New to site . Undecided

[ebaker3]

Greetings to the all! I'm new to this message board and mind this site very informative. The questions which has bugged the heck out of me is... should I?

Should I stay natural or go the other route. I've talked with everyone and it's about 75% (Juice) and 25% Nat. I submitting some photos to get some feedback regarding this. I've been natural all my weightlifting years and want to take it to the National level. I've always competed at the middle weight class, have never done a "All Natural Show" meaning there was no drug test required. And despite this I've won and placed in every show I've entered, but never first overall. FYI:The shows I've entered were all State and Local. Need advice!!!

And I was suggested to try using Prohormones and stay away from the other stuff.

Weight: 189
BF%: 7%
Photo taken: 07/14/02
Next planned show: Aug 17,18 2002

Precontest Dieting now!

[ebaker3]

Another photo.

Any advice is welcomed!

Thank you all!

[Fullback0934]

you are looking good, keep it up

[big N]

look awesome brother,now to your question .no one can realy awnser that question but you.its your body and the risks and the sides ivolved will afeect you no one else.yiue have great genetics ,u didnt tell us your age.if u feel and see taht you have reached your genetic potential and have hit a wall ,and you want to pursue this to the next level then as is the way, i mean u can only get so big naturally.so if thats the case then as might be for you ,if u feel u can still grow naturally and are happy the way things are turning out then id stay natural.

[goldenFloyd]

great quads bro. If you want to compete national level, you will probably need to hit the sauce. Calves, Biceps need to catch up to the rest of your amazing physique. You have great potential if you got there all natural. best of luck and welcome to AR.

[ebaker3]

I've was very uneducated regarding roids info. I was afraid I would take a shot and be one the one to keel over from it "Pure Ignorance". What about Prohormones? Would it make sense to try them and see what kind of growth I could get? I haven't really reached a dead-in yet, but my growth is slowing down. I aware that I have to make the final choice... just looking for some info to help me make that choice. And if I did make that choice any advice on which ones to begin with. Since I have some size already I'm assuming that I don't have to start with a beginner stack. I'm also interested in getting rid of hard to lose body fat and have educated myself regarding the use of clen . VPX sports make a product similiar in name but how effective is it compared to the "real" clen.

[MIKE_XXL]

Hey Bro you have a great phisique, i would say stay natural for now and educate your self about the use of gear and when you are totaly comfortible making the decission to be or not to be on juice, make the next neccessary step then...no one can answer that for you but you, and you have already achived a lot in a natural weay bro, you look really good, good luck at the show...XXL

[ebaker3]

Thank you for the compliments. I'm in my early thirties and figured that one cycle is worth a try. After the competiton season is over I plan to give it a try. I'll first try to see if I can put some more size on with a diet change, weight lifting scheme, etc., and during this time I will contine to educate myself. I was also looking into a clen /eca stack in preparations for a show in 8 weeks I'm doing. Although I may as to the advise of other members on this site to just stay clean and work harder on the diet/cardio. This site is the BOMB for knowledge!

Peace

[cube]

ebaker3, great physique.

regarding prohormones: unless you have some personal moral/ethic against as, you would be better off using as instead of prohormones. this is just my opinion but given that qualitatively prohormones behave like v.v.v. weak as, why bother with prohormones when the results of an as cycle would be far superior in every way. plus the cost of prohormones is in many cases comparable with the cost of an as cycle. as others have said, in the end its your decision - good luck with whatever you choose.

cube.

[RON]

Prohormones are crap IMO. Especially that VPX stuff. You would be better off continuing what you are doing. It has works well so far.

A far as the Anabolics go. That's up to you. To be honest at a national level you will need them. However you look great right now without them. So it depends on what you want and what your personal views.

BTW congrats on doing o well naturally and good luck at the show

[thickmass]

I agree with the above comments and your own, ebaker3.

Prohormones were hyped a few years ago but the concensus among users was they did fuck-all except cause some gyno.

I have a friend who, like you, gained a lot of size naturally and wanted to try a steroid cycle. Did he use medicinal amounts as a test run? Hell no.

You already know you have great genetics for size and shape and your body will be catapulted by aas to a greater level.

He did a 12 week cycle just consisting of 1250mg/week of sustanon , 1200mg/week of deca and also about 50mg of dbol .

After about a week he didnt like what the dbol was doing so stopped taking it.

But after 12 weeks he had reconfigured his body composition by dropping a LOT of fat and gaining an enormous amount of muscle. Which was great for a guy who is a vegetarian.

So my advice for your "trial" cycle is make it at least 10 weeks and go for at least 1,000mg of test a week. Any less with your genetics would be short-changing yourself.

[Pete235]

My advice is always the same when somebody is thinking of crossing the line. A) Make the decision...yes or no. There is no half way. It is a decision you have to make 100% on your own bro. Nobody will tell you do it or don't do it, the ball is in your court B) If you decide yes, begin researching (this board is FULL of great, pertanent information) and decide on a cycle you think may work for you based on your goals C) Post your proposed cycle and then we can make and changes, suggestions or comments that may or may not be warranted. Good luck bro, let us know what you decide.

Pete

[Pete235]

BTW...your physique is already spectacular! Nice full muscle bodies, with asthetically pleasing sweeping lines and great definition. It's no surprise that you always place at the top of your class.

[swin05]

dude you are fantastic!! look how great U already are!! I would stay natural and take a sec to really review the gains and all U have now!!!!

[ebaker3]

Thats why I'm researching about AS now....I want to take it to National Level and further. I know it takes dedication, motivation, support and more to go that next level. I have the mindset that once I make my mind up that it's do or die trying (figure of speech). I train along side George Farah and Bob Chicherillo (well chic just recently moved to LA). I have watched them grow from Local Winners to Olympia Qualifiers. It made me envious to see them raise to the top while I just won the local and state shows. I always swore I'd stay Natural but that was before I understood about AS. That using any type of Supplement in the wrong way can be the beginning of the end. It all about being responsible when using AS along with the correct mindset. I don't want to get to be a old man and look back wondering what I could have done. I'm going to look for a good cycle to begin with and post it. The questions I ask anyone is this:

A)Should I wait until this competition season is over for me (September) to start something.
B) Making the next step in a responsible and safe way is it a good possibility that I'll see a big difference by Next competiton season (June--->)? This is of course if I do things correctly..diet, training, rest, mindset...etc
c) Since I have some size already should I still start with a novice cycle?


Peace

[Pete235]

Originally posted by ebaker3
A)Should I wait until this competition season is over for me (September) to start something.
B) Making the next step in a responsible and safe way is it a good possibility that I'll see a big difference by Next competiton season (June--->)? This is of course if I do things correctly..diet, training, rest, mindset...etc
c) Since I have some size already should I still start with a novice cycle?

A) That sounds lie a good plan

B) Let me put it this way, my first cycle was a year ago, I'm about to finish my third, they have all been somewhat modest as far as dosages go and I'm carrying about 20-25lbs extra on my 5'10" frame. Better plan on competing as a Lightheavy

C) A novice cycle would be perfect IMO. Something modest and logical. You already know how to eat and train so you should be able to realize 15-20lbs from your first cycle.

[Rocket]

You look great dude, keep doing what you are doing..it's working!

Rocket

[Little Jonah]

wow bro looking good nice and cut. Like pete said only you can decide on taking AS

[Carlos_E]

Originally posted by swin05
dude you are fantastic!! look how great U already are!! I would stay natural and take a sec to really review the gains and all U have now!!!!

I have nothing against AS, I've also considered it, but decided to stay natural. I agree with swin05, stay natural and try throwing some changes into your diet and workout routine that will shock your body and cause it to continue to grow. You look great, just think about it and make the best decision for you.

[ebaker3]

That is way it such a tough choice...Do you have a training scheme that will add about 15-25 pounds of lean muscle, without the 2 tons of fat with it, and staying Natural during the entire time. Please TELL ME!

I have come up with a few conclusions from researching: What are my chances of say like winning my weight class in the NPC Nationals without AS. Yea I can get ripped but the competition is BIG and Ripped. I read about Mike Ashley and Skip Lacour who swear they are Natural but are they really? My short term goal is to become a Top NPC National Competitor and my long term goal is to become a IFBB pro. Yea it's a tough goal to achieve but anything is achieveable! I've never have competed in a Natural (Drug Tested) show and have gone against some guys who I can assume where using AS. I have beat them and some have beat me...so I know that using AS won't guarantee you a win but it does help, this is of course with proper training, diet, etc... I've believe that if I applied the same training intensity that I use now along with AS my chances of reaching the top are greater. I look at the competition on the National level and have to be true to myself about how far I will go as a Natural.

1) If I did use AS and I began to have health problems I would quit using them. NO IFS, ANDS or BUTS.

2) If after using AS and I still haven't reached a certain point after a reasonable amount of time I will stop

[Carlos_E]

Originally posted by ebaker3
That is way it such a tough choice...Do you have a training scheme that will add about 15-25 pounds of lean muscle, without the 2 tons of fat with it, and staying Natural during the entire time. Please TELL ME!

I have come up with a few conclusions from researching: What are my chances of say like winning my weight class in the NPC Nationals without AS. Yea I can get ripped but the competition is BIG and Ripped. I read about Mike Ashley and Skip Lacour who swear they are Natural but are they really? My short term goal is to become a Top NPC National Competitor and my long term goal is to become a IFBB pro. Yea it's a tough goal to achieve but anything is achieveable! I've never have competed in a Natural (Drug Tested) show and have gone against some guys who I can assume where using AS. I have beat them and some have beat me...so I know that using AS won't guarantee you a win but it does help, this is of course with proper training, diet, etc... I've believe that if I applied the same training intensity that I use now along with AS my chances of reaching the top are greater. I look at the competition on the National level and have to be true to myself about how far I will go as a Natural.

1) If I did use AS and I began to have health problems I would quit using them. NO IFS, ANDS or BUTS.

2) If after using AS and I still haven't reached a certain point after a reasonable amount of time I will stop

After reading your comment, I say go for it. There are a lot of knowledgeable guys here I'm sure can help you out.

[letmein]

Don't beleive the nats are nat. 3 years off and you can claim natural. Or take something that clears during your cutting cycle. You might as well as you are going to compete against those that are whether they admit it or not.

[Dr. Derek]

If you are going to compete at a national level NPC or NABBA show you will most likely have to use AAS. I would say that you chould go the route of competeing and trying to turn pro in a natural orginization, your physique is awesome and you have the potential. Pick up a copy of the latest Natural Bodybuilder Magazine and read through it and look at the photo's of some of the pros, you could beat them

Good luck and I'm sure you will do which ever way you chose.

[Pete235]

Originally posted by Carlos_E
After reading your comment, I say go for it. There are a lot of knowledgeable guys here I'm sure can help you out.

I agree Carlos. You also have a great physique and it is perfect for your chosen sport (gymnastics) right now. But ebaker3 is thinking of jumping into the pool with the big boys and I feel in order to be competitive he has to play on an even playing field. Like Dr. D said, that involves using AAS.

[reli]

dont debate your decision so much about using or not using
in my opinion you should use it now or forget about it when u gonna use it when u are grandpa..

[ebaker3]

Originally posted by Dr. Derek
If you are going to compete at a national level NPC or NABBA show you will most likely have to use AAS. I would say that you chould go the route of competeing and trying to turn pro in a natural orginization, your physique is awesome and you have the potential. Pick up a copy of the latest Natural Bodybuilder Magazine and read through it and look at the photo's of some of the pros, you could beat them

Good luck and I'm sure you will do which ever way you chose.

I'm in competition training right now and don't plan to do something until after October. I would like to try some OTC prohormones just to get the feel of things. I'm aware that some are junk while others are getting rave reviews. Is there any Prohormones that can help prepare me for the contest. Something that will get me hard and lean. Any advice would be appreciated.

[reli]

dude once u try prehormonesu going to be so turned off you wont get the feel for anything the only thing u going to get is extra hair on yout back and wasting your money i am not suggesting u do anything but if you decide to the only way to go is anabolic STEROIDS