04-03-2004, 06:11 PM #1
Johnsomebody at 252; Prop/Var cycle
Now don't laugh, I know physique-wise I'm no great shakes compared with a LOT of bros here, but keep in mind I'm 6'5". I just finished my second cycle, Prop & Var, and thought I'd post the results so maybe others can learn from my experience.
Week 1-2, 100mg every 36hrs
Week 3-5 100mg eod
Week 5-10 100mg/day
Week 2-10 40mg/day
I had a boatload of QV Prop and wanted to use it since it was supposed to be reliable and it would allow me to vary the dose as I went along to see how it affected me, which explains why it varies.
I started lifting many moons ago, starting @170lbs.
First cycle, test & EQ, last summer starting @224, end @242, after coming off @236.
Started Prop/Var six mos later at @236, end @252, have lost about 5 since then, all water.
1. PAIN, RELENTLESS PAIN!!! I spent the first five weeks at least feeling like I'd been beaten all over by a baseball bat from those prop shots. The shots are fine going in but after 24 hours or so really start to sting and stay WAY sore for days after. Meaning as I rotated shoulders, thighs and butt shots I hurt all three places more or less constantly. I even had trouble getting up from sitting down. I once got stuck on the floor of a grocery store when I'd gotten down on my knees to dig something out from the bottom shelf and couldn't find any way to pull myself up with my arms. I'd only been shooting legs til then and they were useless. SOLUTION: I'd been warned I should dilute Prop 1:1 with sterile oil and finally started using it week five. RESULTS: No more pain or at least very little. LESSON: Nearly all props seem to cause pain for some reason, even Viromones from what people on them have told me. Diluting whether with sterile oil or some other gear makes a huge diff.
2. I had a big libido boost the first few weeks but that fell to below normal after that. In fact it seemed like the higher the dose the less sex drive, which surprised me. Test seems to affect me the opposite of a lot of people in that respect. LESSON: I think if I do this again I'll have Proviron standing by.
3. I noticed some water retention from the Prop early on and started .25ml LDex/day along with 10mg Nolva which seemed to help. But I discontinued them about week six or so, just to see what happened, and didn't seem to notice much difference. I did however get some edema near the end (swelling from water retention, in my left foot for some reason) which one Nolva stopped immediately. LESSON: Even Prop causes water retention, better use anti-es throughout.
4. The worst side was lethargy and mental dullness. I assume test was the culprit as it was the same with my first cycle, but it seemed like Var played a part in that too. (A weird coincidence: both cycles I never balanced my checkbook until I was on the Clomid. Yikes what a mess. ) LESSON: Duh, I dunno. What was the question again?
5. I'd planned on pushing my cardio conditioning while I was on the cycle but that was WAY impossible. I noticed a big loss of cardio capacity early on, & got wheezy just walking sometimes. I'd also get killer pumps that were genuinely painful -in my shoulders when I swam laps and in the FRONT of my calves, along my shins, when I tried to walk or hike, to the point I'd have to stop walking from the pain. That's totally cleared up now that I'm off and it seems like my cardio capacity is back just fine. LESSON: Don't plan on improving your cardio fitness on a cycle -just hanging on may be all you can do.
1. Var has a particularly bad effect on HDL/LDL levels and I wouldn't recommend it for anyone with high cholesterol levels for that reason. It just means that while you're on it you're susceptable, as I understand it, to the buildup of plaque on your arteries from diminishede HDL and increased LDL. I went in with a total cholesterol of 150 and I avoided sat fats like the plague so I wasn't too concerned but it's always something to consider.
2. I'm told there's a possibility the internal inflamation from the Prop can increase the risk of cancer (from free radicals possibly?) but I haven't researched it.
NOT ENOUGH FOOD! I got at least 400g protein/day throughout but my cals ranged from 3500-4000 usually, which just wasn't enough looking back. Part of it is I can't stand eating if I'm not hungry and part is just fear of fat. At my age I don't want to have to deal with either carrying excess fat or trying to lose it. LESSON: COUNT YOUR CALORIES!! And I mean meticulously for a few days early in your cycle to make sure you're getting enough. My brain knew all along I should have been getting 4500/day minimum but as usual my fat-paranoia and general food aversion won out.
POST CYCLE NOTES:
1. I did HCG 500iu about 2X/week all through the cycle and had little shrinkage, though I'm still down from the start. Prop & Var seemed way less suppressive in that respect than test/EQ did. I also did six days of HCG 500iu/day before hitting the Clomid.
2. I actually tapered my Prop dose the last several days, ending at 50mg. About four days later out of the blue I got hit hard by killer Hay Fever -sneezed my head off all day, sinuses immediately plugged up bad, couldn't sleep, sinuses got infected, had to go to the doc for nasal cortisone spray. I'd been totally fine up til that day. Maybe it was a weird coincidence but I think coming off the cycle must have had something to do with it from immunosuppression.
CONCLUSION: I remember a year ago when I was at 224 this monster trainer at the gym told me he thought I'd look great at 250 and that should be a goal. I really hadn't kept that in mind but it is cool to have made that weight in a year. My gains have not been huge on either of my cycles for my size but I doubt I could have come close to them naturally.
Sorry for such a loooong post but I hope at least some of this is helpful.
Last edited by johnsomebody; 04-08-2004 at 08:35 PM.
04-03-2004, 10:24 PM #2
Great post bro, and from the first pic I saw of you, you definitely look better!!!! I don't like hearing about the Prop pain since I will be kick starting my next cycle with it. I still don't get the libido thing....I have been so **** horny, It getting old!!!
Congrats bro!! (now lets get you thinking about cycle III)
04-08-2004, 08:38 PM #3
In just the five days or so since that original post I've gone down TEN pounds. I'm eating just as much, getting less cardio and have shortened my routines.
That means I maybe gained 4lbs from this cycle. TOTALLY NOT WORTH IT!!!!! I doubt I'm gonna put myself through that again.
04-14-2004, 04:03 PM #4Originally Posted by johnsomebody
**** bro, I hate to hear that. It pisses me off to no end. something just isn't right. I have barely lost 2 pounds and I'm not even lifting??
05-30-2004, 01:18 AM #5Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
I just found this JSB. Great info, here. I've been doing a lot of research on var lately. The information you provided here was helpful. Thanks.
You look like you're making good progress, bro. Keep up the good work!
Last edited by BASK8KACE; 05-30-2004 at 01:46 AM.
05-30-2004, 03:49 PM #6
Maybe this thread is evidence that getting too obsessed with the scale can be more trouble than it's worth. I'm still way stronger than I was, none of my lifts have really gone down since the cycle, so maybe I did put on a decent amount of muscle mass -what else would do that?
Another odd side effect is I'm somewhat hairier.
06-07-2004, 10:45 AM #7
did you check your bf% before and after?
06-07-2004, 01:58 PM #8
No, I just monitor my waist size which was the same at the end, as it was on my first cycle. On this and the previous cycle I put on a little fat starting about a month after the cycle ended, which I'm assuming is from estrogen rebound. I lost it pretty easily last time and I assume I will this time too -maybe it's cuz the estrogen level normalizes eventually.
One thing I noticed is that early in the cycle I started holding water, which did raise my waist size a little, and it went down to normal as soon as I went off the Prop.
06-07-2004, 02:33 PM #9
youre starting to add some serious mass bro...........keep it up.
hows everything been otherwise? drop me a pm if you have time.
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