First Cycle...oral only

[Ottawamuscle]

My first cycle results…

39 years old and have paid my dues in the gym naturally but would be considered as a hard gainer. I am in pretty good shape but stuck. Approx 3 years ago before the gym started I was 270…so I have come a long way naturally. When muscle does come on, it is dense and very lean. Weight at start of cycle was 203.5 with approx 13% - I am 6’2” . Cycle started Sept 2, 2005

My cycle?

Cycle was my first and was all oral - Dianabol , Winny and Anavar .

Dianabol lasted for 5 weeks at 30 mgs per day. Dianabol was tapered on and off (although the off was not as gradual as the on). I found best results when taken all at once in the morning. I tried timing it sometimes two to three hours before a work out but that seemed to make little difference. Milk thistle 2 x a day was added for good measure.

At week 4, I added Winny 40 mg per day.
At week 5, I added Anavar at 30 mgs per day.
Week 6 to 7 will be Winny and Anavar
Week 8 will be just Anavar.

Weeks 1 and 2, I had Clen tapered to and from 80 mgs per day.
At week 5, I added clen again tapered to and from 120 mgs per day. This will run for 3 to 4 weeks (at 40-60mgs / day) strictly for the anti-catabolic properties of clen.
Clomid will start Week 6 at 300 for Day 1 and 50 for approx 10 days.
Given that Winny and Anavar don’t interfere with the natural testosterone production, and the effects of a crash mitigated by the continuation of Winny and Anavar past the Dianabol and the Dianabol cycle was relatively short, I will be using natural products to boost testosterone (6-oxo) as well as the Clomid.

Sides?

Had none. I had no acne, a minor increase in back hair. Liver showed no signs of stress (short cycle). I did not experience puffy muscles. I believe that had I been leaner before the cycle I would have been ripped by the end. Veins were popping and muscle striations could be seen in my shoulders. This may be due to the fact that I am a natural lean muscle gainer (albeit a hard gainer) – not sure just guessing. Headaches from the Clen. Back cramps from the higher doses of Clen

Diet?

Ate clean oatmeal, whole wheat, good veggies, fish, chicken shrimp, steak. One cheat night allowed but it was still good food. Target was 4500 to 5000 cal per day over 6 meals. It’s hard to eat that much especially with the Clen. Averaged 350 g protein, 350 to 400 g carbs and 25 to 80 g good fats per day. About 100 to 150 g protein came from supplements as did a portion of the complex carbs. About 1000 cals came from supplements.

Supplements…Animal Paks (vitamins), SAN MyoDrive Gainer (this crap is amazing Carribean Berry), creatine, glutamine and Taurine for the Clen. 4 to 5 litres of water / day. For you Americans 1 gal = 3.75 litres.

Workouts?

5 to 6 days on 1 to 2 off. No cardio. Average length of a work out was 90 minutes. Chest/ Biceps, Legs/Back, Tri/Calves and Shoulders/Abs were typical splits. Usually 3 sets of 6 to 8 reps…tried 5 of 5 for a while…not convinced of that one.

My results. Measurements taken Oct 5, 2005. 227lbs for an increase of 23.5 lbs (highest during cycle was 230). Body fat basically unchanged at 14%!. Added half inch to each calve, 1 ½ inches to each thigh, 1 ½ inches on my butt, hips plus 1 inch, waist down one inch, arms plus 1 inch each, forearms plus ½ inch each., chest up 3 inches, shoulders up 4 inches.

Overall…I’d say I did alright. Wife likes it! People look at you a who lot differently with veins popping out your arms and shoulders!

Next cycle…Tren /Winny/Anavar or Tren/Primobolan /Anavar or OT for 8 weeks…may Tri-Tren if I can afford it. Have a beach to be on in Feb 06!

[wolfyEVH]

i see no test mentioned.......yet you plan on running tren ....big mistake to run tren (THE most suppressive steroid ) without any testosterone

[Ottawamuscle]

i see no test mentioned.......yet you plan on running tren....big mistake to run tren (THE most suppressive steroid) without any testosterone

Hey thanks for the input. For the record it's trenbalone enanthate I must be mssing something. With the exception of a few (Primobolan ) all steroids will suppress natural testosterone . As I understand it Tren E is less impactive on the natural testosterone than tren acetate.

I was hoping to avoid an aromatizing steroid fro this cycle...are you thinking test in a lower dosage of perhaps 100 mg per week?

[wolfyEVH]

Hey thanks for the input. For the record it's trenbalone enanthate I must be mssing something. With the exception of a few (Primobolan ) all steroids will suppress natural testosterone . As I understand it Tren E is less impactive on the natural testosterone than tren acetate.

I was hoping to avoid an aromatizing steroid fro this cycle...are you thinking test in a lower dosage of perhaps 100 mg per week?

tren is tren....you just have a different ester of the tren which isnt going to change the composition of the parent hormone trenbolone . (so no, its not going to have less of an impact....in fact, it would be worse as if you have problems from running the long estered tren, when you discontinue it, its still be releasing tren for days and days after)....of course testosterone will suppress your natural test, but you're getting your testosterone still arent you??? I would stick with testosterone only. why are you so scared of it???? there are anti-aromatase drugs (liquidex/letro) and SERMs (nolvadex ) that will protect you; if you even need these. testosterone alone is very safe and highly recommended for a first cycle. never run tren without test. you'll thank me later

[Ottawamuscle]

I was getting my details on Tren from Anabolics 2005. Your point does however make sense. I'm not afraid of test...hell I started with D-bol. I was looking for one that gave good results but one where I am able to keep most of it afterwords. Accrording to the Effectivness Chart on this site and others, Tren (as Parabolon) is higher rated that Test. I am envisioning more of a cutting cycle. I am not at the size i want to get to but I want to reach a level of definition before the next bulking cycle.

The versitility of Tren is what attracted me to it...could be used in bulking as well as cutting cycles. To follow your advice would a cycle of Tren E/Test E at 150 pw/350 mgs pw along with the appropriate anti E

[mark956101957]

No flame bro but maybe you should read a bit more. 100mg of test with tren ? Tren is not as suppressive in longer ester form? Should you take test with your cycle? All oral cycles and that 2 at a time? Hang around this forum to get your info. I wouldn't rely too heavily on Anabolics 2005 either. Good luck.....

[Ottawamuscle]

Thanks. I intend to do more reading. What's wrong with Anabolics 2005?. Alot of people seem to do the test cycle...seems a must. If anti e are taken the entire cycle (Nolvadex /Proviron ), a test e cycle be essentially like you were taking completely non-armoatizing gear. Correct?

btw...realy appreciate the candid help.

[testosterona]

that effectiveness chart is natoriously off, just read and askquestions like you've been doing. there's alot to learn

[spywizard]

at your age, with alot of orals.. have you had your cholesterol tested??

typically dbol , var, winnie will mess with it..

good luck..

[Ottawamuscle]

At my age!!! Well I never...! LOL

No never had anything checked. Kept the EFAs, flax and wheat germ intake good. Maybe it helped maybe it didn't...still here.

Question...Test En/EQ. Seems to be a popular combination, I want to create a "cutting cycle" of sorts. low to minimal H2O retention...I want to finsih at about 8 to 10% bf but bigger and stronger than before (yah so do we all). I also want to avoid levels of test that will cause me to rage. I have a family with 3 kids...don't want to snap on one of them.

What can anyone suggest?

[wolfyEVH]

At my age!!! Well I never...! LOL

No never had anything checked. Kept the EFAs, flax and wheat germ intake good. Maybe it helped maybe it didn't...still here.

Question...Test En/EQ. Seems to be a popular combination, I want to create a "cutting cycle" of sorts. low to minimal H2O retention...I want to finsih at about 8 to 10% bf but bigger and stronger than before (yah so do we all). I also want to avoid levels of test that will cause me to rage. I have a family with 3 kids...don't want to snap on one of them.

What can anyone suggest?

cause you to rage??? haha where did you hear this from?

[Ottawamuscle]

I have read references to that in articles and forums where guys felt overly aggresive. Perhaps "rage" wasn't the correct term. In those posts the bros said that they snapped at the stupidest things.

[mark956101957]

Stay away from Tren first of all especially with kids. Least amount of water would be test prop. Mix that with anavar you would have a good cutting cycle plus throw in some clen ? Good luck.

[powerliftmike]

Well, it seems you made some gains that would be quite uncommon for most people of this cycle. I guarantee your liver values and cholesterol are way to high. You need to get a bloodtest.

Did you do any PCT or take any measures to suppress estrogen while on cycle?