cycles or 'slow and steady'?

**Tock** · 06-03-2002, 08:07 PM

Just wondering about the difference between doing 200mg Test a week for the long haul (that's what my doc's got me on for now for hypogonadism), say a total of 10,000 mg per year, versus doing a couple 2 or 3 month cycles using the same amount. Gonna ask my doc next time I talk to him, but would like y'all's take on this . . .
10,000 thanks

***the original jason*** · 06-04-2002, 05:34 AM

how about a maintenance dose for ur ailments and a few cycles in between ? if you are gonna be on hrt you could benefit by getting checks on ur blood and stuff regular just not sure how the doc would see it if you have hugely elevated levels of test in ur system?

peace

**Tock** · 06-04-2002, 08:03 AM

I'm thinking about that . . . I've been on this test 3 weeks now, set up my home gym again & been working out for 2 weeks, and am blown away at the results . . . 1.5" on my arms so far. Thinking about joining a real gym . . .
But was curious why folks do cycles with this stuff instead of a smaller amount every week for extended periods of time . . .
Thanx

**silverfox** · 06-04-2002, 08:07 AM

As you stay on longer you tend to need bit higher dose to get results. I assume here this is your 1st time you your gains will be really good, but will slow down about 8-12 weeks, no matter what amount of gear you add into mix. I would stay your dose is fine for replacement, but you could do few bigger cycles during the year.

**Mighty Joe** · 06-04-2002, 08:08 AM

Tock,

My doc would do the same for me.....we are about the same age.
He did say however, that Testicular atrophy will still happen and that clomid therapy every 12 weeks or so for about 20 days will take care of that!

Good luck...sounds good! MJ

***the original jason*** · 06-04-2002, 10:23 AM

curious why folks do cycles with this stuff instead of a smaller amount every week for extended periods of time . . .

cos for those of us that dont need hrt right now, we dont want to bring on the possibility in a hurry. I for one havent even had any kids yet and using juiice its my worst fear that I would be permanently shutdown of natural test production thats why its cycled amongst other reasons and side effects

peace

**TNT** · 06-04-2002, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Tock

Just wondering about the difference between doing 200mg Test a week for the long haul (that's what my doc's got me on for now for hypogonadism), say a total of 10,000 mg per year, versus doing a couple 2 or 3 month cycles using the same amount. Gonna ask my doc next time I talk to him, but would like y'all's take on this . . .
10,000 thanks

Uh-oh . . . You're obviously becoming susceptable to the temptation of everyone that does test for hypogonadism - increasing the dose into cycle range.

You're obviously seeing results already from test, and you will continue to see those results until you plateau. But that has nothing to do with the test - everyone plateaus at some point, with or without the test supplementation.

My first questions are how long you've been on the 200 mg. per week, whether this was your starting dose, and how your total test (TT) numbers have been on the lab work before and after. (Remember that you'll have two numbers to be concerned with: the peak number, done two days after a shot, and the trough number, done just before you're do for a shot. The object is to keep both numbers within normal range, recognizing that there will be a significant difference in the numbers over the course of a week.)

You are already at the maximum dose of test on a therapeutic basis - for both enanthate and cyp, the recommendation is 200-400 mg. every two to four weeks. (Many doctors recommend splitting the dose into weekly injections to avoid the peak-and-valley effects of test. This is done according to the guidelines of the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists. So if you want to read what your doctor has probably read, you can get the AACE guidelines on hypogonadism in an Adobe Acrobat file at this link - great reading.)

Meanwhile, I would advie you strongly not to bump your dose to the point that it would skew your TT test. If you are going to bump it (like the rest of us did

), make sure you cut the dose about three weeke before your next lab work. If you don't, you'll end up with waaaaaaay too high a TT level, which could make your doctor cut your dose or assume that you don't need test. (The normal TT range is 241-827. I once bumped mine and ended up with a TT level of 1,487. Not cool. Fortunately, I have a hip doctor. Now I adjust the dosing to keep my levels at >300 trough and <900 peak - and there is that much of a difference between the two, even over the course of a week.)

Finally, congratulations - a 1-1/2" gain over the course of a couploe of weeks is outstanding. But be aware of the psychological issues involved so you don't get trapped by biggerexia (technical name muscle dysmorphia) - the "bulked-up GI Joe" syndrome, in which you get great gains but are never satisfied with them. When your growth and development plateau - and they will plateau - accept that that is part of the process and don't get hung up if you don't make further gains for a while. Remember that ultimately, you are on HRT, which puts you in a different position than the "kids" (teens and 20's) that are doing heavier cycles for a finite period, and accept the fact that for your age, you're doing great.

**Tock** · 06-05-2002, 05:50 PM

"Uh-oh . . . You're obviously becoming susceptable to the temptation of everyone that does test for hypogonadism - increasing the dose into cycle range.
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Yah, well, the thought has crossed my mind . . . but seeing how I have no sources and doubt I'll develop any in the forseeable future, and also seeing how all I'm gonna get is what I get from my doc, there isn't much chance of my getting into much mischief. In a year or so, things may change (moving to the border), and I figure the smartest thing would be to ask questions about this stuff and learn what's possible, what's smart to do, and what's stupid, and go from there. I appreciate this board and its educated & experienced folks; I expect I can learn a lot more from y'all than I could from conventional medical sources.

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Meanwhile, I would advie you strongly not to bump your dose to the point that it would skew your TT test. If you are going to bump it (like the rest of us did ), make sure you cut the dose about three weeke before your next lab work. If you don't, you'll end up with waaaaaaay too high a TT level, which could make your doctor cut your dose or assume that you don't need test. (The normal TT range is 241-827. I once bumped mine and ended up with a TT level of 1,487. Not cool. Fortunately, I have a hip doctor. Now I adjust the dosing to keep my levels at >300 trough and <900 peak - and there is that much of a difference between the two, even over the course of a week.)
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Lots of good info here . . . but I'm just starting week #4, and I get another blood test at week #10. Not much chance of my bumping my dose . . . what I got coming (200mg/wk) is all I get, and that's pretty much fine by me for the time being . . .

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Finally, congratulations - a 1-1/2" gain over the course of a couploe of weeks is outstanding. But be aware of the psychological issues involved so you don't get trapped by biggerexia (technical name muscle dysmorphia) - the "bulked-up GI Joe" syndrome, in which you get great gains but are never satisfied with them.
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Yah, that's something to keep in mind . . . never will know if I'm satisfied with X-level of gains or not until I get there. Something tells me, though, that I'll be pretty happy with 'pretty good.' Then again, ya never know, eh?

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When your growth and development plateau - and they will plateau - accept that that is part of the process and don't get hung up if you don't make further gains for a while. Remember that ultimately, you are on HRT, which puts you in a different position than the "kids" (teens and 20's) that are doing heavier cycles for a finite period, and accept the fact that for your age, you're doing great
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Sometimes I think that anything I'm doing at my age is "doing great;" considering that about 95% of the world's population is living in much worse living conditions, going through divorces, stuck in miserable jobs, etc. I'm at the point in life where I've seen enough tragedy and discovered how fragile life really is, that I figure that any day above six feet of dirt is a good one. All in all, life is good for me . . . guess I'm just lucky.

Anyway, thanks again for the tips and info . . . will come in handy.