You think you know, but you have NO idea (blatant MTV diary ripoff)

[956Vette]

Keep up the good work, and thanks for keeping us posted...Keep Pumpin'

[BIG TEXAN]

BG, not to worry. Some people are fortunate enough to never have side effects rare their ugly faces. I for one am also one of the few. Well I take that back, with fina I did notice a slight advance in hair loss. Other than that I have never had the bad luck of sides. Keep up the great work and I lok foreward to reading more of your posts.

[BigGreen]

Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
Current Weight: 260

Well, the progress continued on track even after the dbol stopped, so I am quite happy in that regard. Week 5's gains may even be underrepresented here, as there was an initial dip that took me down to 256 again, where I held for a few days before rebounding. All in all, strength seems to be eclipsing size in terms of the rapidness with which gains in these two departments are progressing. It seems as if each and every workout finds me picking up a pair of dumbbells 5 pounds heavier than the last, and often exceeding the reps of the week before on top of adding more weight!

I still feel that the best is yet to come, as I haven't felt the full side effects of test in the way of massively increased libido (in fact, it seems to be the one thing that dropped after dbol) in addition to the eq hunger remaining conspicuously absent...though my appetite has increased noticeably - but nothing i'd refer to as eq hunger after reading posts on the subject.

I plan on posting a sample diet for criticism soon, as I've drastically upped carbs (actually i've upped just about everything) after suspecting that I was falling short in that department(started feeling run down everywhere but the gym and was sleeping ten to eleven hours a day).

Injections have continued to go well, with only one real bad injection. Though, I must admit, today's has panned out negatively. I had been "heating" my gear prior to injection by running it under very hot water. I was rushed today and skipped that step, thinking it wouldn't make much of a difference....WELL...it did. The injection site hurts like it used to back in week one (before I started heating). Now, I was rushed, so perhaps that wasn't the only component contributing to the -pain, but, regardless, I will be heating from here on in.

Also, I'm torn regarding the issue of fina vs. winny the drug of choice in my cutting component of the cycle. I posted a thread about it in the main forum, but could use some feedback here as well, as it died quicker than expected...I'll find it and cut and paste it below.

[BigGreen]

Well, I'm coming up on the time where I'll be purchasing the components that will carry me through the final six weeks of my cycle (the last three weeks of the test and eq and then the three week period while waiting for the esters to clear before clomid). The original plan was to utilize winny in this capacity, though I confess to being drawn again and again to fina. I've compiled a list (of sorts) of what I have come to see as the pros and cons of each compound as they apply to me. I'll chronicle them below and then would love to get some feedback as to which I should include.

WINNY

Pros
*While I don't hate injections, and might actually like them, I'm not so sure I'd like them ED...winny to the rescue!
*This is a fairly reliable stand-by for a first time user like myself that isn't notorious for producing nasty sides

Cons
*I am petrified of hair loss, and while I don't know how I'll respond to the winny in that regard, as I understand it there is nothing I can take to mitigate the hair loss caused by winny.
*My strength has been rising rapidly, and while the joints are okay so far, I have a knee and an elbow that tend to flare up from time to time...I don't need winny exacerbating that little problem.
*While 50mg tabs are priced fairly reasonably, all other alternatives are, in my experience, not.
*17aa
FINA

Pros
*Uhhh, well, it's Fina...do we really need another "pro"?
*okay, one more: quite cost effective

Cons
*As mentioned above, I'm not sure I'd necessarily like the idea of ED injections.
*I've been told by guys whose opinions I respect that fina is not for first time users.
*Doesn't it have a rep for shutting you down much harder than winny? Not that it matters coming off an 18 week cycle i guess, but it's a factor.


Okay, fire away with opinions and feedback, I'd be really interested to hear what you have to say...personal experiences, stories, anecdotes, etc, etc.

[Huge Presser]

I base this on absolutely nothing... go with the winny.
And thinks for the updates bro.

Good luck,

HUGE PRESSER

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by Huge Presser
I base this on absolutely nothing... go with the winny.

Well, the winny's beginning to make sense only because i have to travel down to NC for a few days, New Jersey for a week and Florida for four days all during that three week span I'd be on that component alone...so I'd rather try and board a plane with tab winny in a centrum bottle or vitamin c bottle than try to work the fina through. It might be sad that I'm basing my decision on that, but I may be stuck with no other alternative.

[thetank]

bro ive got too tell you after the way you talked about yourself i didnt expect what i saw in your pics. you look awesome man! for your hieght too your a monster bro. nice overall physique, and if your 25% bodyfat, then im in the 35%-obease range..
anyway, awesome work so far keep it up.
peace
tank

[sigrabbit]

If it helps any, I noticed that the pumps in the calves and low back from Fina interfered with cardio more than winny, a little. Of course I had not been doing cardio in a while, so I could have been really out of shape both times.

[Huge Presser]

To be honest, I think you should go with the winny regardless of the every day injections. Fina could give you fina dick and does shut you down pretty badly. Stick with the winny.
But its your choice of course... keep us posted on what you decide.

HUGE PRESSER

[platinum]

Hey bro,
Good updates. With regard to winny vs. Fina, I was going to vote Fina. I'm on it now and it's incredible...much better than winny IMO. I only do EOD injections also. However, if you will be travelling while you're on, I will vote for oral winny. I wouldn't risk trying to carry pins and oil based gear with me.

Just saw your pics. Looking good bro. I don't think you're anywhere near 25%. I'm gonna say 16% or so at the most.

Platinum

[BigGreen]

Yesterday was a training day for me and I kept track of everything I ate throughout the day. This is fairly representative of what I'll eat on a training day. I'd like some critiques, but specifically I'll have some questions at the end as to a few carb and protein sources. Keep in mind also, that I'm just trying to gain, and can deal with a bit of a coating if it must be that way.

Meal One: Protein Shake in Milk, two whole eggs five egg whites, one apple, one banana, one whole wheat bagel toasted, and one glass of orange juice

Meal Two: Met-Rx Bar and an apple

Meal Three: Two skinless, boneless chicken breasts, bowl of cottage cheese, bowl of whole wheat pasta (plain) and a large glass of 1% chocolate milk.

Meal Four: "Block" of 50% light cheese (about 35g protein), one banana, one apple, two whole wheat eggo nutragrain waffles (plain), and a bowl of broccoli (enough to fit in a 1000ml Nalgene container....don't ask)

Meal Five: (pre-workout) Met-Rx bar and an apple

Meal Six: (post-workout) Glass of Juicy Juice cherry juice (soon to change as per Pain's advice) Protein shake in milk (also to change)

Meal Seven: (one hour after pw meal #one) Two hamburgers on whole wheat buns with lettuce, onion and ketchup, one apple and one large glass of 1% chocolate milk

Meal Eight: Glycerlean shake

*Additionally, on workout days I carry with me a 1lb container of unsalted, dry roasted peanuts that i finish by days end. It provides something to silence hunger pangs with and provides an additional 128 grams of carbs, 96 grams of carbs, and 224 grams of fat (only 30 of which are saturated).

I'm aware I'm slightly high on the dairy between the milk and cheese and also that on this particular day my carb sources had a large amount of "bready" substances. This isn't necessarily the norm, as sweet potatoes and rice also make up a great deal of carb sources for me...though the whole wheat pasta is ever present. I'm also a big fan of fruit, and hope that this isn't going to give me problems....i'll add up the macronutrients as well on my next workout day to get a better idea of the numbers.

[BIG TEXAN]

Originally posted by BigGreen
Meal One: Protein Shake in Milk, two whole eggs five egg whites, one apple, one banana, one whole wheat bagel toasted, and one glass of orange juice

Toss the protein shake and fruit. I'd go with 8-10 egg whites and 3-4 yolks. Put some natural pb on that bagel, and try about 1/2 to 1 cup of oats. Keep the oj

Meal Two: Met-Rx Bar and an apple

I would like to see more real food, but being a student, I'll let this one slide

Meal Three: Two skinless, boneless chicken breasts, bowl of cottage cheese, bowl of whole wheat pasta (plain) and a large glass of 1% chocolate milk.

Good, but replace the 1% with skim

Meal Four: "Block" of 50% light cheese (about 35g protein), one banana, one apple, two whole wheat eggo nutragrain waffles (plain), and a bowl of broccoli (enough to fit in a 1000ml Nalgene container....don't ask)

Toss the banana and the waffles and get some rice

Meal Five: (pre-workout) Met-Rx bar and an apple

Meal Six: (post-workout) Glass of Juicy Juice cherry juice (soon to change as per Pain's advice) Protein shake in milk (also to change)

Stick with a gatorade instead of the Juicy juice, use water instead of milk.

Meal Seven: (one hour after pw meal #one) Two hamburgers on whole wheat buns with lettuce, onion and ketchup, one apple and one large glass of 1% chocolate milk


Too much fat in this meal. Eat some chicken or tuna with white rice and that's it. No milk, no hamburgers

Meal Eight: Glycerlean shake

Now these are just some ideas and when I have time I could help ya more on your diet bro.

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by BIG TEXAN


Now these are just some ideas and when I have time I could help ya more on your diet bro.

I'd really appreciate that, but be aware that the last guy who told me "no milk, no hamburgers" lost a foot and a hand.

[BIG TEXAN]

I never said "no milk, no hamburgers". You just had them in the wrong time fraims. Besides, I believe I remember some of the self defense moves we were taught in the service. I ain't scared.

[David B.]

Originally posted by BigGreen


I'd really appreciate that, but be aware that the last guy who told me "no milk, no hamburgers" lost a foot and a hand.

Wow, you must've been REALLY hungry...

--dave

[majorpecs]

BigGreen...sounds like you are doing one hell of a job. I for one cannot wait to see the after pics....as for winny vs. fina>my opinion is this, go with whatever you can get easiest. I had great results off of both, but will admit that I got some back pumps of the fina that were almost too much to bear...but for the price it can't be beat. Of course if you have to go out of town, DON'T risk bringing pinz and gear with you....stick with orals.

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
I never said "no milk, no hamburgers". You just had them in the wrong time fraims. Besides, I believe I remember some of the self defense moves we were taught in the service. I ain't scared.

Oh, you wiley Texans....always resorting to violence. I was merely endeavoring to inject some semblance of humanity into my post. Rather than simply state, "some guy once told me to skimp on the milk and burgers", I felt that it would allow you to see the human side of this man if I told you something about him. See, mere days after offering me the advice, he entered his first alligator wrestling contest, with the aforementioned results of a lost hand and finger courtesy of an 8-footer. Tragic really...but that's the risk alligator rasslers take.

My dear Texan, did you momentarily presume that a born and bred New Englander of mayflower roots would resort to violence over dietary advice? For shame. The only thing for which we employ violence are the instances in which people who made their homes here for thousands of years refuse to accept the fact that the land we just stumbled across is really ours...and it was only through some cosmic misunderstanding that they arrived first.

Anyway, I digress...I'd love some help tweaking the diet

[BIG TEXAN]

BG, one of these days I'm gonna have to fly up there just to sit face to face to talk with ya. I'm originally from up north (Cleveland, Ohio) and miss that yankee charm that you posses. I'll help in any way I can, just give me a holler with your current eating schedule, food resources, and any thoughts you have on it.

[platinum]

Hey BG, ever consider losing the bagel and having oatmeal instead? Oatmeal is a much better source of carbs than a bagel. I love to have a few berries or banana slices in mine in the am...good


Platinum

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by platinum
Hey BG, ever consider losing the bagel and having oatmeal instead? Oatmeal is a much better source of carbs than a bagel. I love to have a few berries or banana slices in mine in the am...good


Platinum

I really, really wish I could do that, but I HATE oatmeal. I can't stomach the stuff to save my life. There's something about the texture that revolts me. The only way i get any now is when I blend oats with a protein shake. Any alternative ways of getting it that i'm not aware of??

[BIG TEXAN]

Oatmeal pancakes....YUM! I usually take 1 cup or so, mix in a couple of eggs and viola. A dash of honey and there ya go.

[platinum]

Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
Oatmeal pancakes....YUM! I usually take 1 cup or so, mix in a couple of eggs and viola. A dash of honey and there ya go.

lol...I was going to suggest exactly that. I only use egg whites though and put some sugar free jam on top...mmm.

[BIG TEXAN]

I forgot to type that in..... only egg whites, no yolks! Thanks for catching that platinum.

[Badass_lifter]

Great job so far Big green, I am going to run my diet similar to yours. I thought it was really good how you layed out the pros and cons of winny and primo will you do the same with the other roids u are taken?

[BigGreen]

For those having read over that sample diet (and I am making aggressive plans to clean up some of those carb choices...though I can't in good conscience cut substantially down on fruit), what do you think of my eating a pound of peanuts on workout days (spread over the course of the day as 'finger food')? It's not as if i ever heard that was a good idea or anything, it just seems to keep me fairly satiated and I seem to recall them being one of the more slowly digesting things you can put in your stomach aside from Bubbly Yum.

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by Badass_lifter
I thought it was really good how you layed out the pros and cons ... will you do the same with the other roids u are taken?

Well, the test enanthate as a base was never in question for more than a little bit, though I have to admit to foolishly considering sus for a few minutes. In all honesty, I have come to believe that sustanon is the most widely misused of all tests, perhaps of all AAS. I think monstercojones summed it up best in one of his threads (not sure where or when) when he asked newbies to get off the idea that a blend of four testosterone esters was something to get excited about. It's almost as if it's perceived merits come from the same reasoning that people apply when they purchase lotions, detergents or shampoos (Now a blend of four grease-fighting agents!!!). I'm shocked at the number of people who believe sustanon can be as effective as enanthate when both are injected 2x week...i could go on and on about this, but suffice to say i'm of the school of though that says sus is not for beginners...and I stuck by that in my own applications.

Insofar as the stacking component was concerned, however, there was some serious debate as to whether equipose or deca would serve in that role. Deca was attractive to me primarily because of its reputation for increasing mass more so than eq, but also because of its lubricating effect. Though still fairly young, i have an elbow and knee that give me hell when I lift heavy over an extended period of time....the knee is MUCH MUCH better (and rarely 'acts up'), but the elbow continues to present problems at the peak of heavy lifting cycles. It was for this reason that deca continued to look attractive, and was my solid choice literally up until the Nth hour.

In the end, eq won out primarily because I wasn't sure how my body would respond to aas (particularly with regards to recovery) and because of that, didn't want to be shut down as hard as deca shuts you down on my first run...particularly given that I'm already running a fairly long first cycle. Of course, once I elected to dedicate the final third of the cycle to a fairly aggressive paring of bodyfat, eq became the clear winner in that regard.

Thus far, I've been happy with the decision to include eq...though not yet six weeks in, I haven't been dried out in the joints at all...something I was fairly afraid of once the eq decision was made.

[BigGreen]

Well, as a few of you are aware, I'm entering my first ever bench press competition tomorrow. It is not what many of you would call a "real" meet, as, though there will be an official with sanctioned meet experience as a judge, it will be a 'touch and go' contest, as opposed to the powerlifting "norm" of waiting to receive the judge's signal before pressing. It is a raw meet, and, despite the touch-and-go methodology, there is a strict "no bouncing" rule in effect that this official will be enforcing.

The meet is intended to be a way for people to get their feet wet, and that's exactly how I'm treating it, entering the beginner 250+ class. I'll be having my girlfriend take pictures and I'll certainly post results tomorrow and hopefully pics as well.

Just to let you know, I'm planning on opening with 295 (i can't imagine anything else than bombing out because i miss a more ambitious opening lift three straight times). From there, the plan is to hit 315 just so I can have that number officially "in the books"....that should be a weight that is good enough to place respectably. From there I'll either be going at my "old" max (from when I was on westside...my "non westside" max a month before starting my cycle was 315) of 335 or maybe even a bit higher if 315 just floats up. I went in today to see some of the people competing in the "real" classes and there was a guy barely out of his teens who repped with 225 30 times then hit 315 about 15 times...neither looked to be close to failure (of course, he weighs 335 and is an O-lineman at a decent football school). So, yeah, i think i'll be nice and comfortable in the beginner class

[BIG TEXAN]

All sounds good BG. As for the fruit, if your ody can handle it(which mine would store it all as fat.) than go for it. A pound of peanuts, that's alot of efa's, but again, if it's working for ya. As for the eq drying you out.... I doubt it. Next mass cycle I'd recommend the deca . I personally love the stuff, but wanted to try eq very badly. Good luck at your very first meet tomorrow. I must warn you that once you're bitten by the powerlifting bug, it's hard to get rid of it. Again good luck, and 335 will come easily.

[Huge Presser]

Good luck BG... I love bench comps and I'm sure you'll smoke 335.
Also I don't think most newbies (like myself) take sust because of the "4 testosterones"... I believe it is because it is because of the great synergetic effect that occurs when taken with deca and dbol to kick start gains. An Eq/Enan and Deca/Sust are by and by large the two most popular newbie cycles... my next cycle I will running a eq/enan in the beginning... once again good luck on your comp.
BTW.... 260 lbs????? YOU'RE A FUCKING MONSTER BG!!!!!

HUGE PRESSER

[BigGreen]

Well, I arrived to find that only myself and one other competitor were in the Beginner 250+ class, so they condensed everybody over 200 into one beginner's class. Things started well but did not progress as planned for me. I elected to open at 315 after a warmup session that indicated it would go up easy...which it did. From there i jumped to 325 and it felt even easier than 315. Rather than sticking to the plan and trying to hit 335, i got greedy and went for 345, which I can't say i just barely missed, but I didn't blow it either. I have to admit it was GREAT fun to do this...even though my class had a small crowd of only about 15-20 people gathered 'round to watch it.

When all was said and done, my class had 8 competitors and I finished at 3rd with my 325. The winner finished with a 385 lift, and I don't want to pull the whole sour grapes thing, but I find it VERY difficult to believe he hadn't competed before...not based on his lift, but rather the vernacular he was using and his overall knowledge of how a meet works...he was asking people why there were no shirts allowed and whether there would be one judge checking for everything, or whether one would be assigned to judge the lift, while another would look for feet and lower back remaining in contact...shit i had NO idea about really. Again, he could have been a first-timer, but I, as well as several others (even the meet organizer) strongly doubted it. Second place was a guy who weighed in at 201 and put up 365...which I found very impressive. He opened at 265, then went to 315, then 365...all of which went up fairly easy. He probably could have made a run at first place if he planned his lifts better.

All in all, I'm happy with the results, and am looking forward to maybe training the bench press specifically in preparation for another comp sometime soon (as I hadn't benched in almost a month outside of pause sets).

By the way, I have a busy day, so I wasn't able to sit and watch the "real" classes, but i was watching some warmup and for a relatively small meet, there were some solid benchers there - a guy who i was told weighed about 130 was repping at 225 like mad. He was 5'1" or something and just looked like one muscle

[sigrabbit]

Nice work BigG!

[aanold]

Congrats BG, that comp sounds like it was fun.

[Huge Presser]

Great job bro! Bench meets are always fun... good luck on getting a new max shortly!

Quick question: How has your strength progressed so far (bench press specifically). I can't remember where you started in any of your lifts and I'd like to hear a little about how you've progressed.

Thanks

HUGE PRESSER

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by Huge Presser

Quick question: How has your strength progressed so far (bench press specifically). I can't remember where you started in any of your lifts and I'd like to hear a little about how you've progressed.

Well, in terms of hitting 325, that lift is actually BELOW my "natural" max of several months back. However, during this time, I was using westside training and westside training alone, so i was quite literally training soelely for strength at the the time...so that 335 wasn't exactly an accurate barometer from which to gauge my strength. That being said, I'm perplexed as to why my bench didn't make a big jump, as my shoulders and tris have made leaps and bounds over the last few weeks in terms of strength. That one has really got me wondering. One of the reasons I went after 345 without any hesitation is that my tricep strength has just literally exploded, so I saw no real reason why my bench wouldn't have made a corresponding jump...which it did not. I believe it has much to do with the fact tha 1RM's are, imo, as much a function of CNS conditioning as they are muscular strength (relative to the individual of course), and I didn't do any 1RM or even 3RM training in the months leading up to this event. I suspect if I took 275 and repped out with it, there would be dramatic improvement over the number of reps i was able to get pre-AAS....for me anyway, the mix i'm on just might not be affecting 1RM strength, which is fine by me, as I'm getting the results in all the other areas I consider paramount.

[rexboy]

Great job BG, maybe you're not hitting the pecs specifically and that's why your bench hasn't jumped as much? You got some massive shoulders and tris that could be taking over the movement, adjust your grip maybe and add some flys pre bench set?

[BigGreen]

After the bench press comp and an analysis of why things may not have gone as well as planned (aided by the comments above), I spent some time today assessing my chest as it figures into the total package. A few minutes in front of the mirror also indicated that, as my shoulders seem to be responding well, as is my neck (which is odd because i don't do neckwork) my chest is actually staring to fall behind and look a *bit* smaller as a result of the shoulders and neck surrounding it growing faster. For the remainder of the cycle's bulking phase I'll be employing a few "tricks" in an attempt to bring out this bodypart and give it some fullness.

*As per rexxboy's advice, I'm going to swallow my pride and do a little pre-exhausting of the chest with flyes before moving on to presses. One of the most satisfying aspects of being "on" is seeing that huge weight increase in lifts, and as much as I've wanted to see it on chest, i'm actually going to let this pre-exhaust movement knock the weight of my working sets down a bit in hopes of coming at chest with renewed tenacity.

*I've toyed with this take on chest training a bit (http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/255chest.jsp)...particularly the low cable presses, and might be making a concerted effort at including this in the workout split with a bit more diligence.

*I'm also going to bring back bandwork for the bench press, as, even when I was training for strength while using them, I seemed to get some decent thickness as well.

I'll keep you all posted as to how chest training progresses.

[majorpecs]

Originally posted by BigGreen
After the bench press comp

So how in the hell did it go?? Don't leave us hanging like that....and just to let you know, I also began to start my chest workouts with pre-exhaust flies and I have seen GREAT improvement in my pectoral gains. Swallow that pride big boy

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by majorpecs
So how in the hell did it go?? Don't leave us hanging like that....

scroll up a few posts...i definitely posted results and they look to still be there.

[mfenske]

OK Here's the idiot question of the day. What is pre-exhausting my
chest with flyes first going to do for me? Thanks. Mark

[Bulldog5.0]

By isolating the pecs first with flyes, they are gonna be a bit weaker than normal when you press. Since your tris and shoulders are fresh, the pecs will be worked really hard having been worked already. BTW pre-exhausting would be doing a set of flyes immediately followed by benching, in case that wasn't clear. I can vouch for this technique as a valuable tool to kickstart some growth.