Red5: The second cycle

**Red5** · 09-01-2003, 07:27 AM

Welcome to my second cycle diary.For those who missed the first (shame on you) here is a brief recap.I am 34, 5'8" and currently weigh 209lb.My first cycle was a ten week Test enan cycle with dbol for the first four weeks.I went from 195lb to 218lb.During the three week clomid period i dropped 5-6lb which was probably just water, then actually started putting weight back on again.I would like to keep on bulking, but at 20% bf and a 40" waist I really need to shed some fat weight first.
So that brings us to this cutting cycle,
Weeks 1-10 Test enan 500mg/wk
Weeks 7-11 Winny 50mg ed
Weeks 12 Clomid 300/100/50
Weeks 1-12 Nolvadex 20mg ed
2weeks clen /2weeks ECA throughout

Training looks like this,
Sun: am cardio 30min light jog, pm chest and bi's followed by 20mins cardio
Mon: Legs and tri's
Wed: am cardio 30mins, pm shoulders and 20mins cardio
Thu: am cardio 30mins, pm back and traps +20mins cardio
Sat: 30mins cardio

The am cardio sessons are not done on an empty stomach.I take my ECA or clen then 30 mins later have a scoop of whey in water then 30 mins later go do my cardio (which is really just walking the dog down the road for half an hour).
As for the diet, well I've always eaten pretty clean so giving up all the junk food is easy.I eat a minimum of 1gram protein per pound of bodyweight, drink a minimum of 1 gallon of water per day and no carbs after 6pm.
Please let me know what you think, too much cardio? not enough.Any diet tips, thoughts on the training split or advice in general please feel free to comment.I welcome any and all input you may care to offer.

**TheJuicer** · 09-01-2003, 11:37 AM

Looking forward to reading your diary..but dont you think you should add some EQ...Just a thought!

**Red5** · 09-01-2003, 11:46 AM

No, this is only my second cycle and I want to stay away from the prop,fina,winny,primo,eq cycles that some feel they need in order to cut.Besides I heard that eq makes you hungry, I cannot think of anything LESS suited to a dieting phase than something that makes you want to eat more!

**TheJuicer** · 09-01-2003, 12:44 PM

I just got done a Test/EQ cycle and man it was better than my sust250 and deca cycle!! I waist didnt go up this time!!! I didnt get the hunger attacks that some get...your last cycle was Test/D-bol..was the test 500mg. also...? If so dont you wanna go up to 600mg? I guess if your just trying to cut..and maintain then thats a good dose!!

**Red5** · 09-01-2003, 01:33 PM

How did that go? How were the gains compared to the test/deca ?
Last cycle was wks1-4 dbol 30mg ed and wks1-10 test enan 500mg.If I can get my bodyfat down to an acceptable level with this cycle I really want to do a test/deca cycle next, probably around April next year.

**TheJuicer** · 09-01-2003, 03:08 PM

On my Sust250 and Deca ...my BF went up a bit but I got it under control after the cycle..on Test/EQ its stayed the same but I eat like a fuckin' hog...I wanna cut my next cycle...But I already have Test/D-bol/Deca...but I still might change it.

**Red5** · 09-08-2003, 08:19 AM

End of the first week and weight is the same at 209lb.Took second shot today and forgot to aspirate , but it went in with no problem.
For the two weeks before I started this cycle I switched my exercises around.I have been using the same routine doing the same exercises with the same equip for a long time, so I figured I would change it up for a couple of weeks.I used machines instead of the free weights I would normally use.I did chest yesterday and went back to my normal routine and I was so weak, my bench must have dropped 20lb easy.Where I was getting 10-12 reps easy before, I was struggling to make 8.I know people say you should vary your workout now and then, but I hate feeling so weak when I switch back.

**Red5** · 09-15-2003, 07:07 AM

End of week two and weight has gone up, now 211lbs.I am a little suprised by this as I have been dropping the calories over the last few weeks mostly from cutting out the carbs.Only had one cheat day on Sat when we went to Disney.It's difficult to eat well in the parks, but I had a good breakfast, subway for lunch, a sugar free smoothie in the afternoon and then we went to outback for dinner.As it was early (before 6pm) I had the cheese fries, grilled chicken with cheese and bacon and some steamed veg.I dont think that will have hurt me too much.
Happy to report no sides from the clen .I take 50mcg in the morning and 50mcg 1hr before workouts.Doesn't seem to make me sweat as much as the EC.
Got a couple of zits though, one on the corner of my mouth and one on the inside of my thigh right at the top and my underwear was rubbing on it, hurt like hell.
Can't actually see any results yet, but I'm so fat right now I could probably lose 20lbs and still not see my abs.

**Red5** · 09-18-2003, 07:35 AM

I have slowly been cutting back the calories, little by little every week (actually started a couple of weeks before the cycle) and am now down to around 2000 cal a day.The last to go was sugar in my tea and coffee and the milk from my shakes.Diet looks like this 5 days of the week,
6.00am take clen /ec
7.00am one scoop whey mixed with water
7.00-8.00am cardio (walking the dog)
8.30am bowl of oatmeal, one scoop whey mixed with water.
11.30am omlette, one whole egg and three egg whites with a couple of slices of turkey and some cheese.Take clen/ec
12.30-14.00 weights followed by 30mins cardio.
14.00 two scoops whey in water followed by a banana or gatorade.
15.30 four frozen chicken tenderloins (about the same as a large breast)
18.00 chicken/pork/beef and veg.
21.00 one tblsp nat. peanut butter and one scoop whey mixed with milk.
Anyone have any thoughts on that? Is 2000calories too much/little? I don't want to drop any more as I'm afraid of losing muscle.I will eat like this for a week or two and see what results I get and take it from there.
Workouts are going really good, strength is the same now as when I finished my last cycle and going up.Only problem I'm having is lack of sleep.I go to bed around 22.00 and fall asleep after an hour or so, but then I wake up 2-3 hours later to use the toilet and just cannot get back to sleep again.I lay there the rest of the night tossing and turning and will finally get back to sleep an hour before I have to get up.

**Red5** · 09-22-2003, 10:14 AM

Wow, the week before last I gained 2lbs so imagine how suprised I was to find I'd lost 6lbs last week.Weight is now 205lb, strength is still going up so hopefully not too much of the weight lost was muscle.
Did 4th shot today and hit a vein for the first time ever.Good job I aspirated.
No sign of my abs yet, but I have lost an inch off my waist.

**TheJuicer** · 09-22-2003, 10:27 AM

Good job bro...so your down to 39' now? Do you think that a Test cycle is a good cycle to cut on? How have alot of gear but I'm not sure just what I wanna run yet..

**TheJuicer** · 09-22-2003, 10:28 AM

What I ment to say is I have alot of gear!!

**Red5** · 09-29-2003, 12:56 PM

Four weeks gone already, lost 3lbs last week and another inch of my waist.Now at 202lb and 38", but better yet is it's actually starting to show now.When I tense my abs now you can actually see it, thighs are showing some definition as well.I would guess my bodyfat is around 15% now.All this and I'm still as strong as I've ever been.
My goal for this cycle is to lose as much fat as possible while keeping as much muscle as possible.I don't have any numbers I'm trying to reach when it comes to weight loss, ie I want to lose 10-20 or whatever lbs, but if I could get to 10% bf or lower I would be very happy.I wasn't sure if that was possible when I started, but having seen my results so far only a third of the way into this cycle, I think I've got a pretty good chance of doing it.Only snag is we are going away for a week to North Carolina, hiking through the mountains, white water rafting that sort of thing.There is going to be loads of oppurtunity for cardio, but I'm a bit worried about missing a week of weights.I guess I will have to get back to basics so to speak, lots of push ups, pull ups on a tree branch.Maybe find a tree trunk I can throw over my shoulder for sqauts.

**Red5** · 10-05-2003, 05:53 PM

5 weeks gone and am down to an even 200lb and 37" waist.While I am pleased with those results so far, my strength is starting to go down which is worrying me a little since i'm going away for a week next sat and doubt very much if I will be able to get any kind of workout.Also starting winny next week, never tried it before so am really looking forward to seeing what it can do for me.Also, I have been taking glucosomin/chronditin in preperation for the sore joints that winny can bring on.

**Red5** · 10-20-2003, 09:41 AM

I forgot to update before I left for N.carolina.Last friday 10/10 I weighed 198lb.Didn't get to workout at all last week, but still got plenty of exercise white water rafting, hiking etc.Diet went out the window, I tried to eat as well as I could, but gave in to fast food a few times.Got home a couple of days ago and couldn't wait to get back in the gym.Did chest yesterday and was suprised to find that I didn't really lose any strength.After seven weeks weight is now 197lb and waist is 36", with just four more weeks left I don't think I will achieve my goal of 10% bf.Maybe trying to lose 10% bf in 12 weeks was unrealistic, I'm not sure if I will even have a six pack by the end of this cycle.However I am looking a lot better thanks to the extra definition.Delts, traps, lats and thighs all look bigger, with muscle seperation that was never there before.

**Red5** · 10-27-2003, 08:21 AM

8 weeks gone, three more to go.Weight 194lb.Been on winny for two weeks now, but can't say I really notice anything.Diet wise I am almost zero carbs, just a bowl of oatmeal in the morning and gatorade after workout.About 60 grams total although that's not counting any carbs that might come from veg.Dropped a few more calories by switching to fat free cheese.Strength is good for first couple of sets, but then quickly run out of steam.Have to drop the weight a lot in order to get a decent amount of reps.

**Red5** · 10-30-2003, 02:40 PM

Did legs today.Normally I do squats as my first leg exercise, but I've never liked doing them and never really feel my thighs working, just my lower back and glutes.Last week I started doing front squats to try and hit my quads more effectively.Well I must be doing them wrong because, after a warm up with just the bar for 12 reps and then with 25lb each end for 12 reps, once I start putting some more weight on the bar it just keeps slipping off my shoulders and down my arms.So I switched back to regular squats, but I could feel a pump in my legs already just from those two warm up sets.If I could do them with some decent weight I think my thighs would really start to grow.
Upper abs are starting to show themselves now, but only when I tense.When I stand relaxed you can't see them at all.Also noticed for the first time that I have those side abs that run diagonally down from the side of the upper abs into the middle of the abs.If I could just get rid of this fat hanging around my stomach and sides.

**Red5** · 11-03-2003, 08:32 PM

Did last shot on sunday (sniff).I don't particually like the injections, like some do, but I was suprised to find myself feeling sad that it was my last shot.I wanted the cycle to continue.
Weight is the same as last week, 194lb.I was a little worried about this at first, but I am seeing more defiition so I know I'm still on track.Just proves what everyone says about not relying on just the scales, but what you see in the mirror.
Can't really say I noticed anything from the winny.It is ** 50mg tabs taken once daily.Maybe 50mg isn't enough, maybe my bodyfat is still to high to notice the hardening effect or maybe my calories are to low to notice any strength gains it might give.I've got two more weeks left so it might still kick in.

**Red5** · 11-09-2003, 03:52 PM

This last week has been really tough.I have been finding it harder and harder to get out of bed in the mornings for my am cardio.So I missed a couple of am sessins this week which wouldn't be that bad, but I'm also slipping more and more from my diet.Friday I had fried hash browns and pancakes for breakfast, then a bag of almond M n M's at the movies (watched Matrix Revolutions.Rubbish, worst of the three).Then in the evening I was craving a beer like you wouldn't believe.I haven't had a drink in months, so after a couple of cans I was buzzing.I had dinner around 7pm and had a loaded baked potato with my steak.
Sat wasn't to bad apart from the pizza in the evening, only had one slice though.Protein for the day was extremely low, maybe 100-120grms.I was dreading get on the scales today after my weekend blowout, but was suprised and relieved to find I'd lost another pound bringing me down to 193lb.
With one week left I know I'm not going to reach my goal of ripped abs, I won't even have a six pack, but I am looking 100% better than when I started.Just hope I can stay this way when I come off the diet, I'm afraid that when I start upping the calories that i will just ballon up again.

**Raven8264** · 11-10-2003, 01:09 AM

Nice job!

I've seen too many guys lose motivation after doing a cycle and give up half their regimen. Knowing you're not getting as much benefit out of working out and doing cardio without aid of a cycle can make it easy to give up your daily routine, and I see you heading in that direction.

If anything, post-cycle is even more important because that's when YOU decide how much of those gains (and in your case, fat loss) you keep, so don't give it up! Your metabolism is running in high gear, so don't pour water on it and extinguish that fire inside that's keeping you from gaining the fat back.

You're doing an awesome job. I just don't wanna see you a month or two from now regretting how you lost x% of your progress because you didn't keep going. Just keep in mind how important post-cycle is, even if you don't see the rapid results now! If you know there's a movie you might see (like Matrix), force yourself to go run early that day before you do, or you won't see the movie since you know you'll have all that popcorn and soda. You gotta find a balance.

Good luck.

**Red5** · 11-10-2003, 10:34 AM

Thanks for the support.You're right, my motivation is definately lacking.I stayed in bed this morning instead of getting up and going for a run.I plan to back off for a couple of weeks during pct to hopefully help recovery, then I will continue with my morning runs, but drop the cardio after my weight workouts.Depending on my weight and definition I will adjust diet accordingly either adding or dropping carbs as needed.

**Red5** · 11-16-2003, 02:28 PM

This last week has been the worst yet in terms of diet and cardio.I am really finding it hard to keep on the diet and getting up for my morning cardio.Doesn't seem to have hurt me to badly though, weight today 190lb.
Two weeks since last shot of test enan and took last winny tab friday so I will be starting clomid tomorrow along with zma.I found this really worked last time, it felt like I was back to normal within a couple of weeks and I didn't suffer any of the post cycle depression that I hear so many talk about.Also continuing with clen for two more weeks.
Changing from a four day split to a three day in order to get one more day of rest during the week which should help recovery a bit.Did chest, shoulders and tris today, going to do back and bis tue and legs thu.
The winny didn't really do much for me in terms of muscle hardness or strength, but I am noticing a lot of vascularity in my biceps, chest and delts.Also, got a few zits on my chest and shoulders, but I'm only talking about 5-6 at any one time, nothing really bad.Didn't have any joint pain which was my biggest concern about taking winny and didn't notice any hairloss either.Overall a little dissappointing.

**Da Bull** · 11-16-2003, 06:33 PM

I think you did well,sorry to get in so late on your thread,these things get bounced around so much, hard to keep up with the threads.have one question..did you go 7-11 on winny?And if you did why?Other than that,CONGRATS bro..All the best..DB

**Red5** · 11-16-2003, 07:54 PM

Cheers DB.
Yeah, I ran the winny weeks 7-11.I did this so that I would be anabolic right up to the start of cloimd, instead of going those two weeks after last test enan shot with nothing.And I only ran it 5 weeks because of liver toxicity.

**Da Bull** · 11-16-2003, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Red5

Cheers DB.
Yeah, I ran the winny weeks 7-11.I did this so that I would be anabolic right up to the start of cloimd, instead of going those two weeks after last test enan shot with nothing.And I only ran it 5 weeks because of liver toxicity.

was just asking,I thought maybe if you ran the winny 1 more wk,then started clomid you might have gotten a slightly better result..JMO..all the best..DB