Middle Eastern Conflict

[tolinka]

wanted to know whats your opinion on the Middle Eastern conflict?

[Darkknight442]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Tolinka you reallly don't value my opinion. lol jk

Well i'll tell everyone what i told you. It bohters me but you know what you never really know everything thats going on, yah know. Governements are always keeping stuff out of publiuc view. And the media always adds stuff to hype it up!., thats why i don't bother. You don't know what the hell is going on. yah know>?

[Buddha_Red]

That part of the world has been fighting for 2000 years, it will never stop

[physio_sport]

my opionion is that the Palestinians are right. i dont agree with suacide bombings i think they are very cowerdly but i do feel they need to fight back.
the isreals have nukes,big army,$7 million dollar militry funding from america, tanks, bomberjets.
what do the Palestinians have?
they told yasir arafat not to leave his building and he couldnt even step outside.
how are the Palestinians a threat to isreal.
i think they want the land of the Palestinians.
they tried to buy it a long time a go but the Palestinians wouldant sell it too them.

this is just my opionion.

[BOUNCER]

ISRAEL


I've said my bit here.

[BOUNCER]

ISRAEL


I've said my bit here.

http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=28800

[Zoolander]

Ya Ya we all know that you are Pro-Israel Bouncer
and
you are Pro-Palestine physio

But it is extremely sad to see the cycle of violance going on there.

Israel launches an offensive on the palestines,
alot of people die including the innocent,
this in turn turns normal people to turn irrational,
which in turn causes irrational people to act out of anger and revenge, thus the suicide bombings,
which in turn kill innocent lives thus in turn leading to another israel offensive.
And it goes on and on.


I am totally against the suicide bombing. I find it stupid and totally against the teaching of Islam. However I can understand the logic behind it although it is also wrong. These suicide bombings are the result of desperation of not knowing any other way out. Which is I repeat WRONG! WRONG! and Wrong!

Acts of terror creates terrorist.
Acts of love creates lovers

[gotenks]

A few things here how hamas came to be :

http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID...2-051845-8272r

And hers a history lesson how israel came to eb

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/benjamin.htm

But the truth of the matter is if u have the money and the media on your side u can do as u will and the common folk just take everything they hear in the media for gospel, since 9-11 the number of peopel killed by the isreali' army has soared, how convienient

[Zoolander]

Whoaa!!!!
I did not know that!!!!

[physio_sport]

/ Genesis 15:18 says, "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Look at a map and draw two lines. The first runs west to east from the Nile to Ur going through Kadesh (a 700-plus mile southern border). The second runs from the Mediterranean to the Euphrates running through Hamath (a 300-plus mile norhtern border). The Mediterranean serves as the western border. The Euphrates serves as the eastern border. All land between these borders has been promised to Israel. "/

the above i got from a website this is how they see their right to the "holyland" infact they still need some of Egypt,palstine etc.. etc..

and palastine was promised to the jews by the british priminister in 1917(?)by John Belfor(d) (if i remember correctly) and then they even offered large amounts of money to buy palastine for the jews but they refused to sell it.
thats like me promising something that doesnt even belong to me to someone else.

[BOUNCER]

Phy someother views' on the Israeli flag. I've heard your argument when I've spoken to arabs in Lebanon. As regards Israel "needing Egypt", well didn't they give back awhole load of it after the first camp David. Anyway some more info on the Israeli flag...

The flag of Israel is based on the design of the tallit, the prayer shawl worn by Jewish men (and by some women in Reform and Conservative congregations) during certain services. The tallit is worn during all morning services. In addition, it is worn on the eve of Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. The tallit is also worn when reading the Torah during Shabbat (Sabbath) afternoon services and by the person leading evening services. (Jews pray three times a day: the morning service is called shacharit; the afternoon service is called minchah; and the evening service is called ma'ariv or aravit.) There are two basic traditions regarding who wears the tallit. According to one tradition, any Jewish adult should wear the tallit (at the appropriate times). A Jewish adult is one who is thirteen years of age and older (a Bar Mitzvah, or "Son of the Commandments.") According to another tradition, only married Jews wear the tallit. In addition to the exterior tallit, there is also a tallit katan ("small tallit"), which pious Jews wear all day under their clothes.

Because the tallit is one of the most recognizable symbols of the Jewish people, it was chosen to be the basis of the flag. (Indeed, in coming up with a design for the flag, the early Zionists came to the realization that the Jewish People had had a flag all along - the tallit - and there was thus no need to design a flag from scratch.) In the center of the flag is the Magen David, or "Shield of [King] David," better known in English as the "Star of David" or "Jewish Star," another recognizable Jewish

Zoo, Yes I'm pro Israeli but I'm also pro life too and I believe every life is as presious as the next, be it Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu etc etc etc..

Bouncer

[palme]

Im pro Israel also

[BOUNCER]

Gotenks I've just read your two url's posted here and would love to see the evidence of Israeli backing of Hamas, AND even if it did. Who has America, England, Franch and others backed over the last 100 years, too many for me to name here.
Your url to how Israel came into being was interesting untill it blamed Jews directly for WWI and WWII, sorry buddy but thats just plain horse shit.

"But the truth of the matter is if u have the money and the media on your side u can do as u will and the common folk just take everything they hear in the media for gospel, since 9-11 the number of peopel killed by the isreali' army has soared, how convienient"

More rubbish, I say there's not another army and government in the world who hold's itself more open to public accountablity than the IDF and the Israeli government as a whole. And boy don't they suffer for it.
And where's your evidence of more Israeli killings since 9-11 ?.
If I can get back to the media backing for Israel for a moment, after the recent fighting in Jenin the world media reported a massacar had occurred with hundreds killed, possibly thousends. But the offical UN and Red Cross figures don't back those claims. Both the UN and the Red Cross reported 56 killed and 18 missing. Those figures don't include 27 Israeli soldiers KIA in the defence of their country. Now show me another army and government in conflict which holds itself soo open to public accountablity please.

Bouncer

[gotenks]

You do realise the article was writen by a jew yup ?
And the jews ( or should i say wannabe nazi's ) who did the shady dealing as the article were the ones fleeing from russians taken in by the germans etc..
Then they sold them out, but the war was already ahead but the thing is it was prolonged by the intro of the us into a war that was close to being settled.
Fact is a massacre did occur in jenin but the un investigators were only allowed to examine what the aramy let them, how do u expect an imapartial out come form that ?

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pa...ID=0&listSrc=Y
http://jang.com.pk/thenews/aug2002-d.../world/w10.htm


About hamas the thing is when there is a terrorist act by them it is never benificial for any one excpet the israeli government, whenever there is some progress int alks or some investigation into some wrong doing out pop hamas and do the act and the killing continues..

And whenever some one is pro investiagtions into israel out pops the anti-Semitic crap, wherther u actually choose to accept thios or read into it is up to or u a 100% correct in your opinion, thats your choice.

I dont see the need for any language such as shit or etc.. in your reply,if u differ bring the proof the 2 articels i posted before were proofs in them selves if u choose to ignore them thats up to u.

[BOUNCER]

GoTenks the articules were rubbish in my opinion, and anyone could claim to be Jewish in order to be more credability into something like that.
REgarding the IDF stopping UN investigators go into Jenin, it was because the UN wanted to put in people who were not qualified in any military sense to investigate that incident. And the leading UN investigator (his names escapes me) was openly opposed to the state of Israel from the out set and never failed to miss a chance to say so.
Speaking from experience, I've served in numberous UN missions, including service in Lebanon, I know the dangers of conducting a search without proper military supervision etc.. It would have simply been to dangerous for either the media or the UN to go into Jenin at that early stage. Oh, where's the mass graves ?.

Bouncer

[gotenks]

The article regarding the WW1 etc,.. was delivered as a speech man, no- one contested it at the time because there was no need to doubt the man giving the speech, thats a testament to the man giving it if u don't take it theres not much we can do about it.
As for the mass graves as id on't happen to live there i can't say but the evidence more for the masscare than against it and doesn't it strike you in the least at how convineint it was to stop investigations of so called saftey ?

[Rak_Ani]

I don't think the Arabs want or ever wanted to co-exist with Israel. If ever they become stronger the first thing they'll do is attack Israel. Basically they don't deserve a thing, in my opinion, since they lost those lands in a war they themselves started, but out of love for the people of Israel this is the best solution (or closest thing to it) I can see:

Israel withdraws from the territories. Settlements evacuated. Border is built, army lined up at the border. If any Palestinian tries to cross the border to Israel, he should be shot on the spot. Electricity, water and all other supplies from Israel to the Palestinians are stopped. Let them go to their "brothers" to ask for water and electricity. Money funding from Israel is cut off. The Palestinians want independence, but don't want peace, and so it shall be. From the day the border is built Israel has nothing more to do with them. If they starve to death, or freez to death it's their problem. No palestinians should be allowed to cross that border to Israel for employment(that will bring unemployment there to almost 100%, but that too, is their own problem).
COMPLETE SEPERATION.
It's time Israel rids herself of the problem that the Egyptians and Jordanians have rid themselves of a long time ago.

[gotenks]

[gotenks]

If you got your news only from the television, you would have no idea of the roots of the Middle East conflict, or that the Palestinians are victims of an illegal military occupation. : John Pilger :27 Jun 2002
In May, the Glasgow University Media Group, distinguished for its pioneering media analysis, published a study of the reporting of the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict. It ought to be required reading in newsrooms and media schools. The research showed that the public's lack of understanding of the conflict and its origins was compounded by news reporting, especially on television.

Viewers, says the study, are rarely told that the Palestinians are victims of an illegal military occupation. The term "occupied territories" is almost never explained. Indeed, only 9 per cent of young people interviewed knew that the Israelis were the occupiers and the "settlers" were Israeli. The selective use of language is important. The study found that words such as "murder", "atrocity", "lynching" and "savage, cold-blooded killing" were used only to describe Israeli deaths. "The extent to which some journalism assumes the Israeli perspective," wrote Professor Greg Philo, "can be seen if the statements are 'reversed' and presented as Palestinian actions. [We] did not find any [news] reports stating that 'The Palestinian attacks were in retaliation for the murder of those resisting the illegal Israeli occupation'."

Given that the central truth of the conflict is routinely obscured, none of this is surprising. News and current affairs programmes seldom, if ever, remind viewers that Israel was established largely by force on 78 per cent of historic Palestine and, since 1967, has illegally occupied and imposed various forms of military rule on the remaining 22 per cent. The media "coverage" has long reversed the roles of oppressor and victim. Israelis are never called terrorists. Correspondents who break this taboo are often intimidated with slurs of anti-Semitism - a bleak irony, as Palestinians are Semites, too.

Having long ago recognised Israel's "right" to more than two-thirds of their country, the Palestinian leadership has contorted itself in order to accommodate a maze of mostly American plans designed to deny true independence and ensure Israel's enduring power and control. Until recently, this was reported uncritically as "the peace process". When ordinary Palestinians cried "enough!" and rose up in the second intifada, armed mostly with slingshots, they were put down by snipers with high-velocity weapons and with tanks and Apache gunships, supplied by the United States.

And now, in their despair, as some are turning to suicide attacks, the Palestinians appear on the news only as bombers and rioters, which, as the Glasgow study points out, "is, of course, the view of the Israeli government". The latest euphemism, "incursion", is from the vocabulary of lies coined in Vietnam. It means assaulting human beings with tanks and planes. "Cycle of violence" is similar. It suggests, at best, two equal sides, never that the Palestinians are resisting violent oppression with violence. A Channel 4 Dispatches recently "balanced" the Israeli assault on the Jenin refugee camp with a Palestinian attack on a "settlement". There was no explanation that these are not settlements at all, but armed, illegal fortresses that are central to a policy of imposing strategic and military control.

On 9 June, the Correspondent series on BBC Television broadcast a report about the recent siege of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. This was an exemplar of the problems identified in the Glasgow research. It was, in effect, an Israeli occupation propaganda film put out by the BBC. It was made as a co-production with an American channel, and the credits listed the producer as Israel Goldvicht, who runs an Israeli production company.

That would have been fine had the film-makers made any attempt to challenge the Israeli military with whom they had ingratiated themselves. "The Israelis were determined not to damage the buildings," began the narrator. "The international press were cleared from Manger Square, but we were allowed to stay and observe the Israeli operation . . ." With this "unique access" unexplained to the viewers, the film presented one Colonel Lior as the star good guy, guaranteeing "medical treatment to anyone wounded", saying a cheery hello on a mobile phone to a friend in Oxford Street and, like any colonial officer, speaking about and on behalf of the Palestinians.

"Killers" were described by the colonel without challenge by the BBC/Israel Goldvicht team. They were "terrorists" and "gunmen", not those resisting the invasion of their homeland. Israel's right to "arrest" foreign peace protesters drew no query from the BBC. Not a single Palestinian was interviewed. As the sun set on his fine profile, the last word went to the good colonel. The issues between the Israelis and Palestinians, he said, "were personal points of view".

Well, no. The brutal subjugation of the Palestinians is, under any interpretation of the law, an epic injustice, a crime in which the colonel plays a leading part. The BBC has always provided the best, most sophisticated propaganda service in the world, because matters of justice and injustice, right and wrong are simply usurped either by "balance" or by liberal sophistry; one is either "pro- Israeli" or "pro-Palestinian". Fiona Murch, the executive producer of Correspondent, told me that Israel Goldvicht Productions would not have won the "trust" of the Israeli army had the producer asked real journalistic questions. That was the way of "fly on the wall": a candid admission. "It was breaking a stereotype," she said. "It was about a good, decent man" (the colonel). She said I ought to have seen an earlier Correspondent series, which had Palestinians in it.


Goebbels would have approved.

[Rak_Ani]

You might wanna take a look a this site:

http://www.honestreporting.com/

And one of my "favorites":

http://www.honestreporting.com/followup/01_tuvia.asp


Plus, if you're really into facts, you might wanna read some of the stuff here: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/index.html

[BOUNCER]

Originally posted by Rak_Ani
I don't think the Arabs want or ever wanted to co-exist with Israel. If ever they become stronger the first thing they'll do is attack Israel. Basically they don't deserve a thing, in my opinion, since they lost those lands in a war they themselves started, but out of love for the people of Israel this is the best solution (or closest thing to it) I can see:

Israel withdraws from the territories. Settlements evacuated. Border is built, army lined up at the border. If any Palestinian tries to cross the border to Israel, he should be shot on the spot. Electricity, water and all other supplies from Israel to the Palestinians are stopped. Let them go to their "brothers" to ask for water and electricity. Money funding from Israel is cut off. The Palestinians want independence, but don't want peace, and so it shall be. From the day the border is built Israel has nothing more to do with them. If they starve to death, or freez to death it's their problem. No palestinians should be allowed to cross that border to Israel for employment(that will bring unemployment there to almost 100%, but that too, is their own problem).
COMPLETE SEPERATION.
It's time Israel rids herself of the problem that the Egyptians and Jordanians have rid themselves of a long time ago.

Yep, couldn't have said it better myself. And I wonder, if the pals were given the West Bank would they give the land back to Jordan (who occupied it before 1967) or would they occupy and settle it with more Palestinians?.

Bouncer

[gotenks]

Why don u jsut line em all up put em in camps and brun em all up
that way there will be nor more suicide attacks
Cus thats all i see happening right now
As for the 'real jews' they don really wnat anything to do with the abombanation known as Israel
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...771040,00.html

[gotenks]

And because them sites promote your misconceptions further you labell them as factual lol .
it one rule for one people and an etirely diff rule for another people
I see the logic now
thank you

[Rak_Ani]

Gotenks,

Ok, we get the idea. You're a Jew hater. Have you got anything else to add? Anything relevant for example?
And Why do you hate Jews so much anyway? Is it because they're such great survivors? Or maybe because they've managed to do in 50 years what most countries in the world couldn't do in 100? (like build a country which has the 5th strongest high tech industry in the world?). Or maybe it's the brains your jelous of? Or the good looks?
To me you sound like just another bored insecure person who's trying to feel better about himself by telling everyone that others are evil.
Nothing I would say will change you, therefore I won't waste my time.

Bouncer,
Thank you. The way I see it, if the Palestinians won't talk peace and will continue this blood bath they're doing to Israeli citizens, there's absolutely no reason in the world for Israel to keep taking care of them. If they want a state, I say give them their state, but fully give them their state and that means they have to make it on their own. Demanding a state and at the same time expecting to get money, electricity, water, jobs, food, etc from Israel is just not making any sense.
If the Palestinians don't like being stripped and bomb searched at crossings to Israel then they should either stop exploding in Israeli streets, or get a new job inside their own territory. If they don't like their ambulances being detained at crossings, they should stop hidding weapons and terrorists on their ambulances. If they don't like their children getting hurt they should keep them home and not let the terrorists take them out to crossfires and use them as human shields. If they don't like being poor they should get rid of Arafat, take back the money he stole from them, and get a new leadership that would care for them. But you see, the Palestinians just refuse to take responsibility. They go and do things without being prepared to take responsibility and deal with the consequences, and the world gives them all the legitimacy to do so.

I can only imagine what the world would be like if there was no oil....

[Zoolander]

Zoolander news network:

Breaking News!!!!!!!
The crisis in the middle east has finally ended. Bouncer has finally convinced Gotenks that the palestines are at fault. Upon receiving this information the Palestinian all made their way to the meditterranean sea and jumping in thus making Rak_Ani a very happy person.


Gotenks
Ok Ok.... Just say you are able to convince Bouncer that the Palestinians are right. Will the massacre end????? I think not.
SO just put this to rest cause I sense some hostility here.

Bouncer
Same to you to.......... minds are set. I see that neither you nor gotenks would change your mentality towards this problem so forgetaboutit.

Rak_Ani:
I prefer to be politically correct and not use Jew hater but Pro Palestine.
SO SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


No hard feeling mm'kay

[Rak_Ani]

Zoolander
Have you not the ability to tell the difference between showing support for one group and showing hate for another?

And what makes you so sure I'd be happy if all the Palestinians died? Don't you think that if this was my goal I'd just support what Kahana said and Join Kahana Hai group? (I assume you don't know who Kahana was, so I'll just fill you in. Kahana was a radical Arab hater who supported the idea of transfering all the Palestinians to Jordan, by force.)

[BOUNCER]

Zoolander I think you have taken me completely wrong, I'm not any type of Arab hater. Like I've stated earlier I've served in the Middle East and if I looked for reason to hate either Muslim's or Jews I'd find plenty of reason in both. I've had comrades killed by both sides of the war in South Lebanon, so I wouldn't be looking too far. However that would be short sigthed of me, so I looked at the wider picture of the conflict there and educated myself through my experiences there and speaking to people on all sides. And I've met as many 'good' muslims as I have 'good' Jews, for some reason not so many 'good' christians!. ANyway I believe I know right from wrong and for many many reason's (alot of which Rak_Ani lists) I choose to support Israel.
Indeed after my last mission to the region I left a huge part of myheart in Israel and if I didn't have the responsiblities I have in Ireland (a young family, mortage etc) I'd make a move to Israel, and if nesseccary bring my vast military experience to the IDF in it's efforts to defend Israel. But, it's easy to 'shout from the side lines' and I'm not now, or ever likely to be in that position. If you'd ever made a visit to Israel and looked at what Israel has managed to do to the country in 50 years you'd be in awe too.
Gotenks, if the Palestinians are so good, why do other arabs keep them at the bottom of the pile every where else?.
Anyway I think this argument is about at an end, I can't see how anyone could argue or add to the points Rak_Ani has posted.
Take care,
Peace.

Bouncer

[Zoolander]

Bouncer
I know that you are not an arab hater. I was just stating a point that what ever is said here would not change a thing. It may come across other wise and I am sorry.

I could spend hours or days researching the net on the middle eastern conflict and be just as knowledgable as Rak_Ani and try scoring points in the debate here, but I would rather spend my time reading up on juices or volunteering at orphanages where I could really make a change.

And Dang!!!!! Did not know that Rak_Ani was a woman. Would have been a lot more polite.

As for me, I can say that I am not a jew hater cause I really like Seinfeld.

Btw Bouncer if you have a chance come down to Singapore. I have never been to Israel but Singapore has achieved a whole lot in a mere 37 years.

So again no hard feelings to all mm'kay
thank you

[Rak_Ani]

Zoolander,
I think maybe there are some things you should know about me that will clear up a few things.
First of all, no need to be polite just because I'm a female. Honestly. I've survived a lot more than impoliteness from people. (What's up with this smilly? lookes like he has a black eye instead of winking)
Second of all I don't surf the net all day just to get info in the conflict. I grew up in this conflict and I live it every day. As an Israeli who lives this situation everyday and gets her knowledge on the conflict first hand, and not just from the media, I think I'm just a little better informed than you.
To be honest, I used to believe in the peace process. I voted left wing parties ever since I started voting, and I was a part of the peace movement. But what can I say, when your dad calls you to tell you a bus blew up in front of your brother's face, you kind of lose your trust in the other side.
So at the moment I see no hope for a peace agreement being signed anytime soon. I'm intersted in survival and in saving as many lives of my people as possible. So a seperation is the only solution I see. If you ask me what I perfer, dumping the other side and letting them rot in their swamp or trying to help them and risking another bus blowing up in my brother's face, I chose the first option, and I'm pretty sure you will too.
When they decide they're serious and wanna talk, we're here to talk. Until then I don't want a thing to do with them. It's that simple.

[David B.]

Originally posted by tolinka
wanted to know whats your opinion on the Middle Eastern conflict?

There are not nearly enough choices on the poll.

I say they're both right, and they're both wrong, and they remind me of two children in the back seat screaming "you started it" "no, you started it" "no you started it" "no you started it"... I just wish there was a parent in the front seat who could turn around and slap the shit out of the both of them and make them shut the hell up.

--dnb

[David B.]

Originally posted by Buddha_Red
That part of the world has been fighting for 2000 years, it will never stop

Well now, that's a rather defeatist attitude, isn't it...

--dnb

[gotenks]

I got no hostility here, most of my stuff has been quotes from people and lighthearted comments on the situtation the thing that strikes me how easy it is to get labelled a jew hater for simply posting a few things.
I'm just pro life and if that means i am this hater or that so be it, :P

And about the situation being resolved i don't see it happening anytime there have been any progress in talks or anything there has always been a convinient killing on one of the sides that causes talks to fail and they will, sadly always fail as that is the scheme of things to come.

[BOUNCER]

Gotenks, how would you feel about Rak_Ani's idea of giving the Pals the West bank and Gaza, withdraw the settlers, estabilish an international border and then complete separation, ie. No financial add, eectricity, water etc.. Let the Pals sink or swim. If anyone illegally crosses that border their shot. Withdraw all work permits from Non resident arabs. But at the end of all that the Pal authorities have their own 'country'.

Bouncer

[gotenks]

How is that Justice

[EXCESS]

Have you ever tried to convince someone that onions taste good, when they don't like onions? It doesn't matter what the fuck you say, you'll never convince him. My point? You're all speaking to deaf ears. If Arabs and Jews can't respect each other on a damn message board, how the hell will they get along when living together?

[4inguy]

i say the arab neighboring countries open up the borders and let the killing begin. there is alot of thirsty for blood arabs just waiting to cross the border. Israilies been killing palestinians for the last four decades. they blew up homes, raped women, tortured men and wiped out innocent kids. suicide bombings will never stop. ya'll expect those people to just sit there and watch thier people die. those people gave up thier lives defending thier lands and people. yall don't see shit on CNN. they only show the suicide bombings. there is another side of the story yall gotta see.
the jews have to leave back to RUSSIA. thats were they belong.

[BOUNCER]

4inguy, thanks for that very well searched and thoughtout respsonse to the thread, excellent post buddy. It really made me rethink where my priorities were.

Yeah open up their borders, let war commence. but wait, has an arab country ever won a war against israel. Oh damn they haven't, better close 'em again and go back to raring goats before losing another war.

Why call homacide bombings 'suicide bombings' ? After why the target is innocent people of Israel, not only jews, but many christians like myself and muslims have been murdered in them also.

forget complete separation, give the Left bank back to Jordan and the Gaza back to Egypt and let them fight the scumbags, because no one else wants or needs more pals populating their lands.

Bouncer

[physio_sport]

because no one else wants or needs more pals populating their lands.

Bouncer AKA bouncer

yo! that is one sick response. and people wonder what the palistinians have to protect themselves from. its shit like that. alot of people think like you "no one else wants or needs more pals populating their lands."
thats why isreal kills them they dont want them.

, better close 'em again and go back to raring goats

and what the fuck is that supposed to mean.

you people in america dont get to see nothing because your media is more controlled then you think. we in england and france and other euro countries see more on our tv's thats why the people are against the isreal army.

man i thaught you where ok but you turned out to be a racist. there should be laws for people like you.you make me sick.

[Rak_Ani]

physio,

1. Do you honestly think that if Israel was "out to kill" the palestinians there would be any of them left in the Middle East by now? I mean, Israel beat Syria, Jordan and Egypt in a war in 6 days (and took only a few hours to wipe out the Egyptian airforce which was at the time considered the best Arabic airforce in the Middle East), so don't you think that if the goal was to kill the palestinians it would have been done with by now?

2. Bouncer wasn't being racist. He was stating a fact. Before 1967 the West Bank belonged to Jordan and Gaza belonged to Egypt. After Israel occupied it, both countries decided to rid themselves of those areas. Also if you take a look at Lebanon, Syria, and all the others, you'll find that the Palestinian refugees there still live in camps (and I'm talking about almost 55 years). None of those governments ever considered treating them as people. Instead they are kept by their own brothers in camps, in poverty conditions, and the reason is none of their brothers want them in their countries.

3. "You" England and France have a total of 10 million Arabs living in your countries. 6 million in France and 4 million in England. They are voters and any amateur polititian will tell you how that would affect the general attitude of a country (what's a few thousands of Jews compared to a few million Arabs when it comes down to election day??). Being from England, you have absolutly no right speaking about racism. I lived in England. 2.5 years of my life were wasted in that dump. To be honest, never in my life have I had to deal with as much racism as I had to deal with there. Even my teachers at school were racist, and went through a great effort of teaching the class about "bad Israel". I had to deal with people who wanted to beat me up just because they found out I'm not Iranian, but Israeli. I had to sit in class and hear how my history teacher compares the Israeli Kibbutz to communist Russia. I had to come to school every morning only to see that on my classroom door someone wrote "Death to Israel, long live Iran" and that no one in the school thinks this is something that should be painted over.
I suggest you shut up about racism, take a good look in the mirror, and fix yourself before you preach to others.
About France I have nothing to say. A country that turns a blind eye on terrorists in return for a promise that the country won't be terrorised doesn't deserve to be called "a friendly country" and belongs in the hostile countries list, but then again, that's just my point of view.

4. Just so you'll know for general knowledge, Bouncer isn't American.

[physio_sport]

Being from England, you have absolutly no right speaking about racism.

Rak_Ani

what the fuck are you talking about.
do you think im some middle aged white man who wears galasses and sits in front of a computer.
im pakistani, even tough i was born and raised in england all my life i get racism every day from police, people, shop owners etc..
i cant go 15 minutes in a car without being pulled over by police.
police treat us like where nobodys.
our people get police beatdowns on a daily basis but no one cares.we sometimes have to run away from the police.
and muslims are being held in british prisons without trial under the "terrorism act".

and you have the nerve to tell me that i know noting of racism.


oh yeah and another thing isreal didnt beat arab countries because as you know any man can pull a trigger. they where supplied really advanced weopons by the american,british and french also gave them nucleur technology. if it wasnt for them isreal wouldnt even have a stone to throw.