My brief history & AAS cycle progress

[Darfus]

History: I did special forces in the military from age 19-23 (currently age 25), joined at 6'1", 150 lbs, starting lifting for the first time in my life and eventually made it to 212 lbs with a 7-8% body fat after a few years. I had shoulder surgery and was addicted to painkillers and therefore lost most of my muscle. Also, I got advice from a psychiatrist to let all my muscle go and learn to love myself because I had body dysmorphia and not let myself get buff again until I achieved that. I tried it during this last year, it didn't work, and what I just explained is where I stood 4-5 weeks ago.

After a period of many months of constantly sleeping, barely drinking water or eating (<20g protein a day), I started eating right, force feeding myself all day and lifting.

Start of 12 week cycle: 178 lbs. 6'1"

Cycle: 750 Sus week 1 & 2 then 500mg, 250mg or 375mg (depending on how much I have left, it the vial ends up being short, like less than 10 perfect milliliters I will cut the dose down) continuing until end of cycle.
I am waiting Dbol at the moment, should arrive soon, then 20mg a day for 4 weeks. Edit: Dbol arrived and I took it for 4 weeks.
.5mg or 1mg of Liquidex every other day. I'm prone to GYNO so I've upped my dose to 1mg after the first two weeks of .5mg.
.1 of Dutast per day.

F-arms=Forearms
CalvesG=A calf workout using only standing targeting the Gastrocnemius.
CalvesS= A calf workout using only seated exercises targeting the Soleus.
Calves=A calf workout using both muscle groups.

Day Workout
1 Thighs/Calves <=== 178lbs
2 Back/Bis/F-arms/Abs
3 Rest
4 Shoulders/Tris
5 Thighs
6 Rest
7 Rest
8 Chest
9 CalvesG/Abs
10 Back/Bis
11 Shoulders/Tris/CalvesS/Abs
12 Rest
13 Thighs/Abs
14 Chest/Abs
15 Back/Bis/F-arms
16 Rest
17 Shoulders/Tris
18 Thighs/CalvesG
19 Back/Bis/F-arms
20 Rest
21 Rest
22 Chest/Tris/Traps <====== 200.0lbs
23 Abs
24 Back/Biceps/Forearms/Calves
25 Chest/Triceps/Shoulders/Abs (Felt really strong! I think the Sustanon is finally kicking in full force)
26 Rest
27 Rest
28 Thighs
29 Abs
30 Rest
31 Rest
32 Chest
33 Back/Biceps/Traps
34 Rest
35 Shoulders/Triceps
36 FOOD POISONING SICK \/
37 \/
38 \/
39 \/
40 \/
41 \/
42 \/
43 Chest
44 Back/Biceps/Calves
45 Rest (still felt weak, needed some rest after the 2 lifting days)
46 Rest
47 Thighs/Traps
48 Chest
49 Abs
50 Back/Biceps/Forearms/Calves
51 Shoulders/Traps/Triceps <======== 207.5lbs
52 Rest
53 Chest
54 Rest
55 Thighs/Traps
56 Biceps
57 Back/Forearms/Calves
58 Chest/Shoulders/Triceps <======== 211lbs. (14 pounds to go, about 3-4 weeks left)
Weight: Day 1 was 178. Currently (written day 54) a 30 pound weight increase after 54 days or almost 8 weeks. Roughly 4 weeks left if I don't cut the cycle short because of GYNO. More on that down below under "notes from day 53." Remember, my max is about 215 so I have solid muscle memory up until that point. I'm sure my gains will fly up to there, then maybe slow down a bit. I know many of you think this is a wasted cycle, and maybe so, but it's not hurting me. Perhaps just wasted a few bucks. At the least I will have all of my old strength and mass return in the 3 months I'll be using steroids before I PCT. To clarify, steroids are just helping me get to where I used to be, and contrary to the beliefs of a few of the posters here, beyond my biggest and on my way to my goal which is 225-230 on THIS cycle. (would be a total gain of 47 pounds, spread over 10-12 weeks I think it may be possible because I was severely malnourished the year before I cycled this time).

BREAKDOWN:
Chest days: 8
Back days: 8
Thigh days: 7
*I am going to be weighing myself roughly every week perhaps on Days 1,8,15,22,29,36,43,50, etc.*

I'm open to criticism, but allow me to note a few things I've observed thus far:

1)Not enough chest days, especially due to the fact that it is smaller in proportion to the rest of my upper body muscles.
2)Some days I couldn't make it to the gym which results in some body parts falling behind.
3) Some 'back' days I did shrugs but never really crushed them like the days I wrote "Traps."
4)I tend to not workout a muscle until it's fully recovered and the soreness has dissipated.
5)Sometimes, even with a high calorie diet ( as you can tell by the amount of weight I'm gaining ), I am sore for 5-7 days after the lift due to a very high volume and intensity during my lifts. For example, the last time I lifted Calves was 6 days ago and I'm still sore.
6)There are long periods of neglecting Abs, however, there were a few instances I forgot to write it down after I did them at home, not at the gym.
7) I almost always go to muscle failure on each set. I have years of lifting experience at this point, and I know that intensity pays off. DEFINITELY!

Notes from day 22:
Good gains in thighs, forearms, and upper arms.
Decent gains in delts, calves, lats and abs.
Slow gains in chest and traps. I would like the suspender part ( the part that comes over your trap onto your chest on both sides of your neck) of a wife beater (ginny tee, muscle shirt) to be taut in the air between my trap and chest when this cycle is over. So I should start focusing on traps and chest. This is one of my goals for this cycle.


Notes from day 25:
I felt strength rocket this week, especially today. After 2 high-calorie rest days my strength went up tremendously. Starting to feel the euphoria of steroids. It isn't better than prohormones yet, but I think I'm just getting started (mainly because of the long acting esters in Sustanon).

Notes from day 53:
I got sick, had food poisoning for like 5 days which stunted my growth BIG TIME. I lost like 10 pounds (mostly water, hydration) and it took me a full week to recover (start eating full amounts and getting high calorie days in like 6/7 days a week). Big growth in my deltoids, arms, lats/traps and thighs. Chest still lagging behind but strength is increasing lots. I also got gyno around day 30 so I cut the Liquidex and started Letro. I tapered up the Letro from .25mg a day to 2.5mg a day and am waiting for symptoms to subside. I did NOT stop the sustanon/dbol cycle. If Letro doesn't work in the next 2 weeks I am going to cut the cycle a few weeks short.

I will edit this post every day or so to keep you all informed depending on how many replies there are.

[Darfus]

Please give opinions and advice so I can optimize. Forgot to mention, I used prohormones in SpecOps a few times to help with gains and strength for my job.

[Bigd89]

Imagine what you would be weighing now if you started at your heaviest body weight?? 225-230lbs probably..

Would have made alot more sense, waste of a cycle IMO.

[Darfus]

Yea you're right. My buff friend/room mate said the same thing. It was a definite rush in my opinion as in yours, however, with a lot of dedication and effort I might be able to hit 225 on THIS one. If not, then maybe my next cycle months later. How long would you wait between the END of PCT and the first day of a new cycle?

[Windex]

Yea you're right. My buff friend/room mate said the same thing. It was a definite rush in my opinion as in yours, however, with a lot of dedication and effort I might be able to hit 225 on THIS one. If not, then maybe my next cycle months later. How long would you wait between the END of PCT and the first day of a new cycle?

You are not gaining 37 pounds sorry to burst your bubble. People are happy if they gain 15-20 lbs and keep 10 of it. I would have used Armidex or Aromasin over Ldex. and you need to be taking your AI every other day, not measure it out on a weekly basis. Finally, bloodwork is the perfect way to tell if you can cycle again. Without bloodwork : Cycle + PCT = time off minimum.

Not really sure why your doing a 10 week cycle with Sustanon due to the presence of long esters. 12-14 weeks would have been more optimal. However, assuming your doing everything else correctly, this is how it would be:

10 Week Cycle + 2 week pre-pct + 6 week pct = 18 weeks before you can again.

[Darfus]

You're right, it is going to be more than 10 weeks. It will be 10 weeks of sustanon pinning then the 3 weeks after as the long esters will still be active. So it will end up being 13 weeks before I start my nolvadex . I have DBol , and already missed the frontloading opportunity because it is lagging in the mail, so when do you think I should take it? prolong my cycle and start taking it 2 weeks after last pin or buff up 4 of the weeks during sustanon use?

Are you saying the total is 18 weeks after my pct ends until I can again?

I am going to try and gain 37 pounds! Even if you think I'm destined to fail it's a good goal and will push me harder (workout intensity + diet). I have hope, at the least. I do take my Ldex EOD.

I will be getting bloodwork done at the end of my PCT.

so 6 week pct huh?

IS that 6 weeks of nolvadex? 40mg Every day for 2 weeks then 20 mg every day for 2 weeks then 10 mg every day for 2 weeks?
I am also taking a cortisol blocker during PCT and I have HCG on hand. When do you personally recommend I take the HCG? PCT or the last few weeks of my sustanon?

[Darfus]

My goal would be a 47 pound gain, not 37. 178 to 225. Already gained about 22, but some of that weight is digestive weight (from eating so much) and water weight (from hydrating).

[terraj]

First cycle right?

If so, you have wasted it, could have made it back to your old body weight with a bit of will power.

Lifting 3-4 weeks only before starting a cycle......???

I am trying not to flame you here.....let me just say this- Read before you make your next move

[terraj]

Oh wait...

Bo?

[Darfus]

I wrote out my cycle multiple times before I started pinning, I am just asking his personal opinion to get multiple opinions.

[Darfus]

What is BO?

[Windex]

You're right, it is going to be more than 10 weeks. It will be 10 weeks of sustanon pinning then the 3 weeks after as the long esters will still be active. So it will end up being 13 weeks before I start my nolvadex . I have DBol , and already missed the frontloading opportunity because it is lagging in the mail, so when do you think I should take it? prolong my cycle and start taking it 2 weeks after last pin or buff up 4 of the weeks during sustanon use?

Are you saying the total is 18 weeks after my pct ends until I can again?

I am going to try and gain 37 pounds! Even if you think I'm destined to fail it's a good goal and will push me harder (workout intensity + diet). I have hope, at the least. I do take my Ldex EOD.

I will be getting bloodwork done at the end of my PCT.

so 6 week pct huh?

IS that 6 weeks of nolvadex? 40mg Every day for 2 weeks then 20 mg every day for 2 weeks then 10 mg every day for 2 weeks?
I am also taking a cortisol blocker during PCT and I have HCG on hand. When do you personally recommend I take the HCG? PCT or the last few weeks of my sustanon?

All water weight will automatically be lost in PCT just how it is, unless your going for a bloated look. 3 weeks is too long. You need to start PCT 14 days after last Sustanon injection. 47 pounds is not possible in 10 weeks it's not physically possible.

Yes 18 weeks from the last day of your pct is when you could cycle again and yes you need a 6 week pct.

No you need more than just Nolvadex for PCT and no you cannot get bloodwork done right after PCT you need to wait atleast 4-5 weeks after PCT to get bloodwork done.

Seems like you should have done a lot more research before cycling, very uninformed.

It's too late to incorporate dbol.

[smashingbox]

Windex please provide insight why you advise arimidex over Ldex, and the difference between them?

[Darfus]

Windex, realize that just because somebody asks a question doesn't mean they don't know an answer. It can be misleading when one assumes this.

[Windex]

Windex please provide insight why you advise arimidex over Ldex, and the difference between them?

I don't think either is better than the other and I would probably choose Aromasin before Armidex or Letro. This is because Aromasin inhibits rather than destroys Test to Estrogen conversion. So when coming off Aromasin you don't have an estrogen spike that can happen with Armidex. However, if Armidex works for an individual no reason to fix what isn't broken. There was a poll thread recently about which AI people use, Aromasin was most popular it seemed - doesn't necessarily mean it's the best but if on average Aromasin is most used and on average it works the best for people I would just suggest the status quo.

[smashingbox]

Didn't ask about aromasin , you recommended arimidex over Ldex, what is the difference?

[Windex]

Didn't ask about aromasin, you recommended arimidex over Ldex, what is the difference?

Anastrozole = Liquidex = Armidex. I think I thought that he said he was using Letro as an AI not Ldex. I was on the forums at 5:30am, probably not a good idea in the future, making dumb mistakes O_o.

[Darfus]

I am on Ldex, aka liquidex aka liquid arimidex . Not on letro. I do have it on hand, however, in case of gyno, but I'm not using it at the moment.

I started incorporating more chest days. I did some reading about people trying different things out to grow their chest. I looked it up and am curious about it because it is my #1 weak spot. I train it hard, like everything else, but it just doesn't seem to grow like everything else. So, instead of once a week with extremely high volume and intensity on that day, I am going to do less volume more frequency. Will be lifting chest every 3 days and will let you know if it works.

It sounds like overtraining to me, but then I think of Arnold how he did a Mon Wed Fri chest/back routine. He MUST'VE had sore pecs on wednesday and friday when he lifted chest. However, that routine is what got him to a 39" chest to a 58" chest. 19+ inches. I'm about half way between those at the moment.

For clarification, I won't be doing back on my chest days like Arnold. Just lifting chest every 3 days along with some other push muscles (deltoids, triceps).

[smashingbox]

Dbol and genetics got Arnold that chest. Bro it can be a big mistake to copy supposed routines that pro BBs did. I like you have a weak point in my chest. I have grown it somewhat but it does lag behind the rest. My advice, number 1 thing is mixing it up. Sometimes less is more, lift heavy but once per week, really give it a chance to grow then hit it heavy again. Max OT gave me best results. Just my .02

[Darfus]

Ha! MAX OT huh? When I was 6'1" and a scrawny 150 lbs entering basic training, that was the first thing I tried. The entire max-ot program. It worked for some strength but looking back I don't think my diet was right because I didn't grow much at all. Maybe a few pounds, like 5, over a few months. Terrible. Now I'm gaining a pound a day for the first 22 days! Well I can't really compare those two things, but anyway, it's nice to see max-ot again. It was the first thing that taught me about moving heavy weight=muscle mass.

That is what I usually do, except much higher volume than max-ot. I usually crush the chest one day, and maybe triceps with it, and it's sore for 3-5 days then I do it again. My strength rose quickly with this technique but it still lagged behind everything else. So, now I am doing high volume still but I curtailed it a little bit, and more frequency, so every 3 days instead of every 5-7 days. If arnold did it 3 times a week and grew and it wasn't overtraining, then I can surely do it once every 3 days (slightly more than twice a week, because it's 2 times a week with an extra day of rest before the next 2 days of rest then another workout, if that makes sense) and grow. Especially on sustanon .

I agree it can be a big mistake to read another human being's workout routine, regardless of how famous or successful they were.

I read that keeping your shoulders back is really important to isolate the chest moreso and take some deltoid/tricep load off. As opposed to your shoulders being forward thus putting more load on tricep/deltoid heads (front/lateral).

[smashingbox]

I wouldn't put too much faith into 'what Arnold did'... where did that info come from? His Encyclopedia of BB? It was ghost written... which I assume means someone else wrote it and gave him a large percentage of the sales to put his name on it. There have also been large discrepancies in different 'writings' of Arnold, where he seemingly contradicts himself... anyway, I dont have any specific examples at hand, but have been told the Encyclopedia is in contrast to his earlier training principles.

Max OT helped me break a plateau, and I found that it has helped more than any high volume training, but we are all different. One thing I found with chest was that doing a heavier weight, and less range of motion, i.e. not all the way down to the chest helped. Now this is true particularly for skinny people with long arms, when you think about it long arms = far greater range of motion, and once the elbows bend down lower than the back, it is mostly shoulders and triceps... unlike a stocky person who has a larger chest and shorter arms, for them touching the bar on the chest doesnt require the elbows to be as low and they benefit from less range of motion.

Anyway... if you have found something that works stick with it!

Good luck with the rest of your cycle bro.

[Darfus]

I wouldn't put too much faith into 'what Arnold did'... where did that info come from? His Encyclopedia of BB? It was ghost written... which I assume means someone else wrote it and gave him a large percentage of the sales to put his name on it. There have also been large discrepancies in different 'writings' of Arnold, where he seemingly contradicts himself... anyway, I dont have any specific examples at hand, but have been told the Encyclopedia is in contrast to his earlier training principles.
Max OT helped me break a plateau, and I found that it has helped more than any high volume training, but we are all different. One thing I found with chest was that doing a heavier weight, and less range of motion, i.e. not all the way down to the chest helped. Now this is true particularly for skinny people with long arms, when you think about it long arms = far greater range of motion, and once the elbows bend down lower than the back, it is mostly shoulders and triceps... unlike a stocky person who has a larger chest and shorter arms, for them touching the bar on the chest doesnt require the elbows to be as low and they benefit from less range of motion.
Anyway... if you have found something that works stick with it!
Good luck with the rest of your cycle bro.

1) Do you get good results only doing 6-8 heavy sets of a major muscle group? What kinda split is that for you? Like 3 flat 3 incline 2 flyes? And you're staying around 4-8 reps until muscle failure?

2) So true with the long arms thing. I notice in the gym alot of buff guys with massive pecs don't even do full range of motion regardless of their arm length. personally, I feel the pecs get worked more in the bottom 75% of the movement, so excluding the top 25% or the locking out portion. I think locking out is triceps, and the first 2 inches above your chest are front delts. Interestingly enough, I started doing this 2 chest workouts ago prior to me reading what you had to say about it. Also, have you noticed a lot of people doing their warm up sets with extremely short ranges of motion? Usually it's the jacked guys... Hmm.. Maybe there is something to this. Do you mean excluding the 2 inches adjacent to your chest and excluding locking out?

Thoughts everybody?

[smashingbox]

1) I got good results with 9 sets per major muscle group, 3 exercise x 3 sets. I also made sure to do keep my triceps workout well away from my chest workout, so that my triceps were fresh when I worked them, and they were fresh the following week for chest again... my progress was hindered when i worked tris same day as chest... in that scenario you are building endurance in your triceps not size. Same deal with if you work triceps the day before chest obviously. As for exercises, flyes are a no-no in max OT, you pick 3 heavy compound movements, so I would do say flat bench, incline dumbell and dips (weight if necessary). Keeping to 4-6 reps, though sometimes to mix it up go 6-8, avoiding forced reps but have a spotter who can assist with the last rep if needed I think too many forced reps is counter-productive, although using negatives effectively can help. The strict Max OT rule is that as soon as you can do 6 reps without assistance, put the weight up, and if you cant get to 4 reps, put the weight down.

2) I was actually talking about the bottom portion of the movement, if you have long arms and small chest, there is a point at which your elbows go down past your shoulder blades. Once you are down this far it puts a lot of stress on the shoulder joint and below this point it is your shoulders and triceps doing the work. My old trick was to roll up a towel and place it on my chest, and bring the bar down to touch the towel rather than my chest. This was maybe 2 inches off my chest, and stopped me going down too far. I just found this to be a more functional way of working the chest. Other techniques I tried were before starting I would pull my shoulder blades together and then "bury" them into the bench so that my chest was puffed out kind of thing, then ensure that my feet, arse and shoulder blades were my three contact points very firmly planted. If you can find some videos on youtube on how to improve form etc.

[Darfus]

bump for updates

[Darfus]

bump for another update! Good news!