Continuous HRT vs. Cycling

[woodiechopper]

for a middle aged man, is it better to do continuous HRT (10 weeks on at lowish doses, followed by 3 weeks off) or to cycle (12 weeks on, 12 weeks off) at higher doses? Objectives are to gain and maintain lean muscle mass, rather than to just bulk up.

What would be the maximum dose during the continuous HRT?

[Rocket]

I do HRT test e 200mg every 2 weeks do about two cycles a year dr. told me not to take any time off HRT!

[woodiechopper]

let me understand...you do 200mg test enanthate every 2 weeks and stop for a few weeks during the year. Or you do the 200mg continuously and do two additional cycles on top?

[darmadoc]

Generally, the amount of test in a cycle is so high compared to HRT; you aren't really stopping, even though you go off the prescribed HRT during the cycle.

[Rocket]

Or you do the 200mg continuously and do two additional cycles on top?

That one!

[woodiechopper]

Rocket --

1) is your normal test level below normal so the 200mg just returns you to around normal?

2) what cycles do you run and for how long?

Thanks.

[Rocket]

Yes my Test levels are low so the 200mg brings them up to normal. I have done a few different cycles. Test E and EQ with Dbol . Test E with Fina and D Bol.

[AAJB]

My doc says stay on and never come off, so far I have been on for a year straight with no problems. Levels are fairly high 800 to 1000. I have cycled twice in the past year, but never came off.

[Milestone]

Woodiechopper do you need HRT whats your test levels or are youjust doing for the added advantages of a higher test level ??

[woodiechopper]

I need it. When originally tested they were around 300nl total and only 3% free.

[MMA]

for a middle aged man, is it better to do continuous HRT (10 weeks on at lowish doses, followed by 3 weeks off) or to cycle (12 weeks on, 12 weeks off) at higher doses? Objectives are to gain and maintain lean muscle mass, rather than to just bulk up.

What would be the maximum dose during the continuous HRT?

the only downside to continuous HRT is that if you ever have to come off you'll probably be permanently shut down. HRT is great...as long as u don't have to stop. HRT is for life

[MrMondodondo]

If you are on HRT you do not need to come off.

If you are actually on HRT then why worry about shut-down????

[Pale Horse]

I never come off, I will when i die........

[MrMondodondo]

I never come off, I will when i die........

Exactly!.

[seanw]

I never come off, I will when i die........

Vic why are you on HRT at 39. Were your test levels really that low ?

[MrMondodondo]

Yes. vic actually should be a woman! Hence, why he is called M.I.L.F.........

[BASK8KACE]

the only downside to continuous HRT is that if you ever have to come off you'll probably be permanently shut down. HRT is great...as long as u don't have to stop. HRT is for life

Vic,
If someone has been prescribed HRT legally and for the right reasons, then he is probably hypogonadal--his testosterone levels were so low in the first place that being shut down hard really doesn't matter.

[***xxx***]

btw:I would rather inject 100 mg every week then 200mg every 2 weeks. this will keep ur blood levels more stable.

[BASK8KACE]

the 200mg just returns you to around normal?

Yes my Test levels are low so the 200mg brings them up to normal.

Woodie and Rocket,

A weekly dose of 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone (such as test cypionate or test enanthate ) is equivalent to MORE THAN TWICE the amount of testosterone produced by a healthy male whose test production is on the highest end of the natural testosterone production spectrum.

For more information about this read the following post:
Low dose cycles--Truth and myth.

[bluethunder]

I need it. When originally tested they were around 300nl total and only 3% free.

That is a normal level for a middle age man. Doses are usually 100mg /weekly +- depending on post blood levels and estrogens ratio's. Main concern for long term is if you wish to have children and prostate enlargement.

[woodiechopper]

I have children (4) so no worries there (but some stress). Prostate I let the doc worry about. I'm going to try to postpone getting old for as long as possible: youth is wasted on the young!

By the way, I've been trying 300mg test cyp ew and 400mg EQ as HRT plus some extra. Seems very gentle in terms of side effects.

[seanw]

I have children (4) so no worries there (but some stress). Prostate I let the doc worry about. I'm going to try to postpone getting old for as long as possible: youth is wasted on the young!

By the way, I've been trying 300mg test cyp ew and 400mg EQ as HRT plus some extra. Seems very gentle in terms of side effects.

Have you seen much gain in the way of muscle mass ?

[Jay J]

Woodie and Rocket,

A weekly dose of 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone (such as test cypionate or test enanthate ) is equivalent to MORE THAN TWICE the amount of testosterone produced by a healthy male whose test production is on the highest end of the natural testosterone production spectrum.

For more information about this read the following post:
Low dose cycles--Truth and myth.

BASK8KACE, I just started TRT a couple of weeks ago. I just had my third shot of 100mg Test Cyp on Tues. My concern was that this would shut me down & just replace my normal production, plus a little. I am not feeling anything different now but the test has just been in my system for 2 weeks. When should I be able to feel a difference? I go back in for blood work in 2 weeks. Any idea on what this will push my total test numbers up to? I usually have test levels 350-425. Thanks.

[BASK8KACE]

BASK8KACE, I just started TRT a couple of weeks ago. I just had my third shot of 100mg Test Cyp on Tues. My concern was that this would shut me down & just replace my normal production, plus a little. I am not feeling anything different now but the test has just been in my system for 2 weeks. When should I be able to feel a difference? I go back in for blood work in 2 weeks. Any idea on what this will push my total test numbers up to? I usually have test levels 350-425. Thanks.

Jay,

If your normal testosterone level is 350-425 ng/dL, then you're well within the normal range and probably don't need HRT. Some doctors have gotten very loose about to whom they prescribe HRT.

If you're hypogonadal (produce very little or no natural testosterone), then you need to be on HRT. However, if you're producing testosterone within the normal range and if you're using HRT in order to find a legal way to use steroids over extended periods of time, then you DO have to worry about damaging your natural testosterone production.

As I understand it, 100 mg per week (of a long lasting ester of testosterone such as cypionate or enanthate ) is what "should" be prescribed to bring a hypogonadal male up to the HIGH NORMAL range of testosterone. Many doctors prescribe 200mg of testosterone (long lasting ester) per week for various reasons. 200mg of a enan or cyp per week is MORE THAN TWICE the "high normal range." So....

1. A weekly dose of 100mg of testosterone cyp or enan is enough to bring you only to the high end of normal, average joe levels. In this range you will probably grow just as fast as the average joe.

2. A weekly dose of 200mg of testosterone cyp or enan is enough to bring you to MORE THAN TWICE the "high normal range". At this range you probably will build muscle faster than the average joe.

In other words: If you're planning to use testosterone for muscle building, do not use less than 200-250 mg per week of a LONG lasting ester of testosterone such as cyp or enan.

Men function normally--without any sexual or psychological disruptions--anywhere in the NORMAL range as shown below. Only when you fall below this range or too close to the end of this range is the time--as I understand it--to seek HRT.

BTW...I am hypogonadal (I was tested extensive by several 3-4 doctors before it was determined that I mah hypogonadal. My testosterone levels were way, WAY at the end of the low scale.

Anyway, here's the normal range:

Total testosterone range:
LOW BUT STILL NORMAL: 260 ng/dL
HIGH BUT STILL NORMAL: 1000 ng/dL

Anything that falls within this range is considered normal.

Since your levels are 350-425 ng/dL, then you are well within the normal range and really have no business being on HRT UNLESS your natural reduction in testosterone production due to age or illness has affected your quality of life (eg. lack of sex drive, depression, lethargy, to name a few).

[woodiechopper]

Seanw:

I have noticed gains but they were at the beginning of the treatment when my test-deprived body responded to the additional test. Roughly speaking I added about 20-25lbs of muscle over a few years. Of course, that was also due to 4-5 times per week weightlifting and doing lots of other exercise. Whether it's psychological or not, knowing that I had more test in me led me to be much more active. At this point, I'm not adding anything. I probably could but I don't eat enough to put on the weight. Frankly, I'm 6'3", 220lbs with less than 10% BF so I'm happy as I am.

Bask8kace is right (as usual). You could argue that my levels pre-treatment were within the normal range although I had free test right on the borderline. But these ranges are indicative. I certainly felt better being at the high end (and even with 200mg per week I didn't get much about the high end). From what I've learned on this board, I would argue that 200-300mg per week is going to be a great dosage from a cost/benefit analysis, particularly if you're monitored with regular blood tests.

[tough old man]

I stay on all yr long at 250mg/ew. My next cycle wiil start 5/2/05. I"ll cycle 60 days on, 40 days off, 60 on 30 off, 60 on and 20 off, 60 on and 120 off.

Cycle 1....60 days....40 off 5/2/05

Test E 500 mg/ew
EQ 300 mg/ew
Deca 300 mg/ew

Cycle 2.....60 on ...30 off 8/8/05

Test E 500
Tren 100 eod

ECT