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  1. #1
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Red5's First Cycle

    I am 33, 5'8" 195lb @15%bf.Been training for 4 years, but only in the last year have i really got my diet and workout solid thanks to what I've learned from all the guys here at AR.Thanks everyone.
    So now it's time to start my first cycle.Being scared of the needle (yeah i know) i was thinking of doing an oral only cycle Andriol /Anavar or Dbol only, but the cost and availability of some the drugs made that a no-no.
    I knew if i was going to do this i was going to have to inject.This is what i have decided on,
    wks 1-4 Dbol 30mg
    wks 1-10 Test Enanthate 500mg
    Did my first shot this morning and it really wasn't that bad.I was thinking of glutes, but i just didn't feel i could reach round and hold the pin steady so i went in the leg instead.Suprised at how easy the pin went in 23g1/12 and also how hard you have to push the plunger, but there was no real pain more like a dull ache like someones given me a dead leg.Felt dizzy and wasn't sure if i was going to black out or not after the inject, but that only lasted for a moment.Had a cup of coffee and jumped in the shower and now i feel fine.
    So after all the years of waiting and researching and then the paranoia of ordering the gear and waiting for it to arrive hoping i don't get scammed,it doesn't get seized or that i get a controlled delivery it's finally on!

    Red5.

  2. #2
    Whoisdaman is offline Senior Member
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    Seems like there has been atleast 5 "first injection" posts in the last week. Well, welcome to the dark side bro.

  3. #3
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks man.I am going keep this updated so you can all see how everything goes.
    You anywhere near Orlando?

  4. #4
    Power-BB's Avatar
    Power-BB is offline Associate Member
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    Good work bro...I'm hoping to start my first cycle as soon as some stuff comes in. Keep us updated with your progress

  5. #5
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Would you believe it? The day i started my cycle my computer monitor died so i haven't been able to update like i would have liked.Anyway i'm back now almost the end of the second week.Put on 5lbs after one week, but no strength gains yet or dbol pumps (which i was looking forward to as i don't think i've ever had a pump before).
    Two days after first injection i got the flu for a day, fever, sweating, felt sick and couldn't eat anything, but felt fine the next day.Second injection went a bit better, though still sore for a few days after.
    Nipples became painful to the touch after one week so i've started taking nolva 40mgs ed which i will taper down to 10mgs once the problem clears.
    Third shot tomorrow and i will check weight as well.

  6. #6
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    OVG
    OVG is offline Associate Member
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    Welcome to the darkside brother!!!

  7. #7
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Forgot to mention a couple of little zits on the side of my nose.Damm, that was the one side i didn't want.I guess i could put up with a little acne on my chest and back, but please no-more of these whiteheads on my face.

  8. #8
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Just a quick note to all first timers who are afraid to inject.I just did my third shot this morning and it was no problem at all.I have always been scared of the needle, but they're really nothing to worry about.I'm using a 23g 1.5" and it's painless.After the first two i felt dizzy like i might faint, but that was only for a moment, now after the third shot i felt fine.It's like everyone says you get used to it, you just have to get over that first hurdle.

  9. #9
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Weighed myself today, now 204lb up from 195 two weeks ago.I guess thats about normal, but I don't look any different.I'm dissappointed that i haven't made any strength gains and am not getting any pumps.My lower back aches like crazy though when i deadlift and squat, to the point where i have to end the set it's so bad.

  10. #10
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Ok, its been three weeks now and i still don't feel anything.No strength gains no pumps, i will weigh myself tomorrow to see if i've gained anything, but i don't look any different.My first thought was that my gear is fake, but i'm getting some sides (paniful nips, high BP, acne) so i don't think thats it.Maybe it's still to early? Am i being unrealistic in expecting to see some results by now?
    Do you think the dbol dose is to low (30mgs)?
    Start of the fourth week tomorrow, hopefully the enanthate will be kicking in anytime now.

  11. #11
    TheJuicer is offline Member
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    Pain in the nips

    Pain in the nips is not a good thing..Hey guys give this dude some help!!

  12. #12
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Re: Pain in the nips

    Originally posted by TheJuicer
    Pain in the nips is not a good thing..Hey guys give this dude some help!!
    That happened after one week, but i started the nolva 40mgs for 3 days and 20mgs ed after that and its cleared up.I'm going to up my calories in particular protein and carbs, not sure how as i eat every two hrs until i'm full as it is.

  13. #13
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    BigGreen is offline Anabolic Member
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    I'm interested to hear how your progress comes along...i'm about a week and a half to two weeks behind you, so in some ways, I can kind of utilize your progress as a yardstick. With the dbol , it seems like I'm getting INSANE pumps in the muscle groups that usually give me the best pumps...but nothing out of this world at present...just a nice improvement (which I'm still happy with). Also, it seems like i have some strength gains...almost exclusively with the same muscle groups that see the pumps comign on strong.

  14. #14
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Hey BigGreen, what's your training like reps, sets etc? I go real heavy from max singles to 10 rep sets.Does that have anything to do with it?I have never had a pump naturally.What is a pump? what does it feel like? Maybe i had one and never knew it.What kind of dbol are you taking and in what dose?
    Just gave myself 4th inject this morning.First stab was painful, think i hit a nerve, so i withdrew and went about an inch lower on my leg.Still painful but bearable.Anyway just as i'm about to finish i start getting a cough and i'm thinking to myself that i injected into a vein.How do you know if you went into a vein? What are the signs? Would you still get any benefit from the test or is it wasted?
    Back day today, my favourite, and weigh in time as well.Hopefully see some improvements.

  15. #15
    BigGreen's Avatar
    BigGreen is offline Anabolic Member
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    Originally posted by Red5
    Hey BigGreen, what's your training like reps, sets etc? I go real heavy from max singles to 10 rep sets.Does that have anything to do with it?I have never had a pump naturally.What is a pump? what does it feel like? Maybe i had one and never knew it.What kind of dbol are you taking and in what dose?
    I think the pump is too many what pornography is to the Supreme Court: tough to define, but there's no doubt about it when it's present. Or, alternatively, rather than the Supreme Court, we could use Sammy Hagar and Van Halen's "How Do I Know When It's Love"...but that's beside the point. Anyway, I think the best description of a pump I can give is simply that it feels like the muscle is literally ENGORGED with blood during and immediately after the exercise. At times, it feels like the muscle in question is going to bust through the skin. For me, I feel this most intensely in my biceps, hamstrings and lats. The pump is hardest to come by (for me, anyway) in the chest, calves and side delts.

    I'm using straight russian dbol at 35mg/day...will post workout upon return.

  16. #16
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Well boys its the start of week 4 and I'm up to 206lb which is 11lbs in three weeks, not bad i suppose but nothing visible not even any bloat.
    I had the most miserable workout I've had for a long time.I deadlifted last week and got my max weight 3 times.Today I couldn't budge it, it was like it was glued to the floor.It's was so depressing, i was expecting my strength to go up not down.I'm really dissappointed so far with this cycle, I'm thinking the gear must be fake as i'm not seeing any results.
    BigGreen, does getting a pump have anything to do with reps/sets? If i go high reps on side raises, calves, forearms and squats i get a burning sensation which i think is more to do with lactic acid.If that is a pump then i don't see what all the fuss is about as i find them bloody painful.

  17. #17
    BigGreen's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Red5
    does getting a pump have anything to do with reps/sets? If i go high reps on side raises, calves, forearms and squats i get a burning sensation which i think is more to do with lactic acid.If that is a pump then i don't see what all the fuss is about as i find them bloody painful.
    Well, yes and no (for me). I tend to get a better pump on some bodyparts at the 13-15 range and better with others in the 6-8. BUT, that being said, it really doesn't have anything to do with that burning sensation associated with lactic acid...it's more of a "full" feeling in the muscle. Tough to explain. It literally feels like the muscle is swelling...not so much that burning.

  18. #18
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    Scientific definition of pumps

    A pump is a buildup of blood plasma in an individual muscle or groups of muscle. The best way to describe it is this....

    Picture your muscle as a ballon, but in the ballon you have many layers of tissue, which are connected to a capilary bed. So that the cap. bed is fed by an artery, that feeds the muscle. During a workout plasma is forced into the muscle via increased blood pressure. The heart rate increases, stroke volume and VO2 go up. Now, this ballon is connected to the capilary bed, which has two connections to it, an artery and a vein. As more plasma fills the muscle, it takes more blood pressure to fill the muscle and push plasma out and into the capilary, because the capilary is only 1 cell thick and things pass 1 cell at a time or atleast in very small increments. So, basically what you have is called a blood plasma shift. You have plasma entering and filling the muscle giving it a temporary hypertrophy, increased size, possible pain. The resulting pain and/or size is deemed a "pump." So, if you are working a muscle with full force 90% and above for the rep range, you have a feeling of growth and pain, the "pump" we all seek as a biofeedback.

    Hope that helps,
    Rex

    BTW - i suck at spelling.
    Last edited by rexboy; 05-05-2003 at 09:08 PM.

  19. #19
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    I know i need to up my protein and calories, but I am already eating every two hours to the point of making myself sick so the only way i can eat more is to get up earlier and get in an extra meal.I have been doing this for the last few days and i think it's making a difference.
    I noticed first strength gains today while training shoulders.Seated Military press 1rm at the begining of the cycle is now up to 5 reps and every exercise after that is more reps with more weight.Still no pump more like someone is taking a blowtorch to my delts, they are on fire!
    Haven't seen anymore acne since those few zits that appeared in the first week which is fine with me.

  20. #20
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Ok it has now been four weeks and I finished the dbol yesterday.Very dissapointed with the dbol, all it did for me was a couple of zits first week along with painful nips and the worst lower back pain I've had except for when I actually injured my back.It was so bad after deadlifting and squating that i could not bend over to remove the plates from the bar.No pumps or strength gains.Maybe 30mgs was too low a dose?
    Strength has started to go up the last few days, Enanthate kicking in? bench 1rm has gone to 3rm.Still no visible change although people tell me I'm getting bigger, I don't believe them.Clothes are starting to feel a little tighter, especially my jeans and shorts which are really tight around my thighs.I just put that down to them shrinking in the wash rather than me growing.
    Start of week 5 today and fifth shot was the easiest yet.Injected real slow into my quad as the last couple of times i've hit a nerve and had to re-inject and then aspirated, just a couple of bubbles so i start to push on the plunger and this is normally the most painful part for me, if i go to fast it becomes uncomfortable, but this time it went in so fast it was like my body was sucking it out of the needle.Didn't feel a thing, the only weird thing about the it was that this was the last of a 10ml bottle but when i had drawn every last little drop out i only had 1.5cc.Maybe I had drawn to much another time? Has anyone else had this happen? Does it happen every time?

  21. #21
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Forgot to mention weight, 208lb, thats 13lb up from start four weeks ago.

  22. #22
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Strength gains are coming on now, particually chest, shoulders and arms.More weight than the week before and more reps with the same weight.Legs and back aren't showing quite as good gains in strength which is strange because my back is my best part.Legs are my worst (i hate squats, but doesn't everyone?) so no suprise that they are lagging.
    I think I'm getting pumps in my arms, when i train them it feels great like they are really swole.

  23. #23
    darklurker88's Avatar
    darklurker88 is offline Junior Member
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    Man i really think that your gear isnt fake, but your diet and training knowledge seems to be lagging. Now that youve started the cycle, give us more info on the strength gains, perhaps some pics, whats your progress as of lately???
    Im going on the same cycle as you are and expecting much more.
    Ill keep you posted if you wish
    Peace out

  24. #24
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Here is my diet and training:
    07.00 Bowl of oatmeal and protein shake 40 grams protein
    10.00 4 frozen chicken tenderloins and ovenbake fries or baked potato 50grms protein
    11.30-12.30 Train at gym
    12.30 protein shake and banana 50grms protein
    14.00 4 frozen chicken tenderloins and ovenbake fries or baked potato 50grms
    17.00 dinner varies each day ground beef, chicken, pork 40grms
    20.00 sandwich 20 grms
    22.00 slice of toast with peanut butter and protein shake 40grms
    Training split looks like this:
    Day1 Chest, Front Delts
    Day2 Back, rear delts
    Day3 Abs, calves
    Day4 Shoulders
    Day5 Legs, arms
    Day6 off
    Day7 off
    So what do you guys think? Please let me know, good or bad.

  25. #25
    fitsimmons is offline Junior Member
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    I'd have my liver enzymes checked. sounds like you might be illergic to that specific gear. Try switching to just primo & winstrol ...
    My first cycle was almost the same way
    1-4 weeks test prop 400 mg week
    1-4 weeks deca 300 mg week
    during that 1-4 weeks i felt weaker....
    then at 4-8 weeks i did primo 300mg or so
    4-8 50mg winstrol eod....
    during that 4-8 weeks felt awesome....


    now 6 months later i am on a new cycle
    1-5 weeks 400 mg test ethanate works waaay better than prop...
    that is on my body... yours might be the opposite of mine.
    If your liver is fighting this substance that's probably why your not getting good gains and feeling good.

  26. #26
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    I don't think I'm allergic to the gear as i feel ok and am showing no sides, but thanks for the input.
    5 weeks down 5 to go.The injections keep getting easier, this was the best yet, painless going in and hardly any soreness the next day.
    Has anyone ever LOST weight while bulking? Weighed in yesterday at 206lb, 2 down from last week.I am putting this down to lost water weight since stopping dbol , but i do worry that I'm not eating enough.
    I stopped taking nolva the same time i finished the dbol and so far none of the gyno symptoms have returned.
    I was doing shrugs yesterday and saw a vein that i had never noticed before bulging across my traps it was really sticking out, was kinda cool.
    If only i could get the one running along the top of my biceps to do that I would look just like Arnold.

  27. #27
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Started week7 yesterday and guess what.....weight has gone back up! now tipping the scales at 209lb.I'm still not sure about this Test, I was looking forward to the sense of well being that it brings and the increased sex drive, but since stopping the dbol my sex drive has gone downhill and i feel like shit right now.I find it hard to get out of bed in the morning and am getting sick and tired of the endless eating and training.I feel like giving it all up.
    If i feel this bad during the cycle, how bad will it be post cycle?

  28. #28
    Big Presser is offline Junior Member
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    Bro I think it's just about how people respond to certain drugs. The test takes a while to kick in, and you have gained 13 lbs... I'm sure it's starting to do it's stuff. So look on the bright side, 13 lbs is a lot of weight. And you'll be fine post cycle just remain positive and think about how you are gonna be a monster!

    BIG PRESSER

  29. #29
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks man.I think I'm just a little disappointed by the fact that I don't look any different, at least in my eyes.I'm worried that I could be one of those people with body dismorphic disorder, no matter how big and ripped I get I will always feel small when I look at myself in the mirror.

  30. #30
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Ok another week gone and i can report that the sex drive is back.It took a dive after I finished the dbol and strength gains slowed, but I have increased calories as well as changing up my workouts and it is really starting to show now.Traps, delts, legs are all showing gains and my wife seems to think my arms are bigger although I don't see it myself, but there is no denying that the strength is up.My bench 1rm before cycle I can now do for 6 reps.Just my lats that are lagging now which is a shame because my back is what is showing the most growth so far, but ironically the least strength gains.

  31. #31
    BigGreen's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Red5
    Ok another week gone and i can report that the sex drive is back.It took a dive after I finished the dbol and strength gains slowed
    I've been off dbol for one week now and have noticed a similar pattern...though in my case my strength continued to climb while my bodyweight dipped a bit...more or less reaffirming my suspicion that a good chunk of the dbol gain was water.

  32. #32
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    I just finished dbol last week... it actually seems like the sex drive is the same if not better... shit, like they say it's different for everyone. Keep up the great work Red!!!

    HUGE PRESSER

  33. #33
    Andy is offline Associate Member
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    Yo dude
    1. How do you gain 13 lbs and not notice? Make sure your scales arnt broke first :P
    2. Just a lil help on the pump thing: Try this
    After you finish working out one day take an extra 30 minutes and do this routine. If you dont notice a pump after this routine that is better than what you normally achieve. I would be suspect of the stuff.

    Using about 20-25 minutes. Do Multilple consecutive lifts in the 15 -20 range using like 60-70% max. You should be having trouble getting the last few reps. So what I mean is like this

    Bench Press 15-20 , then no break...
    Go immediately Curl machine 15-20 , then no break...
    Go immediately Tri's machine 15-20 , then no break...
    Go immediately to pull downs 15-20 , no break...
    Go do traps for 15-20 etc.. etc.. etc... then repeat the whole cycle really fast with no breaks. Only do the rotation around 3 times.
    Use same weights ever round . You should be able to complet all reps every time- not a max thing.

    The reason I say do this is because me and a good buddy did Pump experiments for ourselves. We found a routine similar in nature to what I just described consistently maximized pump for both of us compared to alternate workouts.

  34. #34
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Hey Andy thanks for sharing your thoughts.
    1. I am carrying a lot of bodyfat right now so muscle gains don't show as clearly.Honestly for the first 5-6 weeks I really didn't see any difference, but I'm at 212lbs thats up 17 from the start and it does show now, upper back, delts and legs.Shirts are getting tighter and I only have one pair of jeans that i can fit into right now and even they are a squeeze.That's such a great feeling, putting on a T-shirt that had baggy sleeves and now it's skin tight.The scales are fine by the way.
    2. I will give your routine a try, I have been doing drop sets on the last set of an exercise to really fry the muscle.

  35. #35
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    Awesome job Red... now let's get an update!

    HUGE PRESSER

  36. #36
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Start of week 9 and I'm stuck indoors babysitting my girl and her friends.Trying to stay calm, but the thought of missing a day at the gym is driving me nuts.Today is when i weigh myself and I'm dying to know if I've gained anything this week.Had a good chest workout yesterday, nice and sore today.Injection went fine this morning, can't believe it will be last one next week.Went through my wardrobe at the weekend trying to find something that still fits as I am down to one pair of jeans and a handful of t-shirts.It was like trying on kids clothes they were so tight.I would buy some more clothes, but I'm saving my money for my next cycle.

  37. #37
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    You poor guy, stuck inside the house with a bunch of girls!

    And I know what you're saying about shirts, as I speak they are becoming harder and harder to pull over the shoulders. Great job bro!

    HUGE PRESSER

  38. #38
    TheJuicer is offline Member
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    Can you believe that those close were actual loose at one time bro!! I'm in my work shirt right now and i need a bigger one..my f**ken arms are too tight! Great job!

  39. #39
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    I don't think you understand me, they are all 12years old and a right pain in the arse! Wanting me to play their stupid board games and shit.Never did get to the gym, now my whole schedule is thrown out.Man that pisses me off.Today has been a right bummer and to top it off i didn't eat that well, maybe scraped in 250g protein.Tomorrow will be better.

  40. #40
    Red5 is offline Associate Member
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    Ok, made it to gym today thank god.I told my daughter that her friend had to go home as there is no way I'm missing two days training.I hate summer holidays, I'm pissed off with it already and its only been two days.I have another five weeks of this shit yet.
    Anyway weighed in at 215lb which means I've hit the magic 20lb mark so many people seem to aim for.I never had any weight gain goals as I really don't care what I weigh, I'm just trying to look the way I want to.
    When I first started training I had just seen Fight Club and thought Brad Pitt had the perfect physique, now four years later having been exposed to all the bodybuilding magazines and websites my perceptions have changed slightly.I saw a picture of him in Fight Club and thought how skinny he looked.

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