Supplements? Cortisone? Steroids? What to do?

**boxingfan30** · 11-03-2012, 11:09 PM

Ok, so I have multiple injuries that I am dealing with and I was curious what everyone here thinks.

I started off with a shoulder injury. I had several MRI's, X-rays, etc. They tell me I need to have a Glenoid Osteotomy. The surgery is quite extreme and only 3 Doctors in my state were referred to me to do it. I also have osteoarthritis in my shoulder and apparently at some point I had dislocated it.

My second issue is my back. I have scoliosis. Over the years (now 34) I guess it's hurt my lower back... though it did improve by 3 degrees using a chiropractor as well as his suggestion to do a lot of pull-ups to make both sides of my back stronger to help to even out the muscle on both sides which would help to pull the spine straight.

I've had an MRI and X-ray of this as well. I also have buldging discs, a tear in a disc, a crack in my spine, and arthritis. All of these are in the lower spine.

Thus far I have had 1 cortisone shot. I cannot say however that it did a great amount to help the pain. I don't take pain killers aside from ibuprophen 800 mg's. My job includes sweeping and moping at times and my back kills me the next day. I have also tried the whole GCM combo... it did nothing.

I had a guy who is an amateur BB that Deca does very well to help with injury. While I know it may not "heal" all of this, i'm just looking for some kind of relief.

I spoke to my pharmacist who said she didn't feel like getting cortisone shots at my age was the best idea. I guess because i'm not that old so there's no sense in breaking down more tissue that may ultimately cause more pain.

The pain management doctor said that they can burn the nerves that will lessen the pain.

All of these suggestions seem to be just a band aid for the problem more so than an actual cure.... if there is one that is.

Anyone have any suggestions? I did read the spine injury thread before I posted which gave me a few ideas about posture and such, so that's one thing I will work on.

**lovbyts** · 11-04-2012, 05:22 AM

Lots of post on shoulders. Do a short search.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UJZPlT3hxv8

**boxingfan30** · 11-04-2012, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Lots of post on shoulders. Do a short search.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UJZPlT3hxv8

yeah, i've checked out a few of those... my problem is that I have 3 issues... the biggest being is that the socket is not shaped correctly and lifting has caused it I guess grind down. This also resulted in the osteoarthritis and a tear in the rear delt... that one may heal though.

I don't care what it is. I'm just sick of walking like a 90 year old man. My test levels looked pretty good. My last test level was at 796 total and then 633 recently. The last test I was doing 90 minute sessions on the stationary bike though, so I expected a drop.

I didn't want to have to get into using a Deca or EQ or something because then I have to start stacking the stuff and it's expensive and I just didn't want to have to do that. The collagen synthesis from these drugs is hard to deny as well though.

Not wild about the cortisone shots either if I am to be honest because of the catabolic effects. I don't know about the burning of the nerves that they are talking about and how that might go.

**lovbyts** · 11-05-2012, 01:44 AM

Deca or EQ is not going to change the shape or fix any damage. At best it MAY coushin things a little but it did nothing for me.

My sister and I know others who have had both shoulder joints replaced and she has had one hip done with great results. If Mine was as bad as you discribe I would consider it and even the way mine is I have/did. I sort of with I did already but time will tell.

I have had 3 cortisone shots in my right shoulder and 1 or 2 in my left. You dont want more than 3 but I would give it a try before surgery. They helped some but not more than 50%

You can also look into TB500. Quite a few people are claiming it has helped them a lot. I'm still on the fence.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n-s-TB-500-log

**austinite** · 11-05-2012, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Deca or EQ is not going to change the shape or fix any damage. At best it MAY coushin things a little but it did nothing for me.

My sister and I know others who have had both shoulder joints replaced and she has had one hip done with great results. If Mine was as bad as you discribe I would consider it and even the way mine is I have/did. I sort of with I did already but time will tell.

I have had 3 cortisone shots in my right shoulder and 1 or 2 in my left. You dont want more than 3 but I would give it a try before surgery. They helped some but bot more than 50%

You can also look into TB500. Quite a few people are claiming it has helped them a lot. I'm still on the fence.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n-s-TB-500-log

agree with everything above.

**boxingfan30** · 11-05-2012, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Deca or EQ is not going to change the shape or fix any damage. At best it MAY coushin things a little but it did nothing for me.

My sister and I know others who have had both shoulder joints replaced and she has had one hip done with great results. If Mine was as bad as you discribe I would consider it and even the way mine is I have/did. I sort of with I did already but time will tell.

I have had 3 cortisone shots in my right shoulder and 1 or 2 in my left. You dont want more than 3 but I would give it a try before surgery. They helped some but not more than 50%

You can also look into TB500. Quite a few people are claiming it has helped them a lot. I'm still on the fence.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...n-s-TB-500-log

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I was pretty well set that I was going to have the surgery. I however changed my mind after finding out that I would be a good 6 months out of being able to do anything, and this surgery is effective about 80% of the time. They also will have to remove a piece of bone from my hip to use it as a stabilizer for the shoulder. I wonder if it would hold up with hundreds of lbs of weight. The TB500 sounds interesting. I would have to look into it more and if it's like an HGH I have to be VERY cautious, because there is a history of cancer in my family so I don't know if it affects that or not. I feel like there is no way out of this shit. Very frustrating.

**lovbyts** · 11-05-2012, 02:57 AM

except my spelling.

Also if you do decide to get the cortisone shot it is recommended to not work out for at least 2 weeks due to higher chance of injury.

**boxingfan30** · 11-05-2012, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

except my spelling.

Also if you do decide to get the cortisone shot it is recommended to not work out for at least 2 weeks due to higher chance of injury.

I've only had the 1. I think I was supposed to get 3 more in different areas.

**lovbyts** · 11-05-2012, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by boxingfan30

I've only had the 1. I think I was supposed to get 3 more in different areas.

No you only want the cortisone shot in the exact area where you have the problem (inflammation). You also dont want more than a total of 3 shots in one are due to it can lead to tendon weakness eventually.

When I have gotten them in both shoulders over the years the doctor takes quite a while to make sure to pinpoint exactly where I say the pain is.

**boxingfan30** · 11-05-2012, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

No you only want the cortisone shot in the exact area where you have the problem (inflammation). You also dont want more than a total of 3 shots in one are due to it can lead to tendon weakness eventually.

When I have gotten them in both shoulders over the years the doctor takes quite a while to make sure to pinpoint exactly where I say the pain is.

The problem is that my whole lower back area looks like a balloon on the MRI, so the shots have to be higher and then lower on the spine... that why I asked about Deca because a shot would help my back and shoulder and not just one small area. As it is now I have to wait for about a month inbetween appointments to get any shots for very litte or no relief. I didn't want to have to go through having to supplement test from the suppression of the Deca.

**lovbyts** · 11-06-2012, 12:12 AM

Are you sure they are cortisone shots? The epidural steroid injections for the lower back never did me any good or at least not much and they also need to be localized in the exact area that is inflamed such as the specific disk that is herniated.

If your disk isn't ruptured one of the best things you can do is use Ice frequently at least 20 min on, 20 min off 3x in a row and 3x a day. Anti inflammatory help and so do pain meds until you can get your core strengthened up. It can take a long time. I have been dealing with lower back issues for years and have had 2 back surgeries.

If you use deca you are going to have to use test. That's just how it works or you risk ED. Really the deca did nothing for my back or shoulder issues. I would look into the TB500 before considering using deca. Also look into MSN, alflutop, DMSO and other more natural alternatives but none of them are going to cure/fix you overnight and can takes months if not years.

**boxingfan30** · 11-06-2012, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Are you sure they are cortisone shots? The epidural steroid injections for the lower back never did me any good or at least not much and they also need to be localized in the exact area that is inflamed such as the specific disk that is herniated.

If your disk isn't ruptured one of the best things you can do is use Ice frequently at least 20 min on, 20 min off 3x in a row and 3x a day. Anti inflammatory help and so do pain meds until you can get your core strengthened up. It can take a long time. I have been dealing with lower back issues for years and have had 2 back surgeries.

If you use deca you are going to have to use test. That's just how it works or you risk ED. Really the deca did nothing for my back or shoulder issues. I would look into the TB500 before considering using deca. Also look into MSN, alflutop, DMSO and other more natural alternatives but none of them are going to cure/fix you overnight and can takes months if not years.

Yes, I was given an epidural... but I thought it was to numb my back from the pain of the shot... no?

**boxingfan30** · 11-06-2012, 12:45 AM

and yes, I didn't want to do the deca (unless it was going to help) because I didn't want to have to get into test and all of that. Is there a specific thread or just site where I could read about TB500? What does the TB part stand for for instance?

**boxingfan30** · 11-06-2012, 02:10 AM

actually reading up more on this stuff now. It sounds very interesting. I don't see how long it has been out though and if there are any side effects and what they are if so.

**lovbyts** · 11-06-2012, 05:21 AM

Reading is always good.

**boxingfan30** · 11-07-2012, 01:22 PM

I've done a lot of reading. I don't see much about side effects, does anyone know? I also haven't seen how long it's been around, though I know it was used on horses correct?

**jseek** · 11-10-2012, 06:08 PM

Epidural (esi) -usually is put directly into the region of pain...ie at the level of ur lumbar disc irritation. Usually injected with combinations of short/long acting corticosteroid and anaesthesia/pain killer. So hopefully get short term relief with long turn inhibition of chemical swelling. Might feel stiff initially as I liken it to adding sweeping in an area of swelling...some people get stiff initially, some don't. Effectiveness? Well, patient and doctors are all unique with different problems and talents. And I haven't seen copies of ur MRI or other scans. But if an esi was tried usually wait a month and do another...ditto on a third. Fluid is being squirted into sensitive layers of tissue that separate the swollen disc and nerves...blindly squirted really...so u will know after 3 if effective. Or after 1 if it's worth pursuing more (up to 3).

**lovbyts** · 11-11-2012, 03:31 AM

BTW

I hope you have read or heard about all the cases of Spinal Meningitis due to Epidural injections. I would think 2x before getting one for a while.

**jseek** · 11-11-2012, 07:57 PM

Stability---the ability to control and maintain a normal and hopefully painfree joint position as u move it.
Ur shoulder being flatter and challenging by weakness is not stable. The oa is due to excess slippage caused but inability to control shoulder movement...and it's breaking down faster than u r repairing
The shoulder is very mobile....therefore has inherently loose ligaments. These ligaments can be thought of as passive (ligaments) and dynamic (rotator cuff muscles). The rotator cuff pulls on the passive to tighten or losses as needed so we can move the shoulder
The bony scapular bone called the glenoid is normally small...and is made bigger by the cartilaginous labrum....and then all held together by the previously mentioned passive & dynamic ligaments.
And of course, at rest, in a normal human (sorry)...the scapula is angled so that the glenoid is most importantly tipped slightly toward the head....ok it's basically like a vertical wall, but angled toward the head like a ramp, so that the arm has a bit of a "lip" to hang on...so the rotator cuff doesn't have to be active all the time at rest

So for you...a lot of ur details I couldn't find...age? Lifter or ??goals? Can u move ur arm at all or are you worried about only benching 500lbs...I read the thread but my apologies for the senior moment....
1) scoliosis extending to thoracic region will affect ur ribs , collar bone, shoulder blade position, snd shoulder joint...so I'm at a loss to explain things I don't know about
2) last thing I'd recommend as an active person is the radical surgery you mentioned. But I don't know ur history, exam, or imaging results. Sorry
3) goals???
4) stabilize the shoulder snd back would be a great idea for you....both static positions of back and shoulder...then progress to active movements being sure to be aware of spine and shoulder positions....if popping, cracking, shifting, or wierdness occurs...back off. If not and no pain...progress.
Ie progress static plank exs for core ..snd shoulder strength
Be aware of shoulder width on all exercises....bench...get narrower...will decrease problems. Narrow incline better (old labrador tears won't like flat bench). Narrow grip pulls owns or rowing....curls or push downs with comfortable angles grip bars instead of straight...will help rest shoulders....
Etc

More details gets better responses

**jseek** · 11-11-2012, 08:02 PM

One more thing...if something you eat or inject (deca /test for example helps u get stronger...it will help u stabilize ur weak areas
If something u eat (ie glucosamine etc) helps ur cartilage and ligaments get stronger (think glenoid cartilage, labrum, shoulder ligaments , disks) then that will help.
If something can help spread up ur bodies repair rate....it's good

**boxingfan30** · 11-13-2012, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by jseek

Stability---the ability to control and maintain a normal and hopefully painfree joint position as u move it.
Ur shoulder being flatter and challenging by weakness is not stable. The oa is due to excess slippage caused but inability to control shoulder movement...and it's breaking down faster than u r repairing
The shoulder is very mobile....therefore has inherently loose ligaments. These ligaments can be thought of as passive (ligaments) and dynamic (rotator cuff muscles). The rotator cuff pulls on the passive to tighten or losses as needed so we can move the shoulder
The bony scapular bone called the glenoid is normally small...and is made bigger by the cartilaginous labrum....and then all held together by the previously mentioned passive & dynamic ligaments.
And of course, at rest, in a normal human (sorry)...the scapula is angled so that the glenoid is most importantly tipped slightly toward the head....ok it's basically like a vertical wall, but angled toward the head like a ramp, so that the arm has a bit of a "lip" to hang on...so the rotator cuff doesn't have to be active all the time at rest

So for you...a lot of ur details I couldn't find...age? Lifter or ??goals? Can u move ur arm at all or are you worried about only benching 500lbs...I read the thread but my apologies for the senior moment....
1) scoliosis extending to thoracic region will affect ur ribs , collar bone, shoulder blade position, snd shoulder joint...so I'm at a loss to explain things I don't know about
2) last thing I'd recommend as an active person is the radical surgery you mentioned. But I don't know ur history, exam, or imaging results. Sorry
3) goals???
4) stabilize the shoulder snd back would be a great idea for you....both static positions of back and shoulder...then progress to active movements being sure to be aware of spine and shoulder positions....if popping, cracking, shifting, or wierdness occurs...back off. If not and no pain...progress.
Ie progress static plank exs for core ..snd shoulder strength
Be aware of shoulder width on all exercises....bench...get narrower...will decrease problems. Narrow incline better (old labrador tears won't like flat bench). Narrow grip pulls owns or rowing....curls or push downs with comfortable angles grip bars instead of straight...will help rest shoulders....
Etc

More details gets better responses

well you certainly are full of info lol.

1. Age is 34
2. No, don't care how much I can bench... I just want to be strong for life in general and things that get thrown at you. I like to box for exercise, so I want to be able to do my bag work freely and without pain. I was 145 lbs and I was doing 195 lbs for reps, but one day it just felt like my shoulder was going to explode out of my body... so I dropped the weight back to about 165-170, but it was to late. This was also with a straight bar which I would NEVER use again.
3. My scoliosis was 40 degrees, and I went to a chiropractor 2-3 times a week when I was 16. I was told to do a lot of pull ups to help to strengthen both sides of my back more equally and thus helping to pull my back straight. It did improve from 40 to 37 degrees and the last time I had an x-ray done it was still at 37, so that's good. I was a "slow developer" which caused a lot of my issues, but also the bones were softer and so I was able to get some improvement to my spine. The curve is not considered bad enough to consider surgery which is around 50+ degrees... I didn't want a metal rod in my back anyway though so that's cool.