Cutting from 251

[Warrior]

Well - here are some of my updates and my next move...

I have moved to a 2X/day split with Tren /Prop/Winny @ 75/50/50 ED... Calories will be almost 2000 during the week and back to 2500 Saturday, 3000 Sunday, then back to low calorie week. I will try this and see how it goes. Starting at 251lbs - want to lean down to 220 - 230.

I am trying to fine tune it (with help from mmaximus) and it may change depending on how it goes. Perhaps a closer calorie stagger. I am writing down all my workouts to judge muscle wasteing (load, reps, sets, time to complete workout, how I felt, ...). Obviously the initial days are a bit rough (especially coming off a high calorie bulk) as gycogen stores become depleted - but soon enough the body learns to except fat, so I am not to worried about strength levels this weekend and next week.

So far so good - moving into my 4th day at, at least 1500 calories below my BMR . Today I added 12 ounces of grapefruit juice after the morning cardio. Most of diet come from MRP... a whole food meal after both training sessions. This will be my first diet down on androgens so it'll be interesting for me. So far at has been much more tollerable than natural - probably from the added testosterone . By next week the Prop/Tren/Winny should all be showing something. And much better the third week.

Here is my pic, beginning my first cycle. This was about 3 weeks into my beginners stack - it would have been better had the Equipoise been testosterone and Primo was simply not used:

Deca : 800/400/400/400/400/000/000/000/000/000/000/000
Primo: 600/300/100/000/000/000/000/000/000/000/000/000
Equip: 000/000/000/000/100/300/300/300/300/300/300/300



Here is me today at 250 on third day of cut down (BTW - I feel flat from low cal/low carb):

[Warrior]

First pic was in mid October, 2002 - second was January 4, 2003. So a little better than two months progress

[FireFighter]

looking good man!! holy shit man you gotta learn to get outta the tanning bed earlier! hahah lookin good though bro and good luck with cuttin up!

[Warrior]

lol - the pic was shot on Kodak Royal Gold film and scanned with a Coolscan film scanner. Kodak film tends to give me a warm tone. I am tan - not burnt though

[Warrior]

[Nevermind]

Looking great bro, looks like you got some huge arms.

[Jack87]

Looking good bro... Can't wait to see you cut up... Got some nice size... How bout some stats? Guns, Chest, Quads etc?

[Warrior]

Originally posted by buff87
Looking good bro... Can't wait to see you cut up... Got some nice size... How bout some stats? Guns, Chest, Quads etc?

Thanks gents.

My starting stats from Jan 3rd are: bodyweight: 251 lbs, neck 18", quad, 27", waist 40" ( I measured around the hip bone ...), arms 19", forearm, 14"

Continuing to prioritze biceps and delts. Both have improved since October. And I can see it with the pics next to each other in this thread. If I could add an ounce of muscle during this cut down - it would be on the biceps to bring me up to 20".

I have already switched a lot of fat weight to muscle weight and have gotten bigger - while staying around 250... second pic looks much more vascular and bigger (easy to spot when comparing the head size)... guess my "bulking phase" set me up for cutting phase - and I was eating a lot - high cal see food diet boosted by the Equipoise .

But anyway - time to dial this braddah in!

[majorpecs]

Sweet..keep this updated Warrior, I am fixing to pick up the phone myself in about 3 weeks....looking good braddah!

[Buddha_Red]

looking great bro!

Keep up the gains and the great work! Be proud!

[pumpseeker]

It sounds like you are working hard toward your goals and it shows! Keep us posted and good work.

[Warrior]

My blood pressure is low but after the first shot (like 4 days ago) and still today I feel pressure by my bladder... probably prostate. I grabbed some standardized Saw Palmetto today - if that does not help... I will cut Prop down to 50mg EOD before stopping altogether...

As far as herbs - I am running Milk Thistle and now Saw Palmetto.

[superbeast]

Looking good. I have to say that I think you are going about this cutting thing all wrong. At 1500 calories under BMR, you are going to sacrifice a lot of muscle. My suggestion would be to increase cardio, drop fat intake to 10%, protein at 2g per lb, and complex whole grain carbs to make up the rest of your diet. Calories shouldn't be cut more than 200-300 per week. Losing more than 2 lbs a week is a surefire way to waste away muscle.

SB

[Warrior]

True that. I wouldn't be so drastic under natural conditions. But, as of 5 days in and a huge diesel rush today I am up 2 pounds I added a couple seving of carbs today from spinach pasta so it is probably just me filling back up with some water. But I am keeping very close records on any muscle wasting - so far none. The first couple I was pretty slugish... with no change. However, I have actually increased strength the last two days. Got a love this shit... it really kicked in today and I felt really vascular (especially in chest area) and pumped. The Prop/Tren /Winny are really jacking me up.

Saw Palmetto is showing some postives so i don't see any reason to lower the Prop dose yet. I am deffinitly sensitive to testosterone (especially when running with something else very androgenic , trenbolone ).

[Warrior]

All right - I was too drastic and it is showing in my results and general disposition - especially tonight, I felt beat and my strength was low. But still looking more vascular.

I did some more reading and found someone did a test on his BMR to find out that Trenbolone increased it by 1000 calories! If his findings were even close to accurate - I am way off on this. The gear is increasing the metabolism and I am lowering calories and increasing actvity.

I am going to do a shorter calorie stagger: 3 days a week low carb, 1 day moderate, and then an increase through the weekend.

Taking about 10-12 Saw Palmetto capsules during the day and the Prostate pains (BPH) subsided - I gots to remember that one! Saw Palmetto is the shit...

[tt333]

It looks like you lost some fat on your love handles and your chest has gotten more toned. Keep up the good work bro!

[Pete235]

I hate to say this and please don't take it as a flame, but I personally don't see any change at all. Dude, I'm not raining on your parade or trying to be negative but 2 months using what you're using should produce some pretty obvious results. Have your measurements changed? Because in those pics I don't see a reduction of bf. Again, I'm not being a prick just trying to be honest. I give you props for posting your pics and sharing your knowledge, but maybe I'm missing something.

[nuke]

Pete..Is that you ? Wow.....A nice honest review...Its the new Pete !

[Pete235]

Originally posted by nuke
Pete..Is that you ? Wow.....A nice honest review...Its the new Pete !

Yes, I'm being honest without being disrespectful I feel. Like I said W, I don't begrudge the efforts you've made I just feel from the pics I've seen that you may want to re-evaluate your program. Hope there's no hard feelings bro as that is not my intention.

[Warrior]

Originally posted by Pete235
I hate to say this and please don't take it as a flame, but I personally don't see any change at all. Dude, I'm not raining on your parade or trying to be negative but 2 months using what you're using should produce some pretty obvious results. Have your measurements changed? Because in those pics I don't see a reduction of bf. Again, I'm not being a prick just trying to be honest. I give you props for posting your pics and sharing your knowledge, but maybe I'm missing something.

Wow... really. I see the change most definitly. I feel it everyday. Getting back into the gym after being put on some Prednisone that ate me up pretty bad. I am feeling much better today - that Deca /Eq really helped me rebuild as a post convalecent.

Measurements, not really. But I wish I would have. All my shirts got a hell of a lot tighter - my arms blew up from about 17.5 to near 20, and then dropped back down to 19, which I maintain today (a little better than 19's as I type this cold). My BF is lower. My Triceps are pushing almost 200lbs on a cambered extension... I have nearly out grown some of the equipment nin my gym. People here really see it, but I guess posting pics on the computer don't give as much justice.

I don't know brah... but I have gotten a hell of a lot thicker - a lot of the old shirts are simply too small now.

The biggest change was Delts and Biceps which I prioritized - let me dig for more pics...

[Warrior]

Here is another comparison. I don't know if it helps you any - but the first pick my arms were a little better than 17... the second is at 19. And hopefully it shows some torso development. Like I said... shirts are way tighter and some I don't wear anymore. A little better than 2 months brah...

[Warrior]

You seriously don't see the difference?

[00Mack00]

Looking good bro. The only one that can stop you is you. Thick legs. Makes me remember when I had some. LOL. Good luck on the cutting.

Mack

[Pete235]

Warrior, bro, like I said...from your numerous posts I think your a great guy and an asset to this board. You are very helpful and respectful and believe me it is not my intention to piss you off...and I am not issinuating anything. I just have a hard time seeing the change. Maybe your arms are very thick but they don't look 19" bro. This is a pic of my arm (I was bloated from dbol ) and in this pic my arm was just under 18". Now granted I'm only 5'10" and you have 2" on me but your arm does not look 1.5" larger (again bro, this is not a pissing match and if I'm offending you in anyway, please, please let me know, for that is not my intention).

[Warrior]

I wish I had a digital camera to show you with the tape around them. Yes, they are 19 - cold. They jump over 19 pumped. I don't know what to tell you Pete, I don't sugar coat shit. I gave all my measurements. I am very thick at 6 foot yes.

I'll have my buddy that works over at the gym as a trainer tape them - he uses the same tape (he gave me my roll) and has taped me the same as my results before... but I will have him do it too. If I get 19, he gets 19 - then they are 19 in my book - if I don't see him for a few days hopefully I will even be up a few points... but I will let you know... and I will ask him what he taped them at back in October too - to verify the beginning size.

[thetank]

Originally posted by Warrior
You seriously don't see the difference?

the difference is definately noticable warrior. delts are very noticabley improved also.
pete, pictures are very decieving. some make my arms look like 20 inchers some like theyre 16, at 6' 250, ide say those arms look 19'.

[Warrior]

Thanks Tank. You got some awesome size on you to brah...

Pete... my buddy wasn't there, but I had another guy do it. He measured 19.25. So take it as you want it. BTW - when comparing a 180 pound bodybuilder's changes, it can be much more noticable in pics. But when looking at the heavy weights you kind of have to look at things that don't change... like size of hands, head size, stuff to make a better comparison. Cuz when you get to a certain size, 5, 10... 15 pounds of muscle soaks right up. And in my case, I added the muscle and leaned up.

Anyway, I had some health concerns on my stack (some tenderness in lower abdominal area - possibly BPH) and have cut the Tren dose in half and dropped the Winstrol . Tren/Prop @ 30/50 ED for now on. Keeping Saw Palmetto and adding Zinc for this reason.

Body weight is actually gone up to a leaner 255! This guy was built for size! Even with morning cardio and clean diet - I added muscle. Not sure if I should bring back down the calories - or just role with it... I think I will just role with it.

I will be getting a hydrostatic bodyfat test done at the end of the month.

[Pete235]

Like I said earlier brother, I think you are definate asset to this board and one of the good guys. It was not my intention to piss on your parade and I apologize if that's what happened. I hope there are no hard feelings as there are none on my end.

Pete

[Nevermind]

Bro i see big difference, keep up the good work.. and dont stop posting your progress pics cuz some Mod dissed you.. keep em coming broo

[Pete235]

Originally posted by Nevermind
and dont stop posting your progress pics cuz some Mod dissed you..

I didn't "diss" anybody! I merely stated my personal opinion in a respectfuil manner. It's been said before, but even though we don't allow flaming here at AR, if you post your pics be prepared for all comments, negative and positive. Also, I never once discouraged from from continuing to post pics or results, I didn't say it was bullshit and I didn't insult him. That is just my personal opinion. BTW...being a mod means shit, I don't consider my opininons to hold any more weightthan the rest of our members. So I suggest in the future you read everything before making assumptions!

[nuke]

Pete, way to go brother..Youre a good guy and the last thing Pete would do to ANYONE is "diss" their physique. It takes some huge balls to post your pic on here....

[mmaximus25]

Keep up the work Warrior your leaning up, On that PM though I dont think you have that much BF to drop to 220, I think 230 @ 9 is reasonable...220 would take it's toll on your muscle... A drastic measure that would cut more bf and preserve muscle, my tech. no more Carbs after 2:00 meal all protein low fat and heavy use of stimulants for energy in the gym, thermognics I mean... making sure you mix a glutamine-liquid amino, dextrose mix heavily diluted in water during work out. protein before and after and sleeping aide to put you down and slow your metabolism....
try that 4lap = to 1min constant jump rope in morning I told you about... 5 sets = 5mins =2000meters total

[Warrior]

Originally posted by mmaximus25
Keep up the work Warrior your leaning up, On that PM though I dont think you have that much BF to drop to 220, I think 230 @ 9 is reasonable...220 would take it's toll on your muscle... A drastic measure that would cut more bf and preserve muscle, my tech. no more Carbs after 2:00 meal all low fat and heavy use of stimulants for energy in the gym, thermognics I mean... making sure you mix a glutamine -liquid amino, dextrose mix heavily diluted in water during work out. protein before and after and sleeping aide to put you down and slow your metabolism....
try that 4lap = to 1min constant jump rope in morning I told you about... 5 sets = 5mins =2000meters total

MMaximus - I'll stop carb in the evening. My weight has actually gone up in the last week. I jumped to 255lbs - but I see the vascularaty and veins popping up in my forearms, chest and abdominals... so I guess I am recomposing well. The only carbs I have been eating in the evening are from my post workout, whole wheat bread, stir fry veggies, beans, ...

When you mention the cardio - what basic heart rate do you go for? I find my heart is pumping faster and I am sweating more recently. I can try the jump rope - in fact I would like to get back into running and sprints, but was going to bike my way down to a more reasonable weight for my knees first...

It was deffinitly the Trenbolone causing the abdominal soreness - it is completely gone today. I am going to try and continue it at the lower 30-35mgs per day to add a little nonaromatizing androgenic activity to the Test Propinate. Not a huge dose - but under this stack I don't seem to tollerate much more. My system just sucks it up. Cheaper scripts for me!

BTW Pete - no hard feelings at all brah... I would rather have some comments than none. But remember, when I post something - I don't sugar coat shit. When I come back with 20's - they will be 20's.

[cosworth]

I definetly see some progress Warrior. Keep up the hard work!!!
CR.

[JYZZA]

good job bro. Your legs look like you put lots of effort to develop them.

[Warrior]

This is my current split for evening resistance training - I have been using it about 6 weeks now but finally began writing everything down last week. I have made my best gains the last few years when on this split, especially when keeping good records of my workouts :

A = GVT (2-3 days rest for small bodyparts, 3-4 for large), B=POF (3-4 days rest for small, 4-5 for large), C=Holistic (4-5 days rest for small, 5-6 for large).

Worked in something like this:

Chest: A, B, A, C, repeat
Back: A, B, A, C, repeat
Delts: A, B, C repeat
Biceps: A, B, C repeat
Triceps: A, B, A, C, repeat
Calves: A, B, A, C, repeat
Quads: B, B, C, repeat
Hams: A repeated
Abs: B, B, C, repeat

Currently prioritzing Delts and Biceps.

A) GVT = German Volume Training. 10 sets of 10 reps, flat pyramid, 60 second RI's. For strength and hypertrophy.

B) POF = Positions of Flexion. Basically what 90 percent of the people in the gym try andd do. For limit strength.

C) Holistic = 1) Power Movement (4-5 reps), 2) Rythmic Movement (12-15 reps), 3) Holistic (40 reps). Done non stop - on big Giant set. Extreme intensity. An example of Delt day was using 1) Hammer Front Press (4-5 reps), 2) Standing Side Laterals (12-15 reps), and 3) Upright rows (40 reps). Like I said, you go non stop from exercise to exercise - not necessarily ever needing a spot (unless safety is an issue) but dropping weight as you get fatiqued. Last Holistic Delt workout I did this: 1,2,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,3,1,2,1,3,1. Took about 20 minutes from start to end. Talk about a pump! If you are familiar with Power Factor Training, this scores a really high Power Index. Great for hypertrophy - not necessarily strength. You switch from fast-twitch, to slow-twitch, to fast-twitch, to slow-twitch, ... This can easily overtrain an Intermediate or Beginnner - just on CNS involvement alone. And you can see why this gets the most rest days You can work out hard - or you can work out long... can't do both.

[Warrior]

BTW - have been running Tren /Prop back at 75/50 ED with no problems. I will end on Tren/Winstrol (75/50 ED). Deffinitly getting hard - even was prompted to shave a bit...

[Madsicilian]

Nice progress Warrior, I do see a diff. in your shoulders. We can't knock Pete for his comments, we all post pics here for people like Pete to see and give their honest opinions. These opinions are so important as they fuel us to work harder. Sometimes its someone just flaming, but Pete is giving an honest opinion that will help, not hurt.

Keep up the good work Warrior.

[Decoder]

why are you on Prednisone, I am also on it.

[Pinch]

Good luck cutting!

lookin big