02-03-2003, 06:01 PM #1
MacGyver and KunpishunFit's Fina/Winny Cycle journal
Basically MacGyver and I are running the exact same cycle and togethor we thought an interesting journal would be produced if we kept an online journal togethor, showing 2 different people who run the exact same cycle, and our results.
My cycle has began a week or so before MacGyver's. However, We can update and let everyone compare.
My cycle is as follows.
oh, week 1 was cut out for size...but two days in week one with the Fina....to make an even cycle...
by the way Mac...if ya want your cycle in this format...let me know and i'll make it up for ya...
02-03-2003, 06:09 PM #2
ok, i wanted to update this.
Had 3 shots so far..hit a few nerves last night....
Shot 4 today will HOPEFULLY be in the bi, unless i hit another never, then the other quad.
Also, I'm going to be throwing in a lil' test to keep my nuts in check.
Due to some new "problems" My test wont be thrown in for 2 weeks...which is perfectly FINE with me...
I'll run 200-250mg Every Week, just to keep the nuts going well.
Nothing in the way of pumps today, or anything like that. but it's still very early!
02-05-2003, 08:06 AM #3
Today is day 7...
Shot number 4 or 5 whichever one i was talking about above...well I did hit that nerve, so the quad was hit, then I hit the delt again.
My fina shots are not that bad, for me it's more a mental thing..I put on some rock, and just clean, inject, aspirate , and plunge!
Only had 1 bruise so far, and that was the one time i injected to fast...only time blood has come out thus far.
I do not want to hit my cows, simply because of Cardio, So for now I gotta hit the delt again today, then go get some 1/2 needles and try the bi's again.
Other than that, another location on the quads. I can not reach around to get my ass, kinda odd with the dart angle and such, and I like as little pain as possible...
At any rate, day 7 is today, shot will be after a chest work out..so this should be interesting.
I'm not noticing any pumps or anything yet, but then again it is only day 7...I'm hoping soon!
Winny starts in about a week and a half... I may start early however, just to get things moving..maybe as soon as next week (the 9th)
At any rate...You guys let me know whatcha think..and Mac? where are ya buddy?
how's shit looking
02-05-2003, 09:05 AM #4
What'll your diet look like during this time? I've come across some interesting reading lately (i'll try to dig it up) advocating diets that, without winny and clen would rob you of most of your muscle, but with them just peels off the fat. I imagine this is a cycle mostly devoted to hardening up, if not cutting up altogether? Though, it may be damn near impossible to drop weight on fina from the stories floating around here. Anyway, i'd be interested to hear your goals articulated as well as the training and diet strategies you'll be employing to get there.
EDIT: ooops, just saw your other thread...that more or less explains it all.
02-05-2003, 09:10 AM #5Respected Member
Originally posted by BigGreen
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Miller's Crossing
Though, it may be damn near impossible to drop weight on fina from the stories floating around here. .
This compound has totally morphed my body composition. It's simply awesome. Strength gains are amazing as well
Kinup, I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. Good luck on everything. I'd also be interested in checking you diet.
02-05-2003, 09:24 AM #6
This diet is originally from MIKE XXL
I've simplified it for this post...you guys can hit me up via PM with ya email addy's and I'll send the exact copy to ya..here is how it breaks down
BTW - I'm trying to cut..again i dont care about weight gain...so long as body fat is lost..
I weigh 200lbs roughly for this diet...
Day 1: 200G Carbs (divided evenly throughout the day all before 6pm)
1.2G Protien per lb of body weight
Day 2-3: 150G Carbs
1.4G Protien per lb BW
Day 4-5: 75G Carbs (1/2 before workout, and 1/2 after workout) :To keep the insulin levels low throughout the day to shock the system)
1.6G Protien per lb BW
Day 6-7: IF AND ONLY IF I'm not NEAR Ketosis..
50g Carbs Divided through day
1.7 Protien per lb BW
Day 8: 500g Carbs
1G protien per lb BW
Rinse and Repeat...
Last edited by KunipshunFit; 02-05-2003 at 09:28 AM.
02-05-2003, 11:42 AM #7
OK OK, Im here!
I just got done w/ my JAVA test so Ive been busy studyin'.
HallRightyThen! I couldnt wait to stick a needle in me so I jumped the gun a little. i dont know about a chart quite yet cuz Im waiting STILL for my Winny. It should be here this week though.
1 Im gonna go w/ winn through out.
7Weeks 80Tren/50Winn ED
This shouldnt make a big difference in our cycles though.
2. Im going to go EOD this week to try to get a jump on the Tren . I have 4.5ml extra so Im going to use them while i wait for the Winn.
3. If the Winn doesnt come in then this will turn into a Tren only cycle. Better fuckn not though. Legal problems have permitted me from going to Mex.
Im weighn in at 177 first day (2-3-3). Probably at 7-9%Bf. These two weeks Im going to be trying to get the little bit of nasty off my midsection. I took one ml Monday and i will be taking another when I get home today. Theres no pain associated w/ the inj at all. Doesnt leave me sore. In one day Ive already had a 50lb increase in my bench and 100lbs on my squat!!! And im up 13.5lbs @190. The pellet gun is def the way to go. j/k
Now the diet is the hard part. The hardest thing for me is to stick to a diet! Hey Kunip, is that diet the one you sent me? The way you habve it simplified sounds really good. I just dont know if i want to drink all that flaxseed oil. Can someone fil me in on this stuff. Im gonna run a search. Im shooting for 220-250G of Protein/day.
02-05-2003, 12:10 PM #8
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
- Blog Entries
I third the opinion on the Fina and weight loss....I am only on my second week of it, and I'm making gains on calories that are at my maintenance level...it's AWESOME!! I am now part of the Fina Lovers Club!! Good luck K and Mac
02-05-2003, 12:11 PM #9
they are essentially the same diet...i just didnt include the essential fats and others in the one above...
the one i sent you is just more detailed...and it cycles the carbs, it just contains more information about fats, and more detailed foods...etc etc
I'm gonna make up a chart for you...but i'm confused about how your running your shit...
does this look right
Wk 1-7 Fina @ 80mg
WK 1 FINA IS EOD so M W F SU then ED for next 2-7
Wk WHENEVER IT COMES - 7 WINNY @ 50mg ED?
02-05-2003, 12:15 PM #10
Major Pecs - Your the man.
See i dont care about the weight...Shit, I'd LOVE to weigh 190 at 7%...
I just am going to stay off the scale at this point and go by my measurements (i talked a bit about this in my "THE BET" thread it's got a link in my sig if ya wanna check it out)
My average Caloirc intake is going to be roughly
Day 1: 1775 @ 212g carbs
Day 2-3: 1850 @ 153 Carbs
Day 4-5: 1680 @ 70 Carbs
Day 6-7: 1670 @ 57 Carbs
The cal's drop due to carbs dropping.
Cal's on the carb loading day where carbs are 500g are going to be around 3400 (i dont know how i'm gonna eat that much) it may be lower, as i'm not sure of the nutritional break down of the whole wheat pasta...
I'm still trying to add more "solid" foods to my diet, but the days of 4-5 and 6-7 it's hard to get them in when the carbs are 75 and 50 respectively...
day 2-3 i have 100gm of potato every 2 hours
02-05-2003, 05:41 PM #11
yep, i'm stupid
Ok, so i work chest today...and didnt have time to hit my 1cc before i work out...
Well today was a delt shot...
let me just tell you how fucked up it is to give yourself a shot in the delt when your fucking arm wont stop shaking!
I wont be suprised if my whole shoulder turns into a bruise..
the entire delt hurts right now!
I was giving myself the shot...and thinking....ok how pathetic is this, I look like some junkie!!!
02-05-2003, 10:38 PM #12
K, with the Delt shots: kneel down parallel w/ the counter and lay one arm down on the counter perpendicular to yourself. Get it, so that your arm is completely on the counter at rest and relaxing. Thsi is the perfect position to inj. THsi way your muscles not flexing or slightly flexing, you can see everything well, and you can easily pick your spot.
I guess Im running the Trren for 8weeks really. I just dont count this one cause its just a prep week and I wont be getting any results anyways. Then on Monday(hopefully), ED w/both. Week 6 & 7 I plan on going w/ 75mg of Winn.
Now that I have time Im gonna figure my diet out right now so you can critique it.
Last edited by MacGyver; 02-05-2003 at 10:44 PM.
02-06-2003, 10:27 AM #13
Thanx for the advice on the inject....but it wasnt the shoulder I was having prob's with..
it was my pushing arm...the one doing the injecting... I was having to reach across my body, and basically my chest was shaking..then my arm was shaking...i looked like a strung out crack head..ROFL
Mac...I listed up your cycle...Let me know if this isnt right...or if your running anything else, CLEN HYDROXYCUT, etc etc..
02-07-2003, 04:48 PM #14
Dude, your really on the ball! Just drop off the second week and thats it. I think I did the math(booo) wrong.
Winns in!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets get it on!
Nother shot if Tren tday. Im trying to figure my diet out. I posted my first sad attempt in the diet forum. Need help.
02-09-2003, 05:19 PM #15
I took my first shot on Monday, then 1 wed, 1 on fri., and one today (4 in total).
NOw heres the thing. The past 2 days its been hard to get it up. And completely impossible to finish. Today I woke up completely drenched! I didnt put 2n2 together till just now. How is it possible that Im getting these sides already? Its not my imagination b/c I didnt even consider it till just now.
Is this possible?
02-10-2003, 09:12 AM #16
I SWEAR i do some stupid shit sometimes!
1cc of Fina in left quad...(not stupid)
45 minutes of Cardio (not stupid)
3 hours later, doing Legs (THATS STUPID!)
Waking up the next day and not being able to walk...(that's funny) at least my girlfriend thought so!
Anyway, Today is yet another shot of Fina, I gotta go buy some 5/8 needles and start hitting some spot injections, my shoulders and quads need a break!
Sides are starting to show, (achne on shoulders) so i'm looking for great pumps this week. (i talked myself outta starting the winny early) so it wont start until the 16th...
I'll update more lata...for now, I eat!
02-10-2003, 05:51 PM #17
Ok today is the first day of ED everything! Now that everythings in.
Im gonna take the Tren in a few minutes, along w/ the winn. Also Ill be taking a multi and glucosamine-w/MSM to help w/ the joints.
Thsi week I was able to cut up real nice, so obliques and the externals are showing along w/ some good straitions in the delts. Exactly where I wanted to be to start this one off at. Kunip, I got a good feeling about this one.
Yeah Im really gonna have to get some 5/8s also for some spotInjs. My delts are looking kinda nasty w/ that big red bump w/ a red dot in the center of it. People are gonna figure that Im just a dumbass and cant stay away from bees or, the sad truth... Im a juicehead! WooHoo!
02-11-2003, 11:46 AM #18
good luck bro's ill check in for updates
02-14-2003, 10:02 AM #19
*singing voice* Fina is good, Fina is great, Fina I do appreciate...however, I NEED SOME PROP!!* My dick gets like half way up and is like... "um screw you...this is all you are going to get!"
Veins are good, pumps are freaken amazing...Winny starts monday...so it should be interesting....
Will update more lata
02-17-2003, 01:59 AM #20
Ok This is the last day of ED Winn/Tren - Week 1 and Im very pleased!
Strength went up a lot in the last 2 days. Already I have seen noticeable gains. I seem to be retaining just a little bit of water though which is AOK. The Tren is pretty badass. My tolerance level has gone down a bit and Im getting mad quicker again. Thats always a big factor for me since I have a short fuse but I keep a watchful eye on that. I ate like shit since friday though and that really made a difference in appearence.
I am up 4lbs to 181 as of Sunday Evening.
Workouts are great. The famous Pumps are coming a little bit.
Trip to Mex went safe and I scored nicely. got me 6 bottles of TT Prop.
K, are you going to be adding in Prop or not? 200-250mg right? I am going to go w/ 75mg ED but I am going to not stick Tren/Prop on Saturdays so I will get 450mg/week. I really dont want to differ much in our cycles. I might back it down to 50mg/day (300/week) if my aggression gets too high. I think that I will get just as good gains but w/less water retention though so that might be the answer.
02-17-2003, 04:41 AM #21
i started my winny yesterday, and I've been going through some personal shit that's fucked with my head...luckily for me I just pop my cc and hit the gym and most of the time, i'm fine... Fucking women! I swear...
anyway I'm going to be adding in my prop at 250 a week, as soon as it comes, should be this week or early next.
I gotta run, time for cardio..
02-17-2003, 11:33 AM #22Associate Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Knoxville, TN
Hey kunipshun try calf injects, I use a 1 inch on them for spot on the inner calf. Works great! If you have small calves I recommend pulling the skin though to keep it packed it in. Highly recommend that actually .
02-17-2003, 11:53 AM #23
Maybe Mac can use the calf injections...me personally I dont want mine any bigger... My calves are huge as it is....
check out some of my pics to see....but thanx for the advice!
02-18-2003, 12:23 AM #24Junior Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
Great thread guys. Great to follow along. I'm doing prop/eq and about to start winny for the first time in a few weeks. Different I know but this is still interesting.
02-18-2003, 12:55 AM #25
The weight just keeps going up. just finished my workout for the day and Im up to 184.5Lbs. Thats a gain of 7.5lbs in about 2weeks. Not bad but a lot of water. But w/ the water comes the strength. I didnt feel as bloated today though. Whoa that means Im getting close to 190! Never seen the scale say that before!
Sonofabitch my lower back is killing me. I tried to drink a lot of water today but Im thinking that I need even more. Im at about 1.5gallons.
Now that the Trens more than half way kicked in, Im gonna turn the intensity full throttle on the workouts. Im gonna shoot for 190 by Monday.
02-18-2003, 12:40 PM #26
Hey thanks a lot BrLifter, I hope your cycle works out well bro.
02-18-2003, 12:59 PM #27
Weight as of last saturday was 197. Pumps are very nice.
As compared to dbol , they are about the same as per my memory. I hit triceps and had them pump so hard lifting that I had to stop, stretch for 5 minutes, then finish my set!
Have been on Winny now for 3 days. Taste like ass (i'm on Zambon amps) I mix them with water or cranberry juice/grapefruit juice.
I've got 2 veins in each bicep now, as compared to just 1 as before... My shoulders/Arms/Chest FEEL better, but I'm not sure if it's looking better...they definately feel tighter.
My stomach...well it's comming. i'm hoping with this increased cardio that the fat will melt away.
6 weeks left... I do believe I have roughly 20 more days of the Fina..not sure exactly...And i know I have 5 weeks, 4 days left of Winny...
I'm definately experiencing the Fina dick...buuuut the test should be here soon (THANK GOD) man it sucks waking up and not having a hard on.... (morning wood, I use to think it annoying...now I miss it)
I'm hoping to come in around 187 which is 10pounds lighter in 6 weeks, then I have 3 extra days to drop water.... that averages a little less than 2lbs a week, which I feel I can do! and I'm hoping the lil' extra will come from the water...
So that's about it for now...
I must say, I'll be doing FINA again and again!!!! It rocks...
I do believe I'll NOT stop doing cardio this time, and keep my body around this bodyfat i'm at now, at my biggest.
I do believe i'm already thinking about cycle number 3...lol.....
I've done a bulker, this is my cutter, and the next would be both in one...
Anyway...I've gotta run...time to ask a few more questions in the steroid question forum...hehe
02-19-2003, 03:56 AM #28
02-21-2003, 05:03 PM #29
Friday of 2nd week
OK, Everything has completely kicked in. The strength gains are awesome. Last week my last set on bench was 315 for a measly 1.5 reps. Yesterday I repped out 335.
The pumps are fucking beautiful. I get rock hard after one warm up set and Im already startn to sweat (to the oldies). The Winn is hampering my workout though. My rear delts get too sore and tight after 2 sets of any upper body. Im going to bring it down to 25mgWinn/day.
Yesterday I got the first flu-like symptoms from the prop, but nothing unbearable. Its gotten impossible to get quality sleep between the hours of 2-7AM. I get up every 1.5hours, have to piss, and towel off my head and neck.
I tried the calf injections and I must say I dont think Im gonna do it again! OWW! It hurt goin in and it hurt immediately after and still does. Really fucking w/ my walk. This TT Prop didnt hurt before but the past 2 days has been killing me.
Almost to the halfway mark. but I dont want this cycle to end!!!!!!!!!
I fucking love this!!!!!! I willl never do anything else. I might not ever come off either. Im def gonna d-bol bridge for 3 weeks after clomid then jump back on.
02-24-2003, 04:09 PM #30
Start of 3rdweek
Nothing has changed much since the last post. I gained one pound since.
I started to get gyno a little in my right nipp again. I figure its from the test since all the post say that gyno from Tren isnt all to common. Ive taken 40mg of nolvadex the last 2 days and the sensation has subsided. I was really hoping to up the Prop to 100mgED but w/the nolva I might still be able to.
02-26-2003, 10:14 AM #31
I'm a pimp...nuff said...granted i'm a lonely pimp...I need some love'n
Ok enough of that...time for the update.
i'm 29 days into the fina..day 30 is today... So that's 4 weeks n' 2 days. I must say, this shit is awsome. I'm not noticing amazing results...but then again, I may be.... I know that's confusing...I've got more veins up..and the pumps when lifting are comparable to dbol ... So i know it's working. also the pimples/zits are noticeable.
I'm also on day 10 of winny...out of 42...so i'm guessing i've got roughly 15 or so more days of Fina, and 32 more of winny.
At this point I've got 33 days until the bet day. If I had to guess my weight i'd say 197...I dont know..last week I was 196.0 but i feel heavy this week for some reason. Also this fina is hell on my kidneys...i'm drinking over a gal of water a day actually it's around a gal and a half...
At any rate...I'm loving it... the veins are starting to come..and my chest is looking better...at least to me..
Pictures always make me look horrible...and the measurements are what i'm going by now...
Again, i will take pics at the very end..and i'm not going to stop doing cardio this time...even post cycle, and into the winter..i'll keep doing the cardio..and just adjust diet to maintenance level...
I do however feel that I WONT be at my goal of 8% by the bet day...so i'll most likely keep dieting past that day. And just see what happens...I do know for 1 day after the bet, i'm going to binge on apple pie, cake, and ice cream...*i dont even crave it badly now..i just have an idea i'll want the apple pie *
02-27-2003, 03:01 AM #32
Middle of 3rd week
Everything has come to a halt! I was hoping the pumps would get better and the strength would keep coming but the has been no increase of anything. In fact I feel like Im getting smaller. I was hoping that increasing the Prop to 100ED would make a big difference but since then things have only gotten mediocre.
I will give the prop a feew more days at 100 and if there has been no improvemnet then Ill drop to 75.
Im going to try and eat more and hopefully that will solve my problem. I also think that the nolvadex has something to do w/ it. I ve heard it can hinder gains if taken through out a cycle but Im not sure why.
03-02-2003, 03:52 PM #33Anabolic Member
Originally posted by MacGyver
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- under some plywood sheets
Sonofabitch my lower back is killing me. I tried to drink a lot of water today but Im thinking that I need even more. Im at about 1.5gallons.
how long since the first time you noticed it?
03-03-2003, 09:25 AM #34
ah the lower back pains...
man it feels like ya got punched in the back, and every muscle in ya back tenses up, no matter what your doing.
It's like a dbol pump, all over your back. I was fudgen my ex, and just the way i was laying, and holding myself up...my upper back started to cramp...then bam!!! my lower back brings the action to a halt.
It's like my lower back said...ok, you may wanna keep going, but i'm gonna play freeze tag, and well i got tagged!
I'm starting to feel a bit better with mine..
However, I've upped the water to no help...well a small help. My problem is i'm paranoid about it. Honestly it's not excruciating pain, and infact it feels like gas pains...*and granted i've had gas recently * but it's a bit different.
nothing unbearable...just a thing. I'm gonna try to get 2 gals today and see what happens.
I can honestly say the more water i get the less "pain" i feel...so i'm assuming it's my kidneys, and then muscle pumps n' such
03-04-2003, 08:29 AM #35
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
- Blog Entries
Great thread guys...keep it going till the end!!
03-04-2003, 08:46 AM #36
ah the comments
a guy i train with at the gym saw me in a tank a few days ago, and said "your the only person I know who can grow and still diet and lose weight at the same time.." That made me feel so good because he's a freak!
Anyway it's going to be a sad few days...I think i've got like 2cc's of Fina left.. *sniffles* *tear* Man i do so love this shit..
My weight, man i dont know what the fuck is up with my weight, it changes more than most people change there underware!
2 weeks ago i was 196, last week i'm 201....man, it jumps like a mexican jumping bean!
At any rate, i feel fat, and bloated, but i've got 4 weeks left. I'll take pics at the end. If the Fina ends this week, it's all gravy, i was the anxious ass that jumped on it 2 weeks early. I've still got my 4 weeks of winny left
just wanted to update....
Mac - How's ya shit going?
03-04-2003, 06:30 PM #37
Im still experimenting w/ the tren and prop levels. I want to get it just right since Im gonna doit again in about 8weeks. Now Ive narrowed it down to 70-80mg of prop per week. Anymore than that and I dont see any difference except a larger welt in my leg.
THe winn Ive stayed at 25-37mg ED anymore than that and I cant walk more than 40yards w/out my calves burning up like the space shuttle. I think I might just drop it all competely next week. I most likely will keep it out next cycle.
Since the Tren is homemade I cant really be too sure as to how many mgs Im gettin but I upped the Tren to 1.1cc ED. Basskiller has a website about Fina conversionand different links on the matter and one said that theres about a 3% loss in conversion. That seems reasonable so by that Im getting around 91mgs ED.
The sides from the increase are noticeable the first day. I woke up even more soaked then usual. Im talking really soaked. Im about to see what it does for me in the gym in about 20mins though.
Everything is going well w/ workouts. Still getting stronger but the pumps arent all that. Still need to eat more though.
Soreness from prop is getting a little better but more tolerable. ED injections are not a problem whatsoever anymore.
03-07-2003, 10:13 AM #38
Mac what's your weight gain total going into your 4th week now?
03-07-2003, 10:42 AM #39
Well my fina was ran for 35 days....what happend to my other 7 days...well when you bake your fina with an 18g needle and are drawing, you tend to lose some fina... *god i was pissed* i'll forgo baking next time most likely.
I did notice the sweats from the fina...I just tend to ingore them as I'm always sweating...and so i sorta got use to it.
I'm still running on my winny. I'll say i'm noticing joint pain and i'm not sure what it's from.
I'm not terribly disapointed with this cycle...afterall i'm 3 weeks out from the end of my bet and i weigh 200lbs...However my arms are vasuclar and looking better. HOWEVER, i still hold all of my freaken weight around my midsection!!!
The love handles and the lower back are my absolute worst!
I've gotta carb up this Sunday i do believe, so that means monday i'm gonna be feeling bloated n' such...but I'm thinking i'll check the scale this saturday, then not again until the bet day, which will mean 3 weeks without checking it.
I've already decided that i'm gonna continue with the cardio and such after the bet is over, keep right on through summer. I'm not sure what's going on, but the weight is going up...even while dieting!!! It's odd...I'm assuming it's lean muscle..it almost has to be considering the intense cardio i'm doing and the dieting!!
I think i weigh'd in at 202 recently....But i'll check it officially this saturday!
03-07-2003, 12:09 PM #40
MacGyver Hey been following KunipshunFit and your cycle here. Good thread I think everyone really wants to share there experience and have someone to talk with through this experience to bad you cant really just bring it up in general conversation like when your at the gym into your 3 week and your really gettin noticed, and complimented and you cant say shit with out taken a risk of saying the wrong thing to the wrong person and gettin busted! Anyway MacGyver Im also on the simlar cycle on my 3rd week. Feeling really pumped gettin stronger much more intence workouts!!! I would like to know your diet your following and starting stats just to compare with my results. PM me!! Ive really seen an increase in my weight but Not sure how much of that is this Monster DIET Im on (4500 cal./ 104 fat/ 168 carbs./ 505 Pro.) I cut the month before I started this to get myself back in check from the post holiday weight gain which also hurt my strength a bit Intake was ( 2870 cal./ 27 fat/ 159carbs/ 345 Pro.) Droped from 228 to 211lbs.18%B.F. !!!! SO right Now where I stand in the 3rd wk of my cycle TREN alone 100mgs E.D.(im trying to gain lean mass with no bloating and first time on TREN wanted to see how it affected me solo! May Im runin it 100mgs E.D.with Winny 50mgs E.D. straight through to cut for summer) went from 211 to 220 and strength (bench) on the diet was a tough 335 one rep but end of 2nd wk (bench) 335 four reps strong on sixth set So things are going good! I have 3 wks left Only doing 6 weeks! Hope to hear from you and good luck!
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