04-07-2003, 08:57 PM #1
You think you know, but you have NO idea (blatant MTV diary ripoff)
Well, after MUCH thought and consideration, encompassing all aspects of morality, physical health, realistic expectations and general feasibility, I have made the formal decision to cross that very blurred line between natural trainer and “enhanced trainer.” AR, of course, was nothing short of invaluable throughout this process, and will no doubt continue to be so throughout my cycle and beyond. There are a handful or so of individuals who are deserving of my everlasting thanks for their patience in answering PM’s, helping to synthesize and organize my inane ideas, and generally offering up the entirety of their experience and wisdom. The unquestionably know who they are, and rather than play a very active role in inundating their inboxes with even more PM’s, I’ll let them remain “anonymous”. Just know that there isn’t a chance in hell I would’ve done this, or been able to do this, without you guys.
In what I hope amounts to more than a feeble attempt to somehow reciprocate to present and future members, I’m going to make every effort to keep a journal worthy of one Majorpecs and the standard he has set in this regard (all due respect, of course, to other journal keepers – LookingToCut comes to mind). So, without further adieu, the cycle for which I will be placing my order tonight (I’ve elected to start the journal tonight so that some first timers viewing it will not only get a glimpse into an actual cycle from start to finish, but will have some insight into that no doubt nerve wracking period between ordering and waiting):
Weeks 1-15 Test Enanthate @500mg/wk
Weeks 1-15 Equipose @400 mg/wk
Weeks 1-4 Dbol @30mg/day
Weeks 14-18 Winny @50mg/day
•Liquidex throughout at .5mg/day
•Enough Nolva on hand to start at day 2 if the situation arose
•Clomid introduced at week 16, “standard” therapy to begin at the “standard” time
•Liver protectants (standard)
Should things go VERY well while “on”, there is a very likely chance that I will include fina in the final 5-6 weeks as well. That is, however, a situation extremely contingent upon nothing less than a stellar reaction to the “as is” cycle. I’m quite certain that the first reaction, and justifiably so in many cases, is that this cycle may either be too ambitious or simply too much for a juice virgin like myself. Admittedly, the goals on this cycle are somewhat ambitious in the sense that I’ll be attempting to add some quality mass in the first twelve weeks or so and then take advantage of the anabolics in my system over the next handful of weeks to somewhat aggressively strip off the layers and cut up. I’ll be the first to admit that, in many ways, I’ll be attempting to eat my cake and have it to, proverbially speaking. I assure you, however, that this is not merely a cosmetic issue, but rather one of methodology. I’ve come to believe that gains are most readily kept on a cycle that manipulates composition as opposed to pure mass. Furthermore, I’m a believer in (relatively) longer cycles (in the way of 15-18 weeks) as the most efficient means in which to accomplish the above. I have bounced these ideas of off many people whose opinions I highly value, and have received conflicting reports as to the validity of my notions. That being the nature of this game (so much, I’ve found is far more debatable than I would have initially believed), I’ve elected to put faith into my original assertions, with the above cycle being the result.
As a point of reference through which to measure what I hope will be a decent success, here are the beginning stats and measurements of relevance:
•6’3”, 247 lbs as of today. I’ll be the first to admit I don’t necessarily look 250ish. It is quite likely that I have the world’s most dense bones and/or carry my weight in an illusory manner such that it looks like less than it is (in my opinion).
•Arms measured at 17” even, as did calves (hey, proportions!) Thighs are sitting at 27”.
•My max bench settled back down to 325 after a 9 week Westside routine (http://www.************systems.com/d...ng-program.htm) had temporarily bumped it up for a little while. My dead has always been relatively strong at a shade over 500lbs and the squat has been abysmal for some time, with 365 representing my best - though I go hamstrings to calves if that redeems me any
I’ll be taking “before” pictures immediately before crossing to the darkside and will post soon thereafter. The goals of the cycle are rather broad-based – chiefly, I hope to add some quality mass and fill out those rather long muscle bellies my parents saw fit to give me. I would like to tag some numbers onto my aspirations, but I’d prefer this cycle to remain rather dynamic or organic (pick your adjective), rather like Majorpecs’, who often made intelligent changes and tweaks throughout his progress. In short, then, the goal is to improve upon where I am right now in a quality manner. While I have my doubts that I’m quite up against my genetic limit (three years of what I believe to be serious and intelligent training under my belt and having gone from 175 at high school graduation to a high of 255 four weeks ago – and I’m 23 closely approaching 24) I’ve made this decision nonetheless and am hoping for the best. Below will be my diet and training approach (brief, comprised mostly of links outlining my approach), which I’ll post tomorrow (I have to collect all the links) and should offer some more insight into why I believe the aggressive cutting cycle at the end will ultimately assist in post-cycle recovery. And, for the remainder of the journal, I’m making my solemn promise to make every attempt to toss aside my verbose tendencies and get right to the point .
04-08-2003, 09:50 AM #2
BigGreen....I am going to be the first to say that you are going to have a very successful cycle. You have proven again and again that you are very intelligent. And I know that with the research you've put in, the notes you've taken, and the theories you've come up with>>>that your cycle is going to ROCK!!! Good luck bro, I'm very interested in how your cycle turns out..please keep us updated!!
04-08-2003, 10:20 AM #3
I agree, BigGreen, you will be a great success. I've seen you take your time out and research the hell out of gear instead of jumping right into it. I'm positive you will attain all your goals. Good Luck on your cycle.
04-08-2003, 10:44 AM #4
Good luck to ya and congrats on your descision to take AS. We are doing the same cycle just about and look forward to comparing gains and such. Again good luck.
04-08-2003, 10:59 AM #5
interested in reading about your upcoming endeavors my friend best of luck and cheers to your decision.
04-09-2003, 12:03 PM #6
Good luck bro! Looks like a solid cycle.
I look forward to reading your updates
04-09-2003, 12:25 PM #7
Awesome! Good luck to you. sounds like a great cycle.
One piece of advice to you for what its worth. get some prop to get you through the 3weeks waiting for the EQ to clear. Those three weeks suck seriously. I would if I wnated it to be perfect.
Also if youre gonna do Fina I would do it in the beginning so that you have the rest of the cycle to harden it out. The gains I had were short lived even w/ a good recovery. Youll probably be better off saving it for another cycle.
My .2cents for ya.
Best of luck to ya.
04-09-2003, 02:45 PM #8
Just thought I would make my first update (still haven’t organized my diet and workout notes into an organized piece that would make sense in a post, so they’re coming) just to add my two cents on the moral/ethical aspects that, in many ways, came pouring in as soon as I placed my order. I’m going to share a little story with you that might illustrate the fact. When I was real young (maybe nine or ten) my friends and I had a kick ass tree fort, except it was on the ground (but still attached to trees). We stocked all kinds of cool things in that fort, and, as fate would have it, there came a point when we came across a stack of nudie mags on the side of the road. While we were still too young to understand the rewarding aspects of “self pleasure”, we did know enough to realize that naked women were cool and we liked them. We struck up a deal where we would leave them in the tree fort so any of the five of us could gaze upon them at any given time. Over the coming days, the stack of five slowly dissipated. There were five of us and now only four mags, then three, then two, then finally one. That final one stayed there for some time, maybe five days, and no one touched it. As I hadn’t taken one home, I began to realize what was happening: there were five of us and five magazines. There was an implicit understanding that, rather than trudge through the snow in the cold to look at hooters, we would each just take one; unspoken but understood. The last one was the one I was supposed to take. Yes my friends, I took it – took it home and stashed it in that most classic of places: under the mattress. Immediately I felt somewhat bad. I knew I had hurt no one or violated any trust; it was more or less clear that each individual had taken one. However, I could not stop thinking that I had deviated from the norms of ethics and somehow betrayed my conscience, though I couldn’t articulate how.
To be honest, that same feeling came back upon placing my order. I’m aware my undertaking this practice will hurt no one in the literal sense, and I’ve always echoed Plato’s sentiment that a true form of cowardice lies in subscribing and adhering to laws that are unjust, so I am not quite aware where the feelings are stemming from. I suppose I technically ceased becoming a natural bodybuilder the moment I took methoxy-isoflavones, or used ECA to cut up – any number of things along those lines. I’m just left with a deep sense that I have struck a Faustian bargain. Don’t get me wrong, I am still greatly looking forward to my cycle. However, the cycle became MUCH more real the moment the order was placed. If there is a point to me opening up these thoughts to you (and I think it’s an important one) it is to let newbies know that there is a night and day difference between planning a cycle, tossing around ideas, etc and actually proactively beginning an actual cycle. It is one thing to abstractly state, “then add winny at week twelve” or “I’m consider prop as a kickstarter”. It becomes QUITE another when you withdraw the money from the bank, place an order and take that big step towards actualizing these abstractions.
04-09-2003, 03:43 PM #9
Hey BigGreen, I think it's been awhile for many of us since we've gone through exactly what you said, and I must say, you put it down in words perfectly. It is quite the norm to feel the way you do and am glad to say they will surpass. The closer the day comes for you to begin the more you'll begin to feel like a kid on christmas eve. Congrats and good luck.
04-09-2003, 10:08 PM #10
The Diet Cliff Notes
Actually writing out my diet plans in any detail, as I’ve discovered in trying to get all the details down, would simply be too long to hold the interest of most people clicking here to learn more about the cycle specifically. I do, however, feel it is important to get out the bread and butter of my plans (the Cliff Notes, so to speak), as I think that some of my ideas may at the very least get people to think a bit more about the critical role diet plays in all aspects of the cycle. In many respects, my cycle began four weeks ago, when I changed my routine and diet to reflect certain changes I desired for the start date. In short, a good chunk of my diet plans at the beginning and end of the cycle borrow heavily from theories flushed out by Bill Phillips and Tbjorn Ackerdfelt (sp??, if I even have the name right) in the shape of the ABCDE diet theories a few years back, and more recently by TC Luoma with the Delta 1250 dieting program. The crux of each, elementarily speaking, attempts to both explain and take advantage of that rebound effect many of us may have noticed upon abandoning a cutting diet (the same phenomenon that has man a bodybuilder looking ten times better two days after competition than on the day of). Essentially, both diets recognize the VERY favorable anabolic environment created during the first 5-7 days of overfeeding following caloric deficits. Admittedly, the empirical evidence is not where I’d like it to be, as many of the peer-reviewed studies validating this on the hormonal level involve untrained individuals, with the “money shot” study employing as subjects untrained women. The anecdotal evidence, however, is overwhelmingly positive, and likely something we’ve all experienced, so I will be putting faith into the fundamentals of this diet as a way to both begin and end the cycle most effectively.
To begin, the final 10 days pre-cycle will consist of a rather dramatic caloric deficiency. The day I begin the cycle will also represent the beginning of a drastic overfeeding. Synthesizing the theories above, that should give me about seven days or so where my own body is producing the natural equivalent of prop. Thus, my own hormonal system will be used (in conjunction with d-bol) to jump start the cycle. Of course, I don’t expect the effects to be the same as shooting prop, but I feel strongly that this is the most efficient way to naturally kickstart a cycle (a contradiction in terms of sort). Upon cessation of the seven days of drastic overfeeding, I’ll cut back down and level off at a not so dramatic surplus so that I can then begin the gradual climb upward that will allow me to make this, in so much as possible, a “quality” bulk.
Coming off of cycle, I’ll once again utilize the principles of this diet in an attempt to encourage my own body to react as quickly as possible in the manner I need it to at that given moment. In the final five or six weeks of the cycle, I have mentioned I will be undertaking an aggressive cut (comparatively speaking) in the hopes that during my first seven days “off” dramatic overfeeding, which in a “normal” situation would result in a plethora of favorable hormonal spikes and an anabolic environment, will at the very least, through the very same pathways, and in conjunction with clomid therapy, exert similar effects on the system which might somewhat expedite the return of my own, natural anabolic system. Truthfully, I am not as confident in this portion of the application of these principles, as not a single study has been done (of which I am aware) in which the effects of overfeeding following caloric deprivation were done on a “skewed” to say nothing of “shut down” HPTA. However, it can certainly do no harm and I, for one, am more than willing to test this little experiment in order to see if there might be any validity in its ability to speed recovery to any degree. Of course, I’ll have nothing to compare it to, this being my first, but over the years I’ve become somewhat aware of how my body feels in extreme catabolic and anabolic states (within the scope of a natural trainer) so I suspect I can at the very least draw some conclusions.
In the in between time, my diet will remain quite similar to the diet I employ during an weight gain period. This diet essentially mirrors the “normal” diet one would expect, though I make a concerted effort to drastically slash protein intake every seventh day (and, or course, do not train on that day), with each fourteenth day (so every other protein “drop day”) eliminating protein altogether for that day (fruit only). Many times in the past I have employed this dietary trick to creep over a plateau, and experience (and perusing my dietary journals) has shown me that it has tended towards largely positive results, though that day is not fun in the least. As soon as I organize it, I’ll post my workout foundation, which more than a few of you will find familiar.
04-10-2003, 04:54 PM #11
I'm going to make it short. I think you planned out everything very well. It is great that you get into every single detail of you cycle and tell us about it. This is some very usefull information, that teaches alot of us how to prepare for a cycle, physcaly and mentaly. I'll be carefully following your diary, knowing that I would defenetly pick up alot of useful ideas.
You will always have a good word from me on you bro, props to you.
04-10-2003, 07:41 PM #12
Big Texan...you are correct, it is amazing how quickly your conscious begins to clear and you start getting excited. Of course, it was the same with the nudie mag referenced above .
To everyone else...I hope not to let you guys down in terms of keeping my entries informative and entertaining. I'd like the info i post to not only be informative for newcomers, but to offer something to those with far more experience than myself...that will represent the real challenge. For now, however, it's time to play the waiting game.........the waiting game sucks, let's play "Hungry Hungry Hippos" (Simpsons' reference for those wondering if I've cracked). I'll post my workout plan later on tonight should time allow, and then my next post shan't arrive until I've taken the plunge (literally and figuratively).
04-11-2003, 08:25 AM #13
BigGreen- Hell I've done more cycles than I can count on one hand and everytime I place an order I'll feel guilty....especially now having kids. I start thinking about the money I'm spending. I start wondering, could this money have been used for some shoes or cloths that they perphaps needed. But my wife will come to my aid and reassure me that money has already been set aside for the family needs and that I deserve my little treat. But once your gear is sitting in front of you all worries fly out the window and the fun begins. So far your journal is on key. I wished I was as blessed with words as you are. I like how detailed it has been so far, and only hope mine will in turn be as half as good. Once you start let's keep notes so we can compare results because it looks like we're doing pretty much the same cycle give or take a couple of things. Good luck to ya.
04-12-2003, 11:21 PM #14
Well, it’s a little late in coming and I’d like to think a few of you were actually wondering where it was and anxiously looked forward to the post, but this being a weekend, I can’t say is that I think many people were inconvenienced or otherwise put out by me not posting my workout for the bulking phase of the cycle (the first twelve weeks). Anyway, for those of you have been falling Warrior’s progress, and I’m certain there are more than a few, this workout split will seem rather familiar, as I’ve more or less used his split as the rough draft or primary source from which I ultimately fashioned my workout scheme. MY VERSION is as follows; his is easily found in his progress threads should you be interested to see how the two deviate. In short, the major deviations occur in the holistic component of the workout – I, for whatever reason (be it delayed recuperative abilities in comparison to himself and others getting phenomenal results from this program or simply my muscles’ need for the implementation of drop sets and/or a break from the relatively lengthy duration encompassing his vision of “holistic day”) have, in the limited experience with such a split, found that every other holistic day serves me best if, rather than the GIANNNNT set Warrior recommends each holistic day, I simply incorporate a compartmentalized version in the form of a descending/strip set. It remains true to the principles of the holistic workout but essentially allows me to periodize it somewhat, to the extent that is feasible and practical. Secondly, I’ve found over the years that I respond best to “waves” of microperiodized burst of intentional overtraining with a deliberate and planned tuning down of intensity to allow for recovery and “recharging” of sorts. This is best explained in a graph, which I’ll attempt to attach below, though an interesting thread already in existence, elucidates the concept somewhat to the degree I hope to and provides some interesting discussion on the matter (http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...light=holistic). The end result is that, largely based on instinct but appearing to be about every fifth week (so two intentional back off periods built into the twelve week bulking cycle – something that may prove unnecessary while “on”, or, even more significantly, not something I’ll be able to accept psychologically at the time though I may intuitively know it is best for me.
Basically, what I’m left with after borrowing extensively from Warrior is this:
Three distinct workouts for each bodypart, each workout necessitating a distinct recuperation time: 1. German Volume Training, 2. “Standard”, 3. Holistic.
1. German Volume Training: 10 sets of 10 reps. Most literature advocates that a weight equal to 60%1RM be utilized (http://www.sover.net/~timw/gvt.htm). I’ve found that for me personally, there tends to be a significant deviation depending on the bodypart. For chest, I am decidedly below, while for quads and hams, I tend to be able to carry a slightly higher weight through to completion. Of course, compound movements are used for maximum efficiency. REST REQUIRED: 3-4 days
2. “Standard”: For me, this “standard” version of training represents 9 total sets for smaller bodyparts and 12 for larger. For the small it’s 3 exercises for 3 sets, and for the large it’s 4 exercises for 4 sets. Though this may resemble overtraining to some, keep in mind, that only one set per exercise is actually carried to failure. The other two serve as warm-ups (even after the initial exercise, as I try to vary my movements as much as humanly possible) and as “mental preparation” for the “actual” set that is to be taken to failure. For hammer curls for instance, I will warm up with 30’s (taken nowhere near failure), move on to 45’s (once again, nowhere near true failure but taken a bit closer than with the 30’s) and finally to 60’s (where I take it to absolute failure). These warm-ups serve a psychological purpose as well, in that I envision to the last minute detail what it might be like to take the set to failure, and get genuinely pissed at the fact I can not take that set to failure. As a result, by the time I get to the third set of the exercise (the “actual” set), I attack that weight with an absolute fury. It works for me and I’d argue that it’s what has allowed me to develop a fairly solid mind-muscle connection, as the first two sets allow me to get “into” the muscle mentally, as I’m not concerned with moving a lot of weight, just feeling the weight I have. The end result, in this case, is that for small bodyparts, a total of three sets to failure are performed, while for larger bodyparts, it’s a total of four sets. REST REQUIRED: 4-5 days
3. Holistic: (this is a direct cut and paste from Warrior) 1) Power Movement (4-5 reps), 2) Rythmic Movement (12-15 reps), 3) Holistic (40 reps). Done non stop - on big Giant set. Extreme intensity. An example of Delt day was using 1) Hammer Front Press (4-5 reps), 2) Standing Side Laterals (12-15 reps), and 3) Upright rows (40 reps). Like I said, you go non stop from exercise to exercise - not necessarily ever needing a spot (unless safety is an issue) but dropping weight as you get fatigued. REST REQUIRED: Varies, though the average seems to play out at 6-7. I will generally rely entirely on biofeedback (call it “instinctive training” if you’d like) to determine the rest period in this instance, particularly as I vary the intensity of holistic day somewhat. If, after holistic chest day, I “feel” ready to go again in five, I’ll generally go with that feeling.
The bodypart break down is as follows:
Chest: A, B, C, repeat
Back: A, B, C, repeat
Delts: A, B, A, C, repeat
Biceps: A, B, A, C, repeat
Triceps: A, B, A, C, repeat
Calves: A, B, A, C, repeat
Quads: A, B, C, repeat
Hams: A, B, A, C, repeated
Abs: B, B, C, repeat
Prioritized bodyparts (in this case back, chest and quads…quads largely because they recover fairly quickly for me) have their intensity variations condensed. I’m not sure if Warrior’s original intention was for this particular methodology to be applied to lagging bodyparts, but I found that this shortening of the cycle seemed to do the trick. Unfortunately, as effective as shortening the cycle proved to be, I know that, even “on”, I could not withstand the physical onslaught of every single bodypart, and thus my whole body, being subjected to such unrelenting intensity.
Again, as soon as I can put together a decent graph/visual, I’ll attempt to demonstrate just how and why I’ll be sticking an intentional rest period into the mix here at the micro level.
04-13-2003, 12:30 AM #15
Well in a few weeks will have to change your username to BiggerGreen
Just a side note on Holistic training. It is Holistic in the sense that the one big giant set completely fatiques the muscle group by switching between slow-twitch and fast-twitch fibers. You bounce around from rep ranges of very low and heavy to high reps with lighter weight. You can do this for one big giant set lasting about 20-30 minutes because your fibers that help you generate expolisiveness rest when you switch to something higher rep. How you wrote the 40 reps as "holistic" is not correct. The entire workout is holisitic because of how it burns out the muscle group in it's entirety. Very good for training for size... I have had people literally shake my hand after doing these days. You sweat hard and a many a times I had to get something in me from the vending machine (water, Gatorade, Powerade, fruit juice...) to keep me from puking all over the Leg Press
But - if you do drop sets or what not, like you mention - that's not a holistic workout. You are using an alternate day for etreme intensity - but you aren't using the Holistic approach to training for hypertrophy.
For your split - I would suggest doing more high intensity days (C) for delts. I have had great results off an A, B, C order. My Delts seem to respond the best to more intensity and holistic-type training. Back as well. Chest seems to do better with more GVT days (A), A, B, A, C. I know you have bodyparts outlined to prioritze - but from my personal feedback - adding in more Holistic/higher intensity days isn't always the best way to do it. Rather focus on what bodypart is worked out first, rest days and giving those bodyparts your 100 percent attention.
But - and I mean BUT - these are from my own records - and I haven't known anyone else to stick to this program besides myself to get more feedback. Most people do one of those Holistic days with me and never ask to meet me in the gym again - BUT I look forward to how you do. Deffinitly a good split while "on" Eat well, drink plenty of water and get enough rest... remember naps are for babies - POWER NAPS are for tough guys!
But this is an advanced split that will require a ledger to keep records and teach you a lot about your system and recovery ability - and enhance that "insticitve" ability. Enjoooooy
04-13-2003, 07:46 AM #16Originally posted by Warrior
How you wrote the 40 reps as "holistic" is not correct. The entire workout is holisitic because of how it burns out the muscle group in it's entirety.
And, you're definitely correct in that my strip set method shouldn't really fall under the holistic definition, per se. However, in doing it, I try to remain true to the approach of hitting all fibers as deeply as possible: for a bench strip set I start with a weight I can manage for 2-3 reps as a starting point, strip only twenty pounds, go again with ZERO rest, then proceed to strip about 30-50 pounds at a clip until I'm down to the bar, which lately i've been able to manage for near forty reps (well, low 30's to be honest). I tried to convey that the holistic was more a term for the foundation of the day in question (your method described) by trying to put "holistic" in quotes while describing this (or, I hope I did...i'll have to reread), as it's often every third, though frequently every other, that I "regress" to this variety of training on this day...though some bodyparts (quads, for example) I never deviate from the standard "C" day. Thanks for clearing up the discrepancies nonetheless - I often articulate theories for my training (and not just in this instance) which happen to coincide with the proven theories and corresponding scientific literature, but I lack the formal vernacular to convey those ideas in a manner consistent with the dominant language used to express these ideas. I suppose I could consider myself lucky that much of my instinctive beliefs and feelings as they relate to training seem to correlate with tried and true scientific and kineseological fact, though at the same time there's a certain frustration in being unable discuss these ideas on the same level as yourself and others for lack of terminology. Well, I'm here to learn, so hopefully I can change that....if I can get to a decent portion of your understanding of the relationship between muscle growth, strength and training principles, I'll be more than content.
Last edited by BigGreen; 04-13-2003 at 09:39 AM.
04-13-2003, 02:31 PM #17
BigGreen, once again I'm impressed by your research and well thought out plan of attack for your plunge to the dark side. I've no doubt that using the methods you described you are gonna get SWOLE!!!
Is there a book or online resource on the Holistic training method? I've trained extensively for strength and don't fully understand how to train for hypertrophy rather than for strength.
04-13-2003, 02:54 PM #18Originally posted by majorpecs
Is there a book or online resource on the Holistic training method? I've trained extensively for strength and don't fully understand how to train for hypertrophy rather than for strength.
04-13-2003, 05:07 PM #19Originally posted by majorpecs
Is there a book or online resource on the Holistic training method? I've trained extensively for strength and don't fully understand how to train for hypertrophy rather than for strength.
He gives a very good scientific description on training for hypertrophy (Holistic too) and periodization. A very good read - a must read IMO.
04-15-2003, 10:30 AM #20
A Final Concern
Well, "Before" pics should be up this week, and I expect my delivery by week's end as well...the cycle should begin on Monday
And, while I know I gave my word that there would be no more postings until the cycle began (as to avoid watering down the diary), I've come across something of a connundrum that I think many people new to aas might like to hear articulated, and those with experience might be willing to chime in.
Anyway, one of the big factors in my ultimately electing to utilize AAS was my belief that I had a very respectable grasp on training, particularly with regards to how my body responds, if not training philosophies in general. Additionally, armed with that knowledge, I always prided myself on getting the absolute most out of each set, with an enviable mind-muscle connection and a stalwart discipline in my ability to refrain from working my ego as opposed to my muscles. The last week or so, however, my workouts have been better than ever - every rep is deep and purposeful, and I'm feeling the pump deeper in the muscle bellies than I ever have before. As cheesey and cliched as it sounds, I truly have felt this week as though I "AM THE REP" while performing it. This would normally be good news...hell, great news.
But, the bothersome aspect of it is that, as mentioned above, I had believed up until a few days ago, that I possessed a type of mind-muscle connection that would necessitate years of additional training before it would make a dramatic leap...and here I have made this dramatic leap in a week or so!? Yes it is the excitement of the upcoming cycle, there's no doubt about that, but I am left with the nagging feeling that, if the simple excitement and subsequent placebo effect of using AAS has propelled my workouts to this degree, do I really have the grasp on training principles and approaches that I thought I possessed? If not, do I have any business using AAS?
Don't get me wrong, I am quite happy with this development and am embracing it, but it epitomizes yet another contradiction of sorts that seems inherent in this "game" and certainly has me reconstructing where it is I stand. I'll still be going through with the cycle, as it still appears to make sense, but to all those considering aas, as well as those having used (perhaps unwisely, perhaps with great effect) in the past, I'd urge you all to introspectively dwell on the manner in which their use (even their impending use) creates new "pockets of mentality and identity". It is certainly something worth examining, and I hope to flush it out over the course of this journal. I'll catch you all later with pics...though I'm dreading throwing them up for a variety of reasons.
04-15-2003, 11:05 AM #21
BigGreen...I just think that we are always learning new things that change the way we think about stuff.....our body is a very complex mahcine that I believe is always changing and I think these discoveries will continue to happen as long as you strive to be the most efficient bodybuilder you can be.........
Do your cycle....get big..and stop overanalyzing.....You are almost too smart for your own good...hehehe
04-18-2003, 05:22 PM #22
I just thought I would add this for your collective entertainment tonight. Furthermore, this might serve as a nice little addition for the newbies, as this aspect of the steroid game seems to rarely come up in such discussions. That being said, if in fact you are preparing to pay through Western Union, or any other financial medium through which you will be forced to interact with even one other person, be prepared for a bit of paranoia. Below are two versions of my money wire experience: version 1 (the "what actually happened" version) and version 2 (the "what shit was going through my head and how I thought it was happening" version). Here they are:
I approached the service desk at the supermarket, as it also serves as a WU branch office. The young lady took my form and attempted to enter the info into the computer. Her access number, as she was new, apparently had not been entered into the system, so she was required to summon another customer service rep to complete the transaction. This new, older-aged rep continued the transaction, completed it, then noticed she forgot to enter the test question into the computer, and was forced to call it in. She had to give her access number, as well as the branch office's numerical code, over the phone to add the question. I then received my receipt and went merrily on my way.
VERSION 2: (my thoughts are in parantheses)
I approached the service desk at the supermarket, as it also serves as a WU branch office. The young lady took my form and attempted to enter the info into the computer. Her access number, as she was new, apparently had not been entered into the system, so she was required to summon another customer service rep to complete the transaction (This was clearly a bullshit deep cover agent tactic and this was the accepted code for bringing in a senior agent to rattle me. Should I knock over the free cheese sample tray and get the fuck out of here? Maybe take some of the chili sauce from the rack only feet away, blind the agent and screw outta there? I'll keep cool and see where this goes...they can't break me this easily). This new, older-aged rep continued the transaction (after, of course, coming out from behind a one way mirrored window. Sure, other customers might think it's just a mirror, but I KNEW there were about six or seven federal agents back there, salivating at the thought of taking me, now a hardened criminal conspirator, down. That's just what some bastard needs for his promotion...nailing me. I'm getting a little nervous now), completed it, then noticed she forgot to enter the test question into the computer, and was forced to call it in (I see, a delay tactic. There are probably helicopters overhead. I swore I'd never kill again, but now it's apparent there's only one way out of here for me. Of course, I have to pretend I'm not on to her and that I think she's really just a "normal" supermarket employee who screwed up a transaction. But I know better...go ahead, make the first move, you may have a license to kill, but I still have this chili sauce. My fingers glazed over the chili sauce jar, becoming one with what would likely serve as my only weapon when shit went down in this sting operation). She had to give her access number, as well as the branch office's numerical code, over the phone to add the question (What kind of amateur do they think I am? I'm onto their game....call me the jackal, I'm like the wind baby. I'm starting to sweat now. She's calm and composed. Obviously these numbers are code that I'm not to be taken down until I leave the building. Probably giving the SWAT team time to arrive. It's obvious to them that I'm was ordering gear...this guy's probably flagged. No way are they gonna have a regular agent try to take down a bro who might have fina rage! So that's the game they wanna play, they're waiting for the SWAT team now). I then received my receipt and went merrily on my way (I could see now that we were involved in a delicate chess game of sorts. With SWAT outside and the agents in the building now no doubt aware I was onto them, the stakes had risen. I wander the store...weighing my options. By the frozen foods section I find myself crafting a plan to get into the ventilation ducts. In baked goods I start to evaluate who might make a good hostage. A giant roller with sheets upon sheets of cookies on it rolls by...could I hide on the bottom rack as in prison movies? Maybe I'd have to kill the cookie guy, take his uniform, and walk out, assuming his identity...safe until they found the cookie guy knocked out in my clothes. But by then fools I'll be in Canada....ahahahahahahahah).
See my point? I'm being humorous here, or trying at least, but it did feel like that for a second or two. Between her calling in the test question, the first associate calling for backup, and the slew of numerical
codes being tossed about....plus this being the first time not including alcohol consumption that I've EVER broken the law and I was going out of my head. I'd make one shitty secret agent that's for sure.
04-21-2003, 04:55 PM #23Associate Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
your quite imaginative to say the least, good luck on your cycle.
04-24-2003, 03:39 PM #24
A Brief Update
Have you ever ordered something, either through the internet or mail-order-catalog? Well, you know that feeling of anticipation that comes with it, especially if it's something that is either needed in a hurry or you were especially looking forward to? Well, as I'm sure everyone with a cycle under their belt knows, this apprehension and anxiexty is truly rivaled (in my experience) by those fantastical childhood memories involving Santa Clause or some similar construction OR those definitive life moments such as graduations, career changes (i imagine) and other such happenings where you're certain life experiences down the road will come to be classified as "before this" and "after this". Now add to that the fact that no matter how slim the chances actually are, you can't help but wonder if there's a mail inspector plotting your demise or your mailman is currently being briefed on how to "act normal" in the midst of a controlled delivery
Quite seriously, though, I've been returning to my apartment the last two afternoons absolutely dying to see a package left on the front door, but with no such event yet bearing out. Tragically, the anxiety is likely stressing me to the point I'm in a catabolic state...not to mention that this "waiting game" has me, as it will no doubt have many of you yet to have taken this step, second guessing my decision in many ways (as evidenced above in a few posts). Truth be told, I suspect this will be the toughest portion of the actual cycle (mentally speaking). I don't believe sticking myself will be a big deal (though we'll know for sure soon enough), and, despite my tale above, the WU transfer wasn't nearly that bad...it was more a comedic effort than anything else. Well, hopefully by the time I post next, my stuff will have arrived, and before pics will be posted along with the tales of my first self-administration. I guess it's about time this thread got interesting.
04-24-2003, 09:06 PM #25
I am AR's most foolish member!
I can realistically measure in weeks how far away I am from achieving a longtime dream of mine and getting my degree from an Ivy League institution. Despite this fact, however, this education, while it has done much to expand my intellectual mindset and academic prowess as it were, has done nothing to make me a more rational and/or competent being in day-to-day activities, as evidenced by the events of the last few hours. While I don't like my stupidity to be known, I think this experience is an essential part of my experience, and therefore a necessary additon should I continue to endeavor to produce an honest and accurate journal.
I returned from school today at 7:00pm to find a package on my front porch steps that had not been there when I left at 3:00. This seemed a bit odd to me, as my mail, in the year and a half I've lived here, has never come after 1:00 in the afternoon. Just to be safe, I ignored the package as I walked into the house, which would have appeared normal enough, as my arms were full of books, papers and other scholarly material. I went inside, surveyed the street from a window just to ensure there was nothing unusual (like a guy on the park bench pretending to read a newspaper)...already I'm paranoid. By the time I finally muster up the courage to go pick it up off the steps, a phone company van pulls up (it's 8:00pm...and I know from experience that the phone company is next to impossible to get a hold of after 5:00, so how could they possibly be working?). I wait a few and the thing stays there for a while, seemingly doing very little. I go out my side door and across the street to the convenience store to pick up some milk. As I leave the house, like clockwork the van pulls away. Now I'm freaking out. I PM a couple of trusted bros from the board, IM another and PM a few who seem to know their shit. Paranoid as I am, I don't stop to think that the feds would be monitoring my postings and such.
Anyway, after getting the "go-ahead" from the AR brotherhood, I go and pick it up, heart racing. I get it in the house, brace myself for the oncoming wave of DEA agents, and, when it doesn't come, sneak a peak at the address label. I had the shades pulled in my place, sweating my balls off for two hours over my F*CKING pinz!!!!!!!!!!! The single most anti-climactic moment of my life, no doubt about it.
Yes, that was somewhat cathartic to get out, but I still feel foolish nonetheless. However, I maintain that this is an aspect all newbies should be aware of (and I'm hoping they're reading my journal). A number of things happened that probably happen every single day. The bitch of it is, you don't notice a damn thing until you're waiting for the delivery of a controlled substance, at which point you become the single most observant mofo on the planet...to, as you can see, your inevitable detriment. Anyway, thanks to those who talked me through it...i was probably the first guy ever to need that kind of support to get his darts.
EDIT: by the way, I stumbled across this thread while I was being all scared, for those who read this post, it might serve as a logical "next step" in the learning process:
Good Read on Controlled Deliveries
Last edited by BigGreen; 04-24-2003 at 09:16 PM.
04-24-2003, 10:22 PM #26
I've never read so much in my life! Good thread
04-24-2003, 10:46 PM #27
Bro, I have to say, You are truly amazing!!!!! You seriously put a lot of time and effort into this. I'm soooo glad you did your research!!! You are a class act, and definitely a great addition to the board!!!!!! IT WAS ONLY PINS!!!!!!!! I can't believe it!!!!!!!! Best of luck, stay in touch....
04-25-2003, 05:58 AM #28
BigGreen having 4 hours of anxiety over a package of PINZ on his porch...Priceless!!
04-25-2003, 06:34 AM #29
Re: BigGreenOriginally posted by majorpecs
BigGreen having 4 hours of anxiety over a package of PINZ on his porch...Priceless!!
04-25-2003, 07:49 AM #30
Thanks BG! I needed this god laugh this morning. I think we've all had experiences like that. I can tell you some heart pounding stories from my times of bringing gear across the border every other weekend to the point of going to get my most recent gear and wondering if these guys weren't setting me up. Hey Big.....I think yoga may help calm ya down some. Good luck bro...so far your journal has not only been educational, but entertaining as well.
04-25-2003, 10:32 AM #31Junior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
My gear was delivered as I arrived home froam class one day- I actually saw the mailman pull it out of his pouch and go to put it in the box. I was like "hey I'll take that!" He looked at it and goes "Gee, there's no name on it" with a note of suspicion in his voice. I just told him "I know what it is", grabbed it, and went inside. No biggie. I was so excited about getting it that I gave two shits what he thought.
04-26-2003, 04:30 PM #32New Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
Very well thought out and well done Big Green... your cycle will surely be a success with all the time you've put into it... good luck.
-THE YOUNG JASON
04-28-2003, 05:56 PM #33
A question for you all....as a bit of a "problem" has arisen. My stuff arrived (and, can you believe, after all this worry about grabbing my pack, my gf's mom came to visit and saw it on the porch and brought it in before I even came home?) but I was out my liquidex, which is being shipped now as there was some sort of mix up. Given my cycle outlined above, is it foolish to start at all until the dex arrives, or will I be "cool" for the 2-4 days it takes to arrive? I imagine I'd technically be okay, but I don't want to violate a golden rule of starting without EVERYTHING on hand...however, I'm so damn eager to start. Any thoughts?
04-28-2003, 06:24 PM #34
Dude...you'll be coool......GO FOR IT!! The moment we have all been waiting for needs not to be delayed anymore!!!!
04-28-2003, 10:51 PM #35Junior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
I'd say to go for it if you are very confident in your source. Two-to-four days isn't much. Then again, shit happens. I'm 4 weeks into my test prop/EQ cycle and haven't even used the arimidex or nolva I bought because I have no symptoms of gyno, bloat or anything else.
04-29-2003, 07:50 AM #36
I agree, if you have total confidence in your source than go ahead and start, especially if it'll only be like 4 days. Good luck BG!
04-29-2003, 11:42 AM #37
Great thread. Thanks for keeping it updated.
I would go ahead and start IF you're confident your source will deliver the dex.
04-29-2003, 10:58 PM #38
Those who have been to the dark side....welcome me to your ranks
Yes, it's true, I took the final step today with a 2cc injection into the right quad and 35mg worth of dbol ! To anyone who has ever doubted the existence and/or dramatic effectiveness of the placebo effect, you need look no further than AAS to see it in full effect, as I so wonderfully discovered throughout the course of today's events. While I'm fully aware that even the mighty dbol doesn't manage to "do its thing" in the span of only 8 hours, not only did i feel "bigger" all day, but all the weights felt just a little bit lighter at the gym tonight. However, with this bonus came a decided drawback as well. The very same overly acute awareness that allowed me to (if only momentarily) believe phone company vans were commandeered as part of some elaborate scheme against me also has me being perhaps overly deligent in looking out for sides. I suspect this is something every first time user experiences: within moments of taking my first 10mg of dbol, I actually "felt" my face bloating. Within hours of the second dose, I was convinced gyno was coming. Of course, I was able to remain rational and dismiss these overreactions as just that, but, nevertheless, I think it warrants mention, as I'm a firm believer that virtually every first time user experiences this final phase of self doubt that manifests in the emergence of imagined sides.
All that being said, however, the experience has been largely positive thus far. Like a little school girl that I am, I iced the injection area first and it literally slid right in with very little effort. Granted, my hands were shaking a bit, being my first time and all, so we'll see how it feels in the A.M. Though, to back up for a moment, something that is often overlooked in day-to-day discussion and the dispensing of advice is just how difficult it can be withdraw the oil from the vial...it took me a good ten minutes; and while I'm assuming I'll become more "efficient", the posts on this board and others rarely touch on the fact it is anything but effortless. In truth, it proved to be the most difficult part of the process for me.
Anyway, as I want to make a concerted effort to keep these posts short and readable, I'll get to the BIG point that arose today. Given the monumental "psych up" I got today simply as a result of my first administration, I have to believe, as is often admonished upon us first timers, that the most difficult part of embracing and incorporating AAS into your life is saying goodbye. Given the absolute rush, though it's a long 18 weeks off, I already have to face the fact that the letdown coming off (psychologically speaking) will very likely be comparable (though in the opposite manner desired) to getting on...something which will be difficult to deal with, to say the least. Additionally, I must also prepare myself for the fact that, physiologically, the type of actual gains conducive to the initial rush I felt today are just not feasible...yet another psychological aspect that is often only mentioned in passing.
Well, I'm out....now it's time to keep this thread updated and alive with the real "sticky icky" to quote Snoop.
PS: As you can tell, given the good word of my source, I've elected to begin the cycle without dex (though I have the nolva in case), as it is slated to arrive in the next couple of days.
04-30-2003, 07:54 AM #39
Congrats BG, you've now entered the "other side". You are right in your idea of what coming off will be like. It can get very depressing and have known many guys run out and ge more in fear of coming off and spend several cycles on before finally coming off and crashing. Try not to tink about it for that's several weeks away and enjoy the bebefits of having AS pumping through your system now. Best of luck to ya, and yes withdrawing from the vials will become easier as you go.
04-30-2003, 08:24 AM #40
UPDATE: Yes, the injection site is pretty damn sore now that it's 9:00am. It looks as though I may have to schedule my leg days around injections, cuz right now I couldn't do a deep squat to save my life.
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