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  1. #1
    Pete235's Avatar
    Pete235 is offline Retired Moderator
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    This theory may upset some

    First of all my intention is not to enrage or stir up emotions. It's just that this has been on my mind and I'm probably not the only one thinking it. I am not basing this on any thing that has been reported, it's just a theory:

    The plane that crashed in Penn. was shot down by American fighter pilots. As shocking and unthinkable as it sounds, if you analize the circumstances it makes sense from a security standpoint. This flight was the last flight to be reported highjacked and as such the government had every reason to suspect that the intention was another suicide mission (there had already been three). It was reported on radio that a 4th plane was highjacked and that radar showed that plane heading towards Washington DC. If the press had this info, then the military had long before that. There were other reports of F-16's being sent up to intercept but no other mention was made of the fighter jets after the crash. I think it's pretty obvious what the target was and the decision to shoot the plane down would be deemed an acceptable loss of life. No one can ever truly accept the loss of life but in this case it probably saved hundreds or more lives. It is just odd (coincidental / convenient) that the plane went down far from any civilization. I know there are reports of heoric passengers who attempted to overpower the terrorists and likely caused the crash, but I believe this is a fabricted story to hide the truth (at least for the time being). I have NO DOUBT that U.S. citizens (or citizens of similar free nations) would knowingly sacrifice their own lives to save lives of countless others and if they knew they were going to die anyway, they would have purposly ditched if given the opportunity. BUT the government knew for a fact that this plane was going down, and that all the passengers would be lost anyway. Again, I'm not making accusations only offering a theory. What do you guys think?

    Pete

  2. #2
    dane26's Avatar
    dane26 is offline Retired Moderator
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    it makes sense. the tv and radio are reporting that some of the men tried to overpower the hijackers, whic led to the crash. in my mind i'd like to remember those passengers in a heroic way.

  3. #3
    Pete235's Avatar
    Pete235 is offline Retired Moderator
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    That's one of the points I was trying to make Dane. Ordinary citizens are capable of enormous acts of heroism and if that is what led to the crash then these people are truly heros. But even if the plane was shot down, I'm sure each and every passenger would be willing to accept that fate had they known they were doomed anyway. I believe most humans are good and most people would give their life to safe many more innocent lives.

  4. #4
    Keywestlifter is offline Junior Member
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    An I witness obsevering the airliner flight minutes to crashing and during the crash was quoted as saying the airliner was clear and at the moment just prior to the crash nose dived into the ground. If the aircraft was shot down it would have been on fire or in many pieces. But that was a media interview, who really knows.


    As you know our country suffered a horrible and
    horrendous attack. We all are still shocked and angered by what has
    happened, and feel nearly helpless at this point. However, our nation
    still stands strong and there is indeed much we can do at this very
    moment. I ask that we all fly our American flag, from our homes, from
    our businesses, from our cars, from our mailboxes. If you don't have
    one, go get one.
    Let the pictures the world sees of our country over the next few
    days be not that of a whimpering, wounded nation licking its wounds, but
    that of a strong, and powerful nation of people who stand shoulder to
    shoulder with a single message...
    That I AM AN AMERICAN.................and we will not be defeated by
    these actions........that we will recover and recover quickly because we
    are a nation of strong people, standing ready in defense of our country.

    Let the press photos over the next few days and weeks show how the
    American people respond to these tragic events, not as fearful and
    horrified, but as the strong backbone of our nation.............Let a
    sea of American flags speak what our hearts now feel.



    Peace without submission

  5. #5
    ptbyjason Guest
    Pete I haven't thought of that before. It is a good chance it is true. But let's be honest for a second. The truth is everyone thinks the passengers were the heroes, and that is all we will ever know about it. If the US shot it down, I don't think they will tell anyone. It would be much better to remember the passengers as heroes.

  6. #6
    Mike Guest
    Excerpt of an e-mail I received today from our corporate office in Manhattan:


    Dear Colleague,

    Today, Pfizer’s New York headquarters reopened for business.

    Let me affirm that we are doing everything we can to ensure the safety of all employees… to help colleagues and their families in need… and to assist those affected by the tragic events unfolding this week.

    It is my sad duty to report that Joseph DeLuca, a CHC colleague in Morris Plains and a 23-year veteran of our company, perished in the Pennsylvania plane crash.

    A Legal Division colleague, whose name we cannot disclose at this time, was in the area of the World Trade Center and remains missing.

    We have been informed that several colleagues have loved ones who died or were injured in the attack. Nearly all of us have friends, family members, or trusted business partners who lived and worked in the areas where this disaster took place..........


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Much more to the email but cant share - If there was an act against the terrorists on that plane like it was said in the cell phone call - I firmly believe Joey was right there in that......

    I don't know if it was shot down Pete.....but this thread is quickly turning into a thread about whether or not the passengers are really 'heroes' Well in my opinion it doesnt matter which theory is true - the heroism of the passenger is not in question. I can't even describe my emotions. I havent cried over any of it just yet and feel that at any moment I will just start with no end But the neat thing is - now I feel as though the things that stir me so deeply and will bring me close to tears are not the tragic news stories - not as if I don't have compassion - but the things that seem to strike a bigger chord in me are hearing the acts of heroism in a time like this. Not just the passengers of that PA flight that had at one point rallied and decided to gang up on the terrorists and probably led to the "safe" crash of that plane versus a landing in DC. (My colleague most likely being one of the passengers in this effort) But not just those passengers, also the rescue teams, those who have donated time money or blood, and the millions of people that have hung American flags in their yeards, prayed cried and hoped for those involved. True, that this may very well be the most digusting crime on humanity I will ever witness in my lifetime - but it finally hit me yesterday that this isn't just a crime on humanity - it's a catylast. It was an event that stirred something very deep in the people of this country and our empathetic neighbors. I have never, and most likely will never again see such true acts of patriotism and heroism. It moves me so much to watch people respond as they have - people willing to line up for hours just to donate a pint of blood, or donate money to the red cross, or help in any way they can - be it physical or mental support. Today i have more hope in the people of the world than I have ever had. I was lucky to be around this week to witness what I believe must have been the single most beautiful act of humanity in history thus far.

    So either theory being true - are the passengers of ANY of the flights true heroes and people who have ultimately sacrificed a life to spur a great needed change in this world? Without a doubt.

  7. #7
    Pete235's Avatar
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    Well said my friend. Again, I mean no disrespect and I'm not disputing the unconfimed reports that several passengers overpowered the terroists and caused the safe (compared to what it could have been) crash of that jet. As a matter of fact based on other acts of heroism during other tragic events, it is a very believable (and likely) scenario. IF the theory that a U.S. fighter jet shot the plane down turns out to be true, I have to say that the fighter pilot (or pilots) should also be considered a hero. Just imagine if that were your mission...shooting down a highjacked passenger jet to save countless number of lives in the nations capital. The resolve, the mental discipline, the logical thought and sense of duty needed to carry out those orders would have to be tremendous. However, I do hope the reported story is true and not the scenario I've presented.

  8. #8
    Pete235's Avatar
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    Breaking news...a second debris field from UA flt. 93 has been discovered 6 miles from origianl crash site. Theis could mean that there was an explsion in the air...either a missle or possibly a bomb. There are reports that one of the terrorists on that flight claimed to have a bomb.

  9. #9
    Mike Guest
    Very true Pete - BTW - I have a feeling the terorists didnt have real bombs on that plane - they all hijacked large planes (international) with large amounts of fuel - they were using the planes as bombs, and I believe fake bombs just to control passengers

  10. #10
    Mike Guest
    BUMP

  11. #11
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    I'de like to think of them as heros too for now. It does give as some excitement out of all this chaos. I'm sure one day we'll find out but for now Im proud of them.

    FAST R

  12. #12
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    I think the thought here is, if they were or where not heros, and no disrespect to the people on board, but whether the plane was shot down or whether those passengers where heros, the way I look at it, How many people were onboard that plane? 70- to 90? How many people are in the White House and how many lives did it save by this plane going down? If the White House was hit, would our government been able to recover? I think we are all missing the point here. I read last night on CNN's site, that the voice box was recovered and the evidence suggested that the passenger's were very aware of the other planes having used to destroy the World Trade Center, and it is suggested that the passenger's made an attempt to do something about it. This was based on a conversation by one of the passengers moments before they went down. Also they so said, had a recording with one of the Hijackers telling someone to "get out of here", in a demanding tone from the cockpit. I mean either way, let's look at the long term effects, was it justified to shoot down this plane?

  13. #13
    KeyMastur is offline VET
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    FYI - the plane was shot down although the press denies it. my father works for the FAA and he said that there was military action in the area when the plane went down. the FAA has access to all radar where planes are flying - because they have to relay messages back and forth so that they know where other planes are, where to go, etc....

  14. #14
    Billy Boy's Avatar
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    I think everyone involved is a hero and I agree with Mikes thoughts there are a lot of hero,s involved in this tragic event that you or I indeed the whole world will never hear about.
    To witness such carnage through spiteful planning to destroy a country using its own people and buildings as a target is beyond all belief.

    Just put yourself in those passengers shoes they knew they were to die regardless of what flight they where on and those final seconds of their own lifes before the impact christ words fail me to even begin what that must be like.I think the most harrowing thing was listening to the phonecalls telling loved ones how much they loved them.It still chills me to the bone I just could,nt imagine phoning my daughter with that final message.

    In my eyes they are all heros to sit there and face death and know you are going to die that someone is going to end your own life hell they deserve at least the name of a hero.

    Peace
    Billy

  15. #15
    Pete235's Avatar
    Pete235 is offline Retired Moderator
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    I never have, and never will, deny that the people on board UA93 were heros. Regardless of what really happened they knew what was happening to them and decided to take matters into their own hands in order to give thier lives to save others. Juice...bro I know there was an 18ft x 18ft at the site of impact, but they also found a second debris field 6 miles from the crash site. It just seems odd since most debris from the crash was contained within a 300 yrd radius. Again, I don't have all the facts and I don't claim to know what happed I'm just looking at alternative scenarios.

  16. #16
    ZTEM is offline Associate Member
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    I have heard that theory at many times as well. But since I have been to ground zero several times with my dept, I found myself drawn to the televisions n ews plus radio broadcasts to learn of the situation. I have only heard such possibilities through the mouthes of civilians that were not witnesses. I would personally rather keep these people in my mind as heroes, and dont see why anyone would question it. The U.S. did not give the air force permission to shoot down any more non-coherent aircraft until after the plane had already crashed in Pennsylvania.

  17. #17
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Thats not True

    There are restricted Flight paths. One in particular is around the white house. Any aircraft in these areas will be escorted to the nearset landing strip by military fighter jets.. If they refuse to land yes OUR miltary has the permission of the president himself to shoot down said aircraft. Further more, Presdient Bush recently orderded that any aircraft commercial or personal that deviates from it's intended flight path is to be escorted by miltary aircraft to the nearest landing strip. Failure to comply with the miltary in this matter will result in the aircraft being destroyed. It may sound barbareic, but the idea was to protect ground civilians from future attacks. I saw this on the news just last night.
    Tobey

  18. #18
    RON's Avatar
    RON
    RON is offline Anabolic Member
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    If we did shoot it down I don't think we will ever know. I personally don't want to know. I feel that would be a just thing to do, but I would like to think that those passengers stormed in and did what had to be done. It make their friend and families proud. Also It make me as an American proud. The thought brings a tear to my eye to be part of a nation with so many great men and women. It touches us all and I for one think we should keep it that way. Finding that tail part so far away does raise questions but I hope that's as far as it goes.

  19. #19
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Well Said

    Well said Ron,

    IC

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