Thread: Experimental cycle thus far
06-06-2005, 08:01 PM #1
Experimental cycle thus far
I am posting a new thread since my original "My HGH results so far" thread is kinda burned out. Since I started HGH, I have completed two AAS cycles- the first with 400mg test/week for ten weeks and the second with Test 500mg and Deca 300mg/week for twelve weeks. i had good weight gain, but lost a great deal of it during PCT, which got me to thinking that a lot of it was water. I formulated a hypothesis which I posted in the Steroid forum, but didnt get a whole lot of discourse on it, which was disappointing. I reprint it here:
<< I have been doing a lot of thinking and research as of late about AS cycles and would like to share some of my thoughts with y'all.
Specifically, knowing what I do about biochemistry and physiology, I do believe there might be a big difference in the role of test in test only cycles and stacking with other anabolics.
Consider this: When administering exogenous testosterone to the human body, it will suppress the body's own production of test, usually to the point of partial or complete HPTA shutdown. When this occurs, the dosage of test which is necessary is the dose which will replace the body's own natural test PLUS the dose which will be required for the desired anabolic effect. For the sake of simplicity, let's say 200mg./week will cause a complete shutdown. Therefore, more than that will be required for a test only cycle, say 500-750 total.
Now consider if the user wishes to utilize different compunds such as deca, EQ, Fina, or any other. Naturally, these compounds will cause a HPTA shutdown so users who try a "tren only" or a "Deca only" cycle are greeted with the dreaded limp noodle syndrome. Wiser users recommend adding test to cycles like this to prevent sexual side effects. But from what I have read, advice usually runs that doses of test are recommended which are as great as the test only cycle would be on its own. Example: When running a Tren cycle at 50mg. ED, the usual advice is to run test at at least 400 mg./wk. Is this good advice?
As we all know, test is a great mass builder, but gives a lot of water retention and can be damaging to the libido by itself in sufficiently large dosages. I have found that at the end of my last two cycles (test cyp at 400/week and then test cyp at 500/week and Deca at 300/week), a week or two after PCT I lost a great deal of water weight, which the uninformed will mistake as muscle gain. Another problem is estrogen conversion of the test, which must be combatted with anti-estrogens (Nolva, Arimidex , Letro, etc). The more the test, the more anti-e's are needed.
Now what I am thinking is if the user wishes to cycle with compounds which will cause a shutdown, but wishes to avoid the water and bloat of test, why do we not just use a dosage which will REPLACE the body's own endogenous test (which we will assume is shut down 100% by the other compounds) to avoid unpleasant scenes with Mr. Happy? After all, if you are shut down, you are shut down but you cant be shut down more than 100% so why use a massive dose of test if you are relying on other anabolics for your gains? Of course, those who wish the maximal mass would want to use a bunch of test and other compounds - screw the water! But for those who wish to gain Lean body mass and are content to put on less weight during a cycle but keep more of it after PCT, doesn't it seem logical just to replace the test while using other AS?
I am going to put this hypothesis to the test (pun unintended) for my next cycle, which will use test cyp at only 200mg./week, Tren at 50mg/day, and an oral such as Superdrol or anavar . Probably six to eight weeks. I will use anti-e's but at very low dosages and. of course, PCT as usual with HCG throughout the cycle to keep the boys plump and happy.
I am posting this to stimulate a discussion - please dont flame and say "that just wont work" without some logic and rationale of your own.
What do you all think? >>
Since I posted this, I am on the second week of a cycle which consists of test cyp at only 200mg/week, Tren at 75 mg EOD, and some M1T for the first two weeks (had some I wanted to finish up). The last six weeks will use Superdrol as my oral. I am using Liquidex at .5mg EOD and Cabergoline at .5mg twice/week for prolactin reduction. HCG at 250iu twice /week for testicular shrinkage. So far, I feel good! No bloating, and the test effects on my libido are in full swing (pun intended). I started at a weight of 178 lbs and am now at 180. So far, no rapid heartbeat at night like when I was using high test, and BP is normal (128/82). I am NOT pounding down a lot of food, as LBM is my goal. I have noticed no sides from the Tren so far. Of course, I am still doing 1.5 iu of Jintropin/day taking sat. and Sunday off.
I'll keep you posted!!
06-09-2005, 12:32 AM #2
Seems like a good idea to me but I'd repost it in the Steroids Forum, since this forum doesn't get that much traffic and it's not an age-related question. I'll bet you'll get a lot more discussion there.
06-09-2005, 11:41 AM #3Originally Posted by johnsomebody
Well, I did post the original hypothesis there (the steroid forum), but suprisingly didnt get a whole lot of response. I think this subject deserves some serious discussion and some bros who are willing to try a cycle or two using low test and other AS to test it out, dont you??
06-14-2005, 07:46 AM #4
......OK, I am almost to week three of the above listed cycle and so far here are the results:
1) Since quitting the M1T, my acne is a little better, but not much. I am wondering now if it is the Tren , since my test dose is so low. I am taking Doxycycline (100 mg.) and amoxicillin (250 mg) every day to combat it.
2) My weight is now 183 lbs. Quite surprising, since my diet is more of a "cutter", with low fat, high protein, and low carbs.
3) Looks to me in the mirror as my muscle/fat ratio is changing for the better. Abs are starting to show when mildly flexing.
4) No Tren rages, no insomnia, no night sweats. Maybe my 75mg EOD dose is too low??
5) Libido is VERY high. My crank gets hard when the wind blows on it! And SO FAR no nut-busting problems like I had on high test dosages. This is very encouraging!
6) I started the Superdrol today - excited to see what happens now!
I would appreciate any input!
06-20-2005, 07:07 AM #5
More results and observations
...Week three of this cycle:
1) Weight is 183.5 but I look much better and waist is trim and lean.
2) Superdrol is something else!! I am getting hellacious pumps during and after each workout - feels really good! Taking 20mg./day.
3) Still no sides from the fina - I just might go to 50mg. ED just for fun. I am getting a strong strength increase on my lifts - I cant do presses very heavy though - my shoulder is kinda bunged up and I have been told to take it easy for awhile (possible AC joint impingement).
4) HGH still at 2 iu /day with 2 off.
Summary so far - I like this cycle! Seems that the low test is not affecting my nut-busting ability like higher dosages did and my gains are slow but steady. I also am not noticing any water bloat. Comments?
10-29-2005, 08:10 PM #6
Thanks for sharing Duck....
I am 45 and gettin ready to start my first cycle...and have enjoyed your writings. From what i've been reading...shorter cycles are more productive in gains...and less in side effects....and it sounds like you've gained some muscle.....Hope you keep the gains.
1)The antibiotics you are taking...is that strictly for combating the acne problem? (i heard that your immune system is already comprimised and fragile after and during PCT. I think that doing antibiotics will further weaken your system)
2) Is the fina that you state...is that finajet?
Thanks for the info...and i do enjoy your post!
11-01-2005, 09:52 AM #7
11-02-2005, 09:11 PM #8
i wish i could get some trenbol...or parabolan ...apparently its hard if not impossible to get in the states. I guess i could try and brew my own...but...for the first cycle...i think i;ll stick with something low-key like Deca and Anavar . Short and sweet...see how i react.
12-02-2005, 04:00 AM #9New Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
I'm new to the site. Maybe three months max. I got hooked on the site when I started reading your last thread. I just started taking HGH through an anti aging clinic here in the far east. So far so good, but nothing drastic. I'm taking 1.0 Growtropin. About the two month mark now. It's really helped me get back in the groove as far as lifting. I definitley feel better when I get up in the mornings now and the workouts have been good. The belt is getting tight also, even though I don't feel like I'm losing much weight. I've been away from lifting for a few years. At 49 I'm to the place where the pounds are all going to the wrong place - and STAYING there. Even when I was pounding the pavement running 4 or 5 days a week. Any way... I'm hoping you can help me with some advice to a few questions;
1) How many months can you take HGH for (cycle?) before you need to lay off, then how long do you need to lay off for?
2) How well do you think 1.5 - 2.0 jinotropin with the testosterone patches? The reason I am asking is I know the doc will write me a script for the patches - using them along the lines of the anti aging route. I know they don't compare to the injections, but I'm wondering what kind of results they would give along with the jinotropin. I've made a couple inquiries about purchasing some through a country near by and I think I'm going to go that route.
3) What kind of effects on the liver do the test patches have?
4) Do you experience anything in the way of after effects when you are in between cycles?
Thanks for any advice you can provide Duck. Same with anyone else reading this. I have a couple other questions - but I'll leave those to another thread. Mostly with purchasing the gear and bringing it back through to the states.
12-02-2005, 10:01 AM #10Associate Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
thanks for sharing info
Hi bro. Thanks for keeping us up to date with your progress. Sounds like the same theory I was kicking around also..
1. The tren (by my experience) was brutal.Good compound that made me stronger than ever but, the sides including acne,hairloss,growth of body hair and
sleepless nights were bad.Maybe I'm just more prone to this (lucky me)..
2. Is the Gh more for maintaining or do you still see results? If you have come off, did you "crash" in any way?
3. I'm wondering if your 200mg every week shut you down (300 every 2 weeks has on me) is it still inevitable that we lose most gains, unless your doing HRT?
None of the post cycle routine has worked out that well for me. I did respond well to the hcg .
Thanks again for sharing your experience..... Sharky
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