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  1. #1
    BuildaBeast's Avatar
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    Who started a cycle with over 20% BF ???

    After reading Ajax's post up top I was wondering how many people have taken the approach to increase LBM first then lose some body fat? Everyone on the majority board says that one should be 15% or under. I understand that the more muscle you have the more fat you burn. So who and what have you taken to increase LBM and also had some fat loss? As I get older it seems the fat doesn't drop like it use too.

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    I never cycled at all...sorry man

  3. #3
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    You need to focus on your diet, If you caloric intake is less than what you burn each day, then only one thing will happen. You will LOSE weight. There is your problem.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBdmfkr
    You need to focus on your diet, If you caloric intake is less than what you burn each day, then only one thing will happen. You will LOSE weight. There is your problem.

    this cant be said any better

  5. #5
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    If you can't or won't control your eating habits, you will not be successful on steroids ..
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  6. #6
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    but to answer your question - i have cycled with a BF over 20%....granted it was anavar but i worked very hard, ate properly and lost 30 lbs in 2 months. the main thing of importance to me beside the weight loss was my strength gains. my BF right now is still not under 15% and im going to do a test e cycle in a few weeks.

  7. #7
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    oh - i better comment on the above statement i made before i get shredded - the anavar itself was not responsible for my weight loss - the eating properly was.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuckDog
    oh - i better comment on the above statement i made before i get shredded - the anavar itself was not responsible for my weight loss - the eating properly was.

    we have a winner..

    good job man.. and congrats on the weight loss.. good luck on the coming test cycle..
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  9. #9
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    lol on the pic...and thanks spy as your posts were some of many that were beneficial in helping me.

  10. #10
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    Buildabeast...
    I'm assuming you're over 30 since this is posted here.
    I'm 43 and I've had a hard time with getting my bodyfat down and I have to say - as you get older you develop some really crappy eating habits if you're not paying attention. Shoving a little of this or that in your mouth, stopping at fast food joints cause it's "only one burger" etc. etc.

    My bad habit was always being the clean up person after my kids ate - couldn't let that stuff go to waste!

    Anyway, the point is - You've got to examine everything you're putting in your mouth. And if you want to be more lean - it won't be in a pill or a needle.

    Diet and Cardio are the keys - and for me, just cutting out sugar helped me get my bodyfat down and loose some of the gut.
    Bike, run, jog, row, jump rope - anything that gets the heart pumpin - you'll feel and see the difference within two weeks if you're watching what goes in your mouth.

    And it's hella hard when you're older and set in your ways.

    You can start a cycle - but don't expect the drugs to do much unless you are willing to put in some time & effort.


    Good Luck!

  11. #11
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    Thanks for the replies guys but I will also agree that it's diet and cardio that makes the differernce. I'm NOT looking for an easy way out, I have my workout and diet in check now but I do notice that it takes alot longer to lose the BF thna when I was younger. I was making a statement how Ajax had higher BF% and cycled and built muscle and lost BF and he wasn't at the ideal BF% that everyone says you have to be at.

    When I was younger way way younger I started at 256lbs and it took 2 years to learn how to control my eating habbits to get super lean at 169lbs then I built my way up from there. I got up to 200lbs all natty until my mid-late twenties and I through it all away. Last couple of years I have been trying to get back into the grove.

  12. #12
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    More muscle burns fat...

    I am 42 and have done a cycle of limited anavar and test. I seen a dramatic gain of strength and about 15 pounds of muscle that seem to replace the fat. I would agree that the more muscle you have the more fat you will burn should you keep your caloric intake at bay.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cylon
    I am 42 and have done a cycle of limited anavar and test. I seen a dramatic gain of strength and about 15 pounds of muscle that seem to replace the fat. I would agree that the more muscle you have the more fat you will burn should you keep your caloric intake at bay.

    There is a person who could see what my post was about. That is an example of what I'm looking for. I do appreciate everyones feedback though. Thank You

  14. #14
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    Just my thoughts..

    Quote Originally Posted by BuildaBeast
    There is a person who could see what my post was about. That is an example of what I'm looking for. I do appreciate everyones feedback though. Thank You
    I believe that it is difficult for the younger guys to understand what us old guys have to go through. Many can tell you that you need to be in the best physical condition or you have to have your mind in the game. I believe that AS has allowed me to get my mind in the game. While I will concede that my body fat level is too high, I also understand that seeing gains in my strength has led me to work harder. I beleive that everyones answer of diet diet diet is just not cutting it. You need physical activity and being the level of stress and work most of us are subjected too... AS helps!

    Bob

    PS: In order to better understand my diet I purchased a program from Fitday.com!

  15. #15
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    Yes I always lean towards implying that diet is the most important things, because I believe that. I always figured since we are on a workout board that the whole training things was just understood. My appologies, Yes you would need to train too, to grow muscle or stay in shape.

  16. #16
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    Cycle/BF/Age

    Quote Originally Posted by BuildaBeast
    After reading Ajax's post up top I was wondering how many people have taken the approach to increase LBM first then lose some body fat? Everyone on the majority board says that one should be 15% or under. I understand that the more muscle you have the more fat you burn. So who and what have you taken to increase LBM and also had some fat loss? As I get older it seems the fat doesn't drop like it use too.
    I did a cycle about 6 months ago, 6 weeks of M4ohn. I'm 47 and BF% is over 20.

    Of course we all know that training and diet is key, but what I found was that it was easier to maintain a strict diet and training with some help. I felt great when I was on. Dropped some pounds, lost some bodyfat, gained some strength and some vascularity. What I also liked about it was I got into the groove of doing regular cardio and that with diet, weights, training, and rest makes ya feel good. Problems with higher % bodyfat and age. with higher bf, have to watch estrogen. And with age, I noticed my pct was not aggressive enough or long enough. Takes more than a couple of weeks for things to get back to normal, even with a (what many consider) milder substance like MOHN.

    I am thinking of doing another cycle. Mid November-end of December. So while many people put on weight, I plan on dropping. Of course they'll be no drinking and while being on, you just tend to pay attention to diet better. So maybe I'll have some swedish meatballs but I'll pass on all the sweets at those holiday parties.

    I'll be upping the dose and duration or nolva, rebound, and dhea this time around for PCT. Will be throwing in more antioxidants and other cortisol controlling agents to help get back to normal quicker.

  17. #17
    Remington's Avatar
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    BUMP!
    Just cause this is EXACTLY what I am going thru.
    Right now Im looking into getting an accurate BF test.
    Gonna make some more calls tomorrow.
    Anybody wanna add sum more to this thread?

  18. #18
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    The only thing missing here is the fact that you are over 30 there is a a whole lot of hormone issues happening at this age to a lot of men. I would say that the first thing to do is to get your blood work done and get with a dietican, endocrinologist, urologist and make sure all your systems are functioning okay. I know many assume that diet and training is the way to go FIRST. Yet I know plenty that they had the diet and the training down. Yet they didn't get any thing because of thyroid disorders, no test production at all or metabolic disorders. Men always assume that if their walking and talking its cool there okay. Just go hit the gym and it will happen. If it dosen't do AS and it will happen. Never ever bothering to get a freakin physical and full work up to see if their is something wrong internally.
    But yes when I train clients and I really don't train men because most want to do AS, they will get the diet down and workouts right just so they can do the AS. Greeedy and Neeedy I guess. Guys we are a very proud group, and we don't want to hear eat and train,when we know there is short cut or edge. Yet we never seek to find out if our foundation is stable before we start building that monster of a house.

  19. #19
    Remington's Avatar
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    Well put.
    I started out at 291 of all fat. Im now 275 with some decent muscle. Im 36 and have been lifting for many years. Just fell out of shape as of late. I figure when I get down to 260--im gonna start a Test Cyp only cycle.
    Any other suggestions on this??
    Great thread by the way!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remington
    Well put.
    I started out at 291 of all fat. Im now 275 with some decent muscle. Im 36 and have been lifting for many years. Just fell out of shape as of late. I figure when I get down to 260--im gonna start a Test Cyp only cycle.
    Any other suggestions on this??
    Great thread by the way!
    that's a great approach, congrats on the weight loss, and the upcoming cycle..
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  21. #21
    ipso facto is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cylon
    I believe that it is difficult for the younger guys to understand what us old guys have to go through. Many can tell you that you need to be in the best physical condition or you have to have your mind in the game. I believe that AS has allowed me to get my mind in the game. While I will concede that my body fat level is too high, I also understand that seeing gains in my strength has led me to work harder. I beleive that everyones answer of diet diet diet is just not cutting it. You need physical activity and being the level of stress and work most of us are subjected too... AS helps!
    +1

    A good looking body is a plus, but as you age, what's really important is maintaining that mental acuity that you had when you were younger -- this is critical. AS helps, but it's just a tool. As you age you've got to get more structured, obsessive, and careful about your health.

  22. #22
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    I started at about 26-28% and now I am at less than 12%. I would not say that the cycle (Sust/Deca ) did a dam thing for me. I think I just got my arse in gear and did what needed to get done.

    ~Old

  23. #23
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    Cool Over 50

    I am 50 y/o... I started out at 6', 200 lbs... ok body... have been in the gym working pretty hard for two years... but body fat was still high... 23% or so... I just started my first cycle of Enantato 350 (500mg/wk) and 50mg of Anavar every day. I am at the end of my 2nd week... I have already seen good strength gain... but gained about 10 lbs-- which I didn't particularly want... but BF is already down to 18%... eating habits much improved... It may be psychological... but I feel better, more motvated... muscles feel harder... if not bigger. I want to add something to help burn fat...

    I have two 35 year old friends that are trying their 1st cycle with me... training together... they are on Enantato 350 and Deca ... They needed/wanted to "bulk"... I wanted to "cut"... Anyway... so far/so good. Still very nervous, but have learned PLENTY on here... May try another "newbie" cycle in July... depending on the results and pct of this cycle.

    Anything else I should know or be weary of?? Anything I should add to my cycle?? Nova or Clen ??
    Last edited by Hlywudguy; 02-25-2006 at 12:32 AM. Reason: spelling

  24. #24
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    I am SOOOOOOOOO tempted to start my first cycle.
    This is a good thread, lets keep it alive.

  25. #25
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    Here I will throw my 2 cents out there. I am 5/10 and was 250 went on weight watchers and I am down to 239lb as of today. I really do not care what people think about weight watcher's, it is proven to be one of the best diets out there hands down. You can eat from all the food groups and your body needs that. Can you loose weight quicker on low carb and eating 6 times a day, you sure can however it is not a way of life to eat and you will not keep the weight off long term imo.

    Most diets bottom line is calorie intake and that is what weight watchers is geared toward. You do not have to buy there food, just scale your food and know how many points each thing you are eating is. The point system is calorie control like most diets. I tried low carb and felt like shit, had bad breath and got headaches. Your body needs fruits, nuts,carbs and meats. All of which you can eat on this diet.

    I have a cycle of Test Sus and Winny sitting waiting for me. I do however want to shed more weight before I start. I have a friend with the same build that ran a cycle of this and gained muscle mass and dropped major BF %. Even with that I want to loose more before I start my gear. I plan on staying on this diet while on gear to max out results, I am not looking to be huge just add a little strength and maybe a little size with less b/f.

    Anyone that claims AS do not help loose BF is bullshit, men over 30 loose Test that is a known fact and it is harder and harder to loose weight and gain strength. If you are mid 20's and BF is low, yes you are not going to burn BF. However over 30, your body looses many things and eating right and exercising and a little juice will do wonders.

    Oh and I am 35....

    I am still sure though if you hit gear and ate right and hit the gym you would still loose B/F. Gear in men over 30 does speed things up. I saw it with my buddy and he is 41.
    Last edited by BOOST; 02-25-2006 at 11:10 AM.

  26. #26
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    I do want to add that the little Sust/Deca I did on my cycle I don't think did anything to help me get back into shape. In fact I was only using Deca to help with some joint issues and of course Test to get my levels up from a 56 to something normal.

    Honestly if I knew I never would have done the cycle at all.. I would have waited at least until I was where I am now. I started my cycle almost 8 weeks before I started my diet/training in proper form.. what I mean is I was lifting but not doing cardio or eating right when my cycle started and I went about 8 weeks I think before I really started getting serious and got my arse in gear so the AAS really did very little IMO.. Maybe a motivator but I think.. wait I Know now that it is all cardio and diet..


    My 2 cents.

    ~Old

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOST
    However over 30, your body looses many things and eating right and exercising and a little juice will do wonders.
    Oh and I am 35....
    I am still sure though if you hit gear and ate right and hit the gym you would still loose B/F. Gear in men over 30 does speed things up. I saw it with my buddy and he is 41.
    You know---you and I are in the same boat. The more and more I read posts like that--the more I wanna start early.
    Im 6'4-275----I wanted to wait till I got to 260.
    I wanna start now because I too think it would help with fat loss.
    However most of what other threads here say, I should loose the weight first.
    All I wanna do is Test Cyp. Seeing as this is my first cycle-id keep it light.
    Week 1 thru 6: 400mg Cyp.
    Week 6 thru 10: 500-600mg Cyp.
    What do u all think?
    Again---im 35y/o--bodyfat is somewhere in the 28-31% area.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remington
    You know---you and I are in the same boat. The more and more I read posts like that--the more I wanna start early.
    Im 6'4-275----I wanted to wait till I got to 260.
    I wanna start now because I too think it would help with fat loss.
    However most of what other threads here say, I should loose the weight first.
    All I wanna do is Test Cyp. Seeing as this is my first cycle-id keep it light.
    Week 1 thru 6: 400mg Cyp.
    Week 6 thru 10: 500-600mg Cyp.
    What do u all think?
    Again---im 35y/o--bodyfat is somewhere in the 28-31% area.
    I would hit it and stop wasting time and looking at your bag should I or should I wait. In men over 30 we are already at a huge dis-advantage, our test levels are low and our metabolisms are slow as shit. You need a decent work-out and you have to do Cardo 3-4 days per week to see decent results. This does not mean 15 Minutes, I do 30 minutes 4 days per week at 3.7 and a incline of 2.0 when done you are like a wet rag.

    To me I may be wrong, It seems a little heavy for your 1st cycle. I am going to run Test Sus 250 1 cc per week and into my 4th week add Winny pills 50mg 1 per day. I train with 2 friends one is 41 and the other 38 I have seen there bodies transform into a 20 year old, they both lost body fat and gained nice muscle mass. They both did not have side effects like hair loss or bitch tits, I think in men over 30 when done right at a low dosage you are just replacing what your body already has stopped producing. These two guys went from waste sizes of 40 to 32 and added 15lbs of solid muscle.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOST
    I would hit it and stop wasting time and looking at your bag should I or should I wait.

    To me I may be wrong, It seems a little heavy for your 1st cycle.
    OK---
    First off, thanks a bunch for the input BOOST.
    Many thanks.
    Dont think for a second I'm gonna let too much time pass b4 I "hit it".
    Its my current bodyfat thing Im thinking about. 29% is high, I know.
    My cardio thus far has SUCKED.
    Man---u hit the nail right on the head when you said 15 mins DOES not equal "cardio".
    For the most part--thats all the effort I ever gave it.
    Lazy I guess.
    No more of that shit.
    This week Im starting in RIGHT. Cardio and diet my ass off.

    ------------
    Question--you said the outline for my first cycle is high.
    I kinda thought it was low.

    (((Week 1 thru 6: 400mg Cyp.
    Week 6 thru 10: 500-600mg Cyp)))

    ...or were you not referring to me.
    >>????<<<
    ...thanks again

  30. #30
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    i am working my socks off in the gym & i have a bodyfat of 22%.my diet is good as well.
    I was looking at doing a cycle of Test Enth & anavar in the future, I too have heard you should be below 15% body fat before a cycle.
    I am coming up to 38years young & will go to the Doc to see if he will check my blood out to make sure everything is fine.

  31. #31
    Remington's Avatar
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    15% seems almost unobtainable at times.

  32. #32
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    Yep..

  33. #33
    bisntris is offline New Member
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    my story and 0.02 worth...

    40 20% BF 6"5"" 260.....Started test cyp 250 2/wk 6th week
    bf 19 % weight 281, bloated as hell but very motivated...
    I started before losing all bf for purely motivaTIONAL REASONS...I WOULD TRY A ROUTINE AND THEN FADE...GET BACK INTO ANOTHER AND FADE AGAIN...!
    This time, however, my motivation is through the roof...strength is up muscle growing and i am eating so much i could puke...
    the eating alone will make ther most difference imo for two BIG reasons:
    1. bulk = muscle
    2. By the time my cycle is over i will be so ready to cut back on intake that it won't seem like a diet but instead it will feel like a nice break!!!
    Amazing how we can BS our own minds but anyway I am happy that i put the cart before the horse!

  34. #34
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by bisntris
    Amazing how we can BS our own minds
    Again..Yep.
    Your previous cycle sounds like my life story.
    I GOTTA re-think my ideals.
    Time for me to get more serious.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remington
    OK---
    First off, thanks a bunch for the input BOOST.
    Many thanks.
    Dont think for a second I'm gonna let too much time pass b4 I "hit it".
    Its my current bodyfat thing Im thinking about. 29% is high, I know.
    My cardio thus far has SUCKED.
    Man---u hit the nail right on the head when you said 15 mins DOES not equal "cardio".
    For the most part--thats all the effort I ever gave it.
    Lazy I guess.
    No more of that shit.
    This week Im starting in RIGHT. Cardio and diet my ass off.

    ------------
    Question--you said the outline for my first cycle is high.
    I kinda thought it was low.

    (((Week 1 thru 6: 400mg Cyp.
    Week 6 thru 10: 500-600mg Cyp)))

    ...or were you not referring to me.
    >>????<<<
    ...thanks again
    Bump your cardo to 4 times a week 25-30 minutes, eat 5-6 smaller meals, nothing fried and no fast food. Eat clean and hit the gym 4-5 times a week. You will see results. I think 400mg is a little much for your first time, I may be wrong but I am going 250mg 1cc a week and Winny pills 50mg 1 per day.

  36. #36
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    My friend is 41 and had 28% BF he is down to 16% and added 12 pounds of solid muscle, he has the V shape and really looks like he is 25 for what it is worth. If you are not going to be committed, do not waste your time. Eating right and working out needs to be like wiping your ass when you shit, you just do it.
    Last edited by BOOST; 02-27-2006 at 10:26 PM.

  37. #37
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    Thats pretty funny

  38. #38
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    Bumper car.

  39. #39
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    i might go for the Clen /T3 cycle to shed some body fat.....i have the gear in now.

  40. #40
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the loss of Test in us over 30s (turned 38 today) allow the estrogen in our systems to start to deposit more belly and hip fat than we have ever had before?

    I'm not sure that it will be a problem for everyone, just because some folks have more or less test and more or less estrogen, but for a lot of us it gets harder and harder to lose that kind of weight.

    Think about all those old guys who you have to look at twice to be sure they're not women - they didn't get that way on purpose.

    Anyway, at 38, I'm about to start my first cycle - test enth and EQ for 12 weeks, tons of PCT etc. I'm probably close to 20% bf, according to our scales, which use some cheap capacitance or inductance bf measurement tool. God, I don't feel that fat, but that's what they say.

    As I progress, I'll check back in here to let everyone know how it's going.

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