here will be getting amino acids intramuscularly, that's where a GH/slin combo comes in, but that's not for everyone.
The more protein you take in, the more potential for amino acid uptake, but the relationship is not linear beyond a certain point.

[flexshack]

Not necessarily. The real rate-limiting mechanism here will be getting amino acids intramuscularly, that's where a GH/slin combo comes in, but that's not for everyone.
The more protein you take in, the more potential for amino acid uptake, but the relationship is not linear beyond a certain point.

when you mentioned the gh/slin combo, why gh too? isn't it mostly insulin that is responsible for shuttling? gh doesn't do this, right?
and as a side note, i would think there would be even more potential for an igf-1/slin combo.

[einstein1905]

when you mentioned the gh/slin combo, why gh too? isn't it mostly insulin that is responsible for shuttling? gh doesn't do this, right?
and as a side note, i would think there would be even more potential for an igf-1/slin combo.

http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=94352

[flexshack]

http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=94352

i am sorry. i had already read that thread too but forgot about your addition at the end. thanks for the reminder.

[Spoon]

Think thats a tad to much bro! anything that much is excessive and might not be too good for your kidneys. that figure must be wrong.

Spoon

[flexshack]

Think thats a tad to much bro! anything that much is excessive and might not be too good for your kidneys. that figure must be wrong.

Spoon

that's what i thought too, but i am still going to aim high.

[ChrisB]

1 gram of protein = 4 calories
600 grams = 2400 cals

I guess it's not that unbeleivable... just drink protein shakes rather then water, probably go through a 5 lb tub a week, and eat a $h!t load of lean meat.

[JonnyO]

If your trying to grow getting in 450-500+grams of protein daily (depending on bodyweight) is needed IMO. So you should be eating this much regardless. Everything else, IGF, GH, Slin and AAS compliments hard training and eating.

[Maniacal]

Howz 'bout 3 grams of protien per kilo of bodyweight?

[cpt steele]

Its not that hard 3gx bw is what La from beyond says. When I ran igf this winter I was about 2.5 and it was good I kicked it up to the 3 and look out. I ran mine at the end of mycycle and it hardened my gains signifigantly. Here is my bulker coming up this fall Its about 540 gms of pro a day

http://67.18.108.244//showthread.php?t=111220

[kingofmasters]

Take about 200 grams (about 1/2 lbs) of proteinshakes in addition to your diet consisting of chicken, fish, low fat meats (these are the tastiests; steaks etc.) etc.

Trueprotein and Proteinfactory have real good protein and service!
(Trueprotein is much cheaper though)

Take (all with Aminogen and if you want Vitaminmix in the blend):
50 gram Whey Protein Isolate CFM first thing in the morning!
25 gram of Whey Protein Isolate CFM pre-workout
25 gram Casein/EggWhite (50%/50%) OR just Milkprotein before bed

and:

Do this formula if under 30 years old:

40% Milk Protein Isolate
20% Whey Protein Isolate cross-flow microfiltration
20% Micellar Casein
10% Egg White Protein
10% Glutamine Peptides
+Aminogen (+if you want Vitaminmix)

If over 30 do this:

15% Milk Protein Isolate
60% Whey Protein Isolate cross-flow microfiltration
10% Micellar Casein
5% Egg White Protein
10% Glutamine Peptides
+Aminogen (+if you want Vitaminmix)

Take 100 gram Post-Work Out!

Proteinsupplementation is too often neglicted!!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[TheChosenOne]

KingofMasters what affiliation do you have with TrueProtein? Personally TrueProtein is far and away the worst tasting protein I have ever had. In all honesty I could think of far more options that are better tasting and better priced.

http://67.18.108.244/showthread.php?t=109162

[bermich]

Heard it isnt good to comsume more than 2 grams of protein.
Figure a shake has 50 grams of protein.12 shakes a day should do ya....

[AnabolicAlien]

i think it sucks that people are really buying into the need to eat tremendous, absurd amounts of protein to make gains. i think this was started mostly by the supplement manufacturers. remember, cell tech supposedly increases muscle mass by 333% in one study too so we all better go out and eat buckets and buckets of that.

sheesh...

E.T.

[kingofmasters]

KingofMasters what affiliation do you have with TrueProtein? Personally TrueProtein is far and away the worst tasting protein I have ever had. In all honesty I could think of far more options that are better tasting and better priced.

http://67.18.108.244/showthread.php?t=109162

I don't have any affiliation with them, most simple evidence for that is the fact that i live in Holland, only thing is that in my opinion there are only two real "Proteindealers out there" (so which will let you customize blend etc...),
Now I've always been a real protein-supporter, and was a satisfied customer of Proteinfactory, but a test showed (have to look that up for you) that they have the same purity as Trueprotein (probably have the same supplier).
Fact is just that Trueprotein is much cheaper (well before they raised their prices, now it just is a cheaper) and Proteinfactory is more for the "noob" in proteinconsuming.

What I disliked about Trueprotein though is that when I wanted to place an order of 200 lbs, and asked if they could send me 100 gram samples of (first asked for 10 grams but they said that is too little) of all their 27 flavours (so 2,7 KG --> All expenses covered by me) that they just didn't want to do that!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[kingofmasters]

ohh and someone is probably gonna mention 70-90 grams is overkill and the body cant absorb that much. It might be so but Il rather eat to much protein then to little

Quite interesting; Only thing is that proteinintake "off cycle" is far exagerated and proteinintake "on cycle" is far underestimated!

With a cycle I mean Cycle + Time till PCT + PCT + time that levels are apparently stable and thus musclemass gained is "secured" (so about cycletime + 2 months) is the time that you need about 200-300 grams a day.
(Now don't give me bull about; 600 grams, nobody that is not on HGH/IGF-L3/Chemokines/Cytokines/other growthfactors can synthesize that --> perhaps if it is his first or second cycle but most of the time not!)

So unless you are way passed your "plateau" (NOT genetic limit for the LAST TIME, this simply cannot be reached!), and have difficulty keeping gained mass there, most people have enough on about 60-100 grams of proteins a day to keep enzymes and immunesystem normal (main goals for consuming protein) and thus not catabolizing muscle.
(In theory 60-100 gram is even too much, if one just uses exact ratios of Essential amino acids! --> 30-50 grams will even be enough then; given to people with kidney failure!)

What is even worse is that those doses (>200 gram while not on cycle and > 300 grams "on") of Protein (especially fast proteins) have proved to be catabolic! (or when training and/or juicing at least bottleneck gains!) (see second and third Pubmed research)

Morens C, Gaudichon C, Fromentin G, Marsset-Baglieri A, Bensaid A, Larue-Achagiotis C, Luengo C, Tome D. Daily delivery of dietary nitrogen to the periphery is stable in rats adapted to increased protein intake. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Oct;281(4):E826-36

Masanes, R, Fernandez-Lopez JA, Alemany M, Remesar X, and Rafecas I. Effect of dietary protein content on tissue protein synthesis rates in Zucker lean rats. Nutr Res 19: 1017-1026, 1999

Khalid Almurshed, Katharine Grunewald. Dietary Protein Does Not Affect Overloaded Skeletal Muscle in Rats. Journal of Nutrition. 2000;130:1743-1748

Grofte T, Wolthers T, Jensen SA, Moller N, Jorgensen JO, Tygstrup N, Orskov H, Vilstrup H. Effects of growth hormone and insulin -like growth factor-I singly and in combination on in vivo capacity of urea synthesis, gene expression of urea cycle enzymes, and organ nitrogen contents in rats. Hepatology. 1997 Apr;25(4):964-9

What is far more important then amount of protein -->
Proteintype!
Proteinratio!
Times of Intake!

Proteintype
An individual under about the "magic line" of 30 years benefits way more from
Slow Proteins (like Caseinate, Milkprotein and Eggwhiteprotein) then from fast proteins (like Whey or "already" AminoAcids).
Over 30 it is the other way around.
Both benefit much from Fast Proteins (or even better Amino Acids) before lifting and Slow proteins before bed!

Proteinratio!
The body can synthesize it's amino-acids to its need, only thing is it can't synthesize so-called "Essental amino-acids" it is therefore important to have an abundance of these since they tend to bottleneck gains!
Also there is a certain ratio between Amino-acids (some you need alot, some a little) it is just way too "hardcore" to discuss these here (not only due to the difficult theory involved) but also because this is something for "Pros" and will not differ much in an everyday Man training!

Times of Intake!
Now science has taught us that unless you are a stamina-athlete (like cyclist or Runner) that much meals on a day is countereffective and thus bad, it not only suppresses HGH and IGF production but also lowers natural
Life-expectance (Some Lifeextenionists; eat one day, vast another! which has proved to increase health and life-expectancy) but also screws up Insulin-levels (in stamina-athletes it improves it nevertheless).

Giovannucci E, Pollak M, Liu Y, Platz EA, Majeed N, Rimm EB, Willett WC. Nutritional Predictors of Insulin-like Growth Factor I and Their Relationships to Cancer in Men. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2003 Feb;12(2):84-9.

Now more and more Powerlifters and Amateur-Bodybuilders are leaving the traditional approach and following this one since one cannot denie the many (same concluding) researches and real-life results (I too have better results with Three Big meals in a day instead of 7 smaller ones)!

I believe there was an article in the Thinkmuscle 2 years ago about it!

Now there are two subjective times which me and most of you bros agree upon are best for supplying protein!

1) First Thing in the morning (so this is subjective meaning when coming out of bed --> research below proves that Protein on an empty stomach is real anabolic and lowers cortisol while raising HGH 21-fold!).
(both slow proteins and fast proteins are beneficial then but best is for optimal anabolic state --> Naturally Predigested Essential Amino Acids, these are superfast in action and then a slow one like Milkprotein).

2) Before Bed (to prevent catabolizing state and increase HGH-production)
Slow proteins are only suitable for this purpose (you can also mix them with Amino Acids like Arginine and Lysine Pyroglamate which are known to boost HGH while asleep!)

Optional:
Fast Proteins before training (or even better Naturally Predigested Essential Amino Acids; they have not got to be predigested though, although if they are it certainly is a plus!)

Bouthegourd JC, Roseau SM, Makarios-Lahham L, Leruyet PM, Tome DG, Even PC. A preexercise alpha-lactalbumin-enriched whey protein meal preserves lipid oxidation and decreases adiposity in rats. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Sep;283(3):E565-72

Now there is just one timing which have caused controversy among me and my bros:

Most of you follow the traditional... Proteins Post Work-out!
(within 15 minutes).
Now if you are cycling with Insulin then that is a perfect approach!
But if not then the many researches have shown (I also follow this guideline)
that your body after a work-out does not need protein! --> It needs carbohydrates (preferabely 0,8 times in gram per KG bodyweight) within 15 minutes of excercise, but it only needs protein about an hour later (so in the form of a shake or meal) 1 hour After Work-Out:
The most common mistake is to take protein right after workout but this will cause at max 30% of the protein to be used properly the rest will be simply burned or worse stored as fat
Right after Workout the body can be 3 times as anabolic if supplied 0.8 timesin grams your weight in KG of Carbs...
If taken right Post workout; That will cause at max 30% of the protein to be used properly the rest will be simply burned or worse stored as fat
When the GLUT404-bodies in your cell shut down (about 1 hour after training) your body will be craving for proteins and this is the best time of the day to supply them...

Now I know this goes against everything you learned (I did the old approach as well) but with most things in life people do it until they find something better or discover its dangerous, as is with for instance Benzene which for many years people thought was the best Cleaning fluid until they discovered it was very carcinogous...

Here are the studies (there are more just look them up!)

1. Van Loon LJ, Kruijshoop M, Verhagen H, Saris WH, Wagenmakers AJ. Ingestion of Protein Hydrolysate and Amino Acid-Carbohydrate Mixtures Increases Postexercise Plasma Insulin Responses in Men. J Nutr 2000 Oct;130(10):2508-13.

2. Van Loon LJ, Saris WH, Kruijshoop M, Wagenmakers AJ. Maximizing postexercise muscle glycogen synthesis: carbohydrate supplementation and the application of amino acid or protein hydrolysate mixtures. Am J Clin Nutr 2000 Jul;72(1):106-11.

3. Pitkanen HT, Nykanen T, Knuutinen J, Lahti K, Keinanen O, Alen M, Komi PV, Mero AA. Free amino acid pool and muscle protein balance after resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 May;35(5):784-92.

4. Dangin M, Boirie Y, Guillet C, Beaufrere B. Influence of the protein digestion rate on protein turnover in young and elderly subjects. J Nutr 2002 Oct;132(10):3228S-33S.

5. Boirie Y, Dangin M, Gachon P, Vasson MP, Maubois JL, Beaufrere B. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1997 Dec 23;94(26):14930-5.

6. Dangin M, Boirie Y, Garcia-Rodenas C, Gachon P, Fauquant J, Callier P, Ballevre O, Beaufrere B. The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Feb;280(2):E340-8.

Sorry for the Bore!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[kingofmasters]

Very interesting post, but most was way above my head I can honestly admit. But about the thing you quoted. I have seen russian studies posted by doggcrapp(cant remember on wich board) that shows mega high ammounts(cant remember amount but it was around 500g or so) of protein is indeed more anabolic then just high dosages.

So I guess there is no final word about this. One just have to listen to the body and I can honestly say that I gain the best when I eat ****loads of protein

not to mention its better to increase kcal ammount with protein instead of carbs. Atleast if concerned about fat gain cause of proteins ability to increase metabolism and the energy required to use protein as a fuel.

Yes it is the first Pubmedresearch that shows MEGA-amounts can be synthesized, but only for beginning cyclists (why first and second cycle if done properly yield best gains) or when using HGH or other growth factors!

You are right though about using protein as a fuel since 100 grams of protein only yields 55 grams of glucose, meaning less net. caloric intake!

Also studies have shown people after dieting/cutting have easier times keeping the lost fat to come back again if there protein is relatively high!
(But >300 grams is ridicolous for most people)

Greets
Kingofmasters

[Quake]

i think it sucks that people are really buying into the need to eat tremendous, absurd amounts of protein to make gains. i think this was started mostly by the supplement manufacturers. remember, cell tech supposedly increases muscle mass by 333% in one study too so we all better go out and eat buckets and buckets of that.

sheesh...

E.T.

Are you real?

[catabolic kid]

1 gram of protein = 4 calories
600 grams = 2400 cals

I guess it's not that unbeleivable... just drink protein shakes rather then water, probably go through a 5 lb tub a week, and eat a $h!t load of lean meat.

That is my plan!!

[catabolic kid]

if you want to get in alot of protein then make sure you fulfill your protein needs before eating carbs in every meal. Shot for 70-90grams of protein every meal and betwen meal drink shakes. If you start by eating alot of rice, pasta, potatoes ect you wont be able to cram down all the meat required.

Im at 500 right now and I manage that by eating ****loads of meat, but not much carbs(around 200-300grams) and drinking 3-4 tuna shakes a day.

What is the recipe for one of these...they sound great!!

[jgg1221]

so we need to consume at least 3x your weight worth of protein when on igf-1. tell me what your daily menu would look like for this. i am going to be doing this very soon. the first foods that come to mind are lowfat meats, fish, and lowfat cottage cheese (and lots of them). but this is really going to take a lot of time to prepare everything, is it not? costly too.
now i need to go and calm my kidneys down (they're getting a little nervous).

3x - where the hell did you hear that?

[HumanPerfection1]

hard boiled eggs are good cheap protein

[JohnnyB]

3x - where the hell did you hear that?

2.5-3 gram of protein per lb of bw, is best when running LR3, besides it's only for a month. Where there's a will there's a way.

JohnnyB

[JohnnyB]

When I'm using LR3 I get in about 300g of protein in the first 3 -3 1/2 hours of my day

JohnnyB

[catabolic kid]

When I'm using LR3 I get in about 300g of protein in the first 3 -3 1/2 hours of my day

JohnnyB

Is there a cost effective way to eat so much portein rich foods?
What does your grocery list look like?