I need some diet guidance

[redrum86]

Hello all,

I just started eating correctly and working out following Starting Strength. Tomorrow will be week one finished and I want to make sure my diet is on track. I did some research before posting this so I hope I am somewhat on track. Stats:

28 male
6'2 255lbs
25%BF?

TDEE-3025
BMR 2200
Mifflin St Jeor formula with -20% deficit based off 1-3 hrs exercise a week= 2450

Workout days Mon, Wed, Fri
No cardio, just 5 min on treadmill or elliptical for warm up

Goal: Loose fat and build/maintain muscle and strength

Pro/carb/fat

Meal 1 (0600)
1 cup steel cut oats- 7/29/3
6oz Deli cut black pepper turkey breast- 33/3/3
CLA- 0/0/2
Omega 3 Fish oil- 0/0/2


Meal 2 (0900)
2 turkey burgers- 42/6/16
1 cup Brown Rice- 4/33/1
1 cup (87g) Raw Broccoli- 2/6/0

Meal 3 (1230)
9.6oz chicken breast- 52/4/3
1 cup brown rice- 4/33/1
1 cup (87g) raw broccoli- 2/6/0
CLA- 0/0/2

Workout 1430-1520ish

Meal 4 (1520ish)
2 scoop protein with water- 48/6/3

Meal 5 (1730)
5oz Mahi- 21/7/2
1 cup Brown rice- 4/33/1
1Tbsp olive oil- 0/0/14
CLA (capsule)- 0/0/2
Omega 3 oil (capsule)- 0/0/2

Meal 6 (1900)
1 scoop protein- 24/3/2
10oz whole milk- 10/15/10

Caloric total 2362
Target 2450
40/30/30 split

I eat this like this on both workout and non-workout days.
Please give me any feedback

Thanks Ladies and Gents

[AngryNR3C4]

Looks good to me. I'd go for target with carbs. If I felt bad, I'd swap 40-50g protein with carbs.
I'd drop cla and get cheap multi and creatine.

[Docd187123]

Doesn't look too bad but personally I'd switch up on the brown rice a bit to diversify my carb sources. Doing this will get you a better spectrum of macros and help keep you from getting sick of eating one good constantly. If you're feeling hungry try adding in more low cal veggies, fiber, and drink more water.

[Chicagotarsier]

you are working out 3 days for an hour a day...

Get rid of the protein scoops. If you were humping it for 2-3 hours in the gym then yes. For 3 hours a week...no. Get some eggs bro or egg whites if it is just protein you are after.

Green Leafy Vegetables...if you are serious on this they need to be there every meal. Remember vegetables have carbs and there is hella more vegetable options than rice lol. Without green veggies the feeling of need to cheat is going to be very strong.

[redrum86]

Am I eating the right macros and the right amounts at the right times? Should I lower my caloric intake on the days i'm not working out because I am not burning as many calories?
Do my caloric needs even look good based on my activity and goals? TDEE look correct?
Should I do cardio, if possible after my workout?
Should I be consuming whey and casein on my non work out days or just my workout days?

Looks good to me. I'd go for target with carbs. If I felt bad, I'd swap 40-50g protein with carbs.
I'd drop cla and get cheap multi and creatine.

Thanks. I forgot to mention I take a multi also. Doesnt creatine make you retain water and give you a bloated feeling?

Doesn't look too bad but personally I'd switch up on the brown rice a bit to diversify my carb sources. Doing this will get you a better spectrum of macros and help keep you from getting sick of eating one good constantly. If you're feeling hungry try adding in more low cal veggies, fiber, and drink more water.

Actually, the problem I was having went away after I followed your suggestion of upping the greens and eating raw broccoli instead. Now, I have the opposite problem and I can barely finish my meals!

you are working out 3 days for an hour a day...

Get rid of the protein scoops. If you were humping it for 2-3 hours in the gym then yes. For 3 hours a week...no. Get some eggs bro or egg whites if it is just protein you are after.

Green Leafy Vegetables...if you are serious on this they need to be there every meal. Remember vegetables have carbs and there is hella more vegetable options than rice lol. Without green veggies the feeling of need to cheat is going to be very strong.

Are you aware of what the program contains and how demanding it is? I thought a protein shale after workouts and at bed time were optimal. Perhaps not so much on my days off but I'm a picky eater and that would be a hell of a lot of eggs! lol
Also I dont mind veggies but because they are so low calorie, wouldn't I need dishes upon dishes of them to get what 1 cup of rice or a sweet potato would give me? Thanks for the input as well.

[AngryNR3C4]

Am I eating the right macros and the right amounts at the right times?
There's no such thing (yet). You need 3-4 meals with protein to maximize muscle protein synthesis (mps).
You need to have a good amount of protein before and after workout to maximize mps.
You can ofc also have 6 meals.

JISSN | Full text | Nutrient timing revisited: is there a post-exercise anabolic window?
Here they say 0.4-0.5g protein per kg lbm before and after workout. For endurance athlete carbs during and after workout.
And a lot more...

Btw, I read about carbs in a different study, they supposedly make you sleep better.
So it's beneficial to eat some before sleeping. In study they ate carbs 4 hours before sleep.

Caloric intake and consistency are much more important than times.
Should I lower my caloric intake on the days i'm not working out because I am not burning as many calories?
No, you still need calories for recovery and you make a bigger deficit with this.
Do my caloric needs even look good based on my activity and goals? TDEE look correct?
Looks like a good starting point. When the scale doesn't move for two weeks, lower total intake for 10%.
Should I do cardio, if possible after my workout?
It's not required to lose weight. It's healthy though, especially if you're sedentary.
On your current cals, I don't recommend it. It would create an even larger deficit, making you feel a little worse.
So, if you want to do cardio, I'd up total cals a little and do it on non-lifting days.
Should I be consuming whey and casein on my non work out days or just my workout days?
I think it's better to consume it all the time. Those two are the best protein sources.
Thanks. I forgot to mention I take a multi also. Doesnt creatine make you retain water and give you a bloated feeling?
I don't know about bloated feeling, but it does make you retain water (in the muscle).
It also gives you strength and muscle gains. It's really great.
Here is a good article: JISSN | Full text | International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: creatine supplementation and exercise

hope this helps

[redrum86]

Is there a way to know if im not eating enough? Im doing Starting Strength and already having trouble upping my weights every workout. I just dont want to up it too much that i start gaining fat. Plus, im having a hard time as it eating the amounts i am.
Also, is it necessary to eat this clean? I mean the food is so bland its really getting to me. Would things like chicken slovaki with the cucumber yogurt sauce or a chicken roll from the pizzeria be ok every so often?

[AngryNR3C4]

Is there a way to know if im not eating enough? Im doing Starting Strength and already having trouble upping my weights every workout. I just dont want to up it too much that i start gaining fat. Plus, im having a hard time as it eating the amounts i am.
Also, is it necessary to eat this clean? I mean the food is so bland its really getting to me. Would things like chicken slovaki with the cucumber yogurt sauce or a chicken roll from the pizzeria be ok every so often?

If you're too hungry, go for more cals. As long as you're losing some weight each week, it's good.
The less weight you lose per week, the less your body will fight it.

No, it's not necessary to eat this clean.
Iifym or discretionary calories basically means you can have 10-20% "dirty" food in your macros.
More and more bb eat this way, makes dieting much easier.

There are also tricks. If you're really hungry, you can eat something and eat less the next day to even it out.
It's good to even it out by the end of the week, if you weigh yourself each week.

[redrum86]

What about carbs? SHould carbs be eaten only before or also after a workout (weight loss in mind)?

[gearbox]

Hope you stick with it. you should lose a good amount pretty quickly if you stay dedicated.

at calorie restriction you will slowly lose that weight. good luck

I would worry more about critiquing your diet when you get closer to 15 and beyond. then it gets real tricky

[jdpeters]

More cardio will help

[redrum86]

Bump

[Mr. Small]

Looks pretty good man. I thought your diet sheet looked pretty clean compared to almost all the others, then you said you got sick of the bland foods. However, they are the correct foods and will help you reach your goals.

I do think meal 6 however could be slightly better. The cottage cheese there is a winner all day every day.

At 25%, cardio is not necessary, but it WILL help even more.

[rollingthunder]

your basic framework for the diet looks pretty good. at 25% body fat, you don't need to be too fussy - just make sure you are getting at least 200 gm protein per day (based on lean body mass of about 195 lbs) which it looks like you are, and maintain the deficit - 20% is a good amount for a deficit - and then give it time. at 25% body fat, the most important thing is the caloric deficit. you don't need to worry about the timing of the carbs until you are well under 15% body fat. (not that I would know anything personally about body fat those levels!)

[redrum86]

Alright I have been keeping up with the strict diet and throwing in some iifym here and there for variety and to keep my sanity. I haven't lost a single pound in 2 weeks. I have been eating 2400 cals a day which I know is definitely not high and been pushing myself to the limit at the gym 3 days a week. What gives? My man boobs haven't even shrunk!!!

[redrum86]

bump

[rollingthunder]

losing fat is not the same as losing weight. you may be "re-composing" your body - losing fat and gaining muscle. that will not necessarily show up on the scale. a tape measure is a better tool for evaluating fat loss, and that may take longer than a couple weeks to notice much difference

[redrum86]

losing fat is not the same as losing weight. you may be "re-composing" your body - losing fat and gaining muscle. that will not necessarily show up on the scale. a tape measure is a better tool for evaluating fat loss, and that may take longer than a couple weeks to notice much difference

Thanks again for the reply. I just purchased bf calipers online to track my progress that way as well. I should keep my daily caloric intake the same as long as the scale doesnt move?
Is it even possible to gain a pound or so of muscle a week and thats why the scale isn't budging?

[redrum86]

Bummmmmp

[AngryNR3C4]

I see you measure stuff cooked. This is probably the problem. Weigh and count everything raw using a kitchen scale and a calorie counting app like myfitnesspal, and then cook it.
Check all nutrition labels to make sure they are correct and count everything (you can eyeball low cal veggies like lettuce and such). It's easy to miss milk in coffee or teaspoons of oil.

Alright I have been keeping up with the strict diet and throwing in some iifym here and there for variety and to keep my sanity. I haven't lost a single pound in 2 weeks. I have been eating 2400 cals a day which I know is definitely not high and been pushing myself to the limit at the gym 3 days a week. What gives? My man boobs haven't even shrunk!!!

keep it up, you're doing great

[redrum86]

I see you measure stuff cooked. This is probably the problem. Weigh and count everything raw using a kitchen scale and a calorie counting app like myfitnesspal, and then cook it.
Check all nutrition labels to make sure they are correct and count everything (you can eyeball low cal veggies like lettuce and such). It's easy to miss milk in coffee or teaspoons of oil.
keep it up, you're doing great

I weigh everything raw and have been using MFP for months before training. Scale is still not budging. Very frustrating. Is it possible to be adding a pound of muscle a week on SS? I mean my weights are slowly going up on the bar.

[redrum86]

Do you count oil that you use to add in marinades and such? I didnt think it gets absorbed

[redrum86]

Alright guys I didn't want to start a new thread so I will give an update and some problems and questions I am having.
Tomorrow will be 7 weeks completed on my new journey to losing weight and working out. I am doing starting strength going to the gym 3x a week. I started the program at 255lbs at aprox 25%bf. I have been on a 20% caloric reduction and reducing it even more when the scale doesn't move in a week.

Today, 7 weeks later, I am 248lbs at about 21%bf (I am using bf calipers to measure). I haven't lost a single pound in about 3 weeks. I weighed myself a few weeks back and I was 246 but it seemed to have gone up and not moved. When I use a tdee calculator online, such as scoobys, my caloric intake with 20% reduction is 2390. If I use the calculator with a more accurate measurement like my bf%, its telling me to go up to 2520 which is more calories then when I started at 255lbs!
Now I am not sure what to do because the scale hasn't moved in weeks and when that happens, you're supposed to reduce calories but now depending on the measurements I use, it's telling me to increase.
I hope I explained myself correctly What should I do? I would have thought I'd be around the low to mid 240's by now.
Thanks for the help guys. I'm feeling great too.

[rollingthunder]

again, weight loss is not the same thing as fat loss. IF you have indeed dropped from 25% bf to 21% bf, that is progress! that is 10 lbs of fat loss at your body weight. in 7 weeks, that is pretty good, actually.

if your goal is WEIGHT loss, then stop lifting and just do cardio with your caloric restriction and you will lose weight, but some loss may be muscle.

it is very difficult to lose fat and gain muscle and lose weight all at the same time

[tarmyg]

Please ignore the advice from rollingthunder as that is just bizarre.

I would not reduce calories more right now but add some cardio instead. Slow pace cardio or some HIIT do not matter as long as you get it in. The most important part of your comment is that "I am feeling great too" and in the end that is really what matters.

Thanks
~T

[rollingthunder]

what "advice" did i give that is "bizarre"?

i was making the point that people confuse WEIGHT loss with FAT loss. they say "I need to lose weight", when what they mean is they want to lose fat. if the goal really is WEIGHT loss, and you don't care what that weight is comprised of, then don't lift. it builds muscle and will slow WEIGHT loss. i am not suggesting that is a desirable outcome.

i was trying to encourage the original poster that he seems to be making progress, decent progress, in spite of what he thinks he would like to see registering on his scale. in other words, what you are doing is working!

[ScotsRow1]

Stop doing weights and do cardio was probably what advice was being referred to...

[Imperator]

Redrum have you tried training 5-6 days a week instead of three?

I would try that plus doing some more cardio and see what happens. Maybe your body would respond better to it.

[redrum86]

There is no way I am training 5-6 days a week. I'm the furthest thing from a fitness expert but i personally don't think it's necessary unless your going for competition or want the perfect physique. Plus, I know I would give up because it's too much for me as a beginner. I am going Starting Strength which is 3 days a week and takes me about 45 min. It doesn't call for cardio because of the amount of stress it puts on your legs but I will start to incorporate some fast pace walking after the workout.

Does anyone think 2370 cals for someone who is 6'2 250lbs is to little? I calculated it using "lightly active" but i'm not sure what starting strength would be considered. Moderately active?

An last, can someone please explain this to me?
I was 250lbs at 24%bf (measured with calipers) and at 20% restriction, I am supposed to eat 2390. NOw I havent lost a pound in a few weeks but when I measured my bf, I am at 22% and when I put that in the calculator, it says to eat 2540 calc.
Now even though the scale hasn't moved, my bf went down so its hopefully fat loss. Should I be eating the 2540 even though the scale hasn't moved or eat the 2370? I just don't want to eat to little.

Thanks again guys.

[RaginCajun]

Seems that you are losing fat and prob gained some lean mass (muscle). If your fat loss has not stalled, then I stay stick to it. Don't worry about the scale if the mirror is saying something different.

[redrum86]

Thanks.

Is there a way to know if you are consuming too little calories?

[RaginCajun]

Thanks.Is there a way to know if you are consuming too little calories?

yeah, count them! haha! just have to listen to what your body is telling you. too little calories would result in weight loss! try to gauge your energy levels and if you are feeling burnt out/lethargic, you may want to add/change your cals/macros up some. slow and steady wins this race!

[redrum86]

Thank you sir

[Rock Chalk]

There is no way I am training 5-6 days a week. I'm the furthest thing from a fitness expert but i personally don't think it's necessary unless your going for competition or want the perfect physique.

No offense, but in my opinion, this is most likely the problem.