Hcg usage - 250iu ED throughout cycle? check it out

**marlin444** · 12-28-2004, 02:47 AM

i just read something very interesting.... i found it on another board, and i am not taking credit for it. here we go...
**EDIT**
just found out this was written by SWALE, an hrt doctor.
**EDIT END**

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I frequent another board and posted this in another topic but thought alot of you may find this useful so i'm putting it here. This is from a poster who is an MD and uses gear himself. it is a protocol for using HCG during cycle and not PCT, he explains why HCG during PCT can actually inhibit natural test production and recovery.

"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn?t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn?t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM?s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a ?bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can?t ?fool? the body?it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground?and we don?t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

Thought this would shed a little light on all the HCG questions during cycle."

**Stout1** · 12-28-2004, 03:38 AM

Good Post. BEST HCG PROTOCOL there is.

**Stout1** · 12-28-2004, 03:45 AM

Please edit that and give credit to Swale from www.sculptediron.com

Its only fair and right to do so

**marlin444** · 12-28-2004, 06:52 AM

christ almighty bro.... relax i stated at the top i didnt write it..... hes not making residual income off it or anything.

**Stout1** · 12-28-2004, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by marlin444

christ almighty bro.... relax i stated at the top i didnt write it..... hes not making residual income off it or anything.

SORRY, AR's **** server is ****ed up at night sometimes when I post and my posts go thru when they say they dont. Its ****ed up.

**BIGGEST J** · 12-28-2004, 11:52 AM

wich board was it?...........

**marlin444** · 12-28-2004, 12:28 PM

now the thing about this is, doesnt hcg start to loose its effect if used too much?

**Stout1** · 12-28-2004, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by marlin444

now the thing about this is, doesnt hcg start to loose its effect if used too much?

No, if you use to much HCG you will desynsitize the LH receptors in the testes. That means that you will have to use HCG forever to produce sperm. So thats why you use small amounts.

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 12-29-2004, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by marlin444

now the thing about this is, doesnt hcg start to loose its effect if used too much?

potentially... JohnnyB I think has posted some good info on 500ius E4D...

**marlin444** · 12-29-2004, 03:40 PM

hell im doing 4ius of gh ed throught my cycle anyway maybe i should just do like, 250iu eod... how long does reconstituted hcg last?

**Stout1** · 12-30-2004, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by marlin444

hell im doing 4ius of gh ed throught my cycle anyway maybe i should just do like, 250iu eod... how long does reconstituted hcg last?

I am confused. You are talking bout HCG and HGH. I think you are getting one of them mixed up with the other or you need to be a little more clear????

From what I gather you say you are doing 4iu's of HGH ED for a cycle. THen you say you should maybe do 250iu EOD of HGH. How do you jump from 4iu's to 250iu's.???

**marlin444** · 12-31-2004, 12:02 AM

the topic was hcg so when i said 250ius of an unknown compound i thought it would be obvious it was hcg. but looking back at it i see what you mean. my cycle has hgh in it so im shooting it every day, so i figure why not just split up the doses more so my LH receptors dont blow on me.

**jamikehat** · 02-03-2007, 09:50 AM

This should be the unofficial "HCG for dummies protocol"

**natebater** · 05-14-2007, 10:48 PM

I guess it's becoming more and more common, but part of my Pituitary has stoped sending the message for my testies to stop producing Testotrone... They want to give me shots of TEST.. Which I'm ok with, but I'm worried about SHRINKAGE of my Testies.. I know it sounds stupid, but I've noticed a change in them and I don't want more loss.. When I brought it up 2 my DR.. he kind of wrote it off as something I will have 2 deal with. Does anyone have any advise? I search the net, and everything is about steriod use... A product called HCG sounds like it might help, but my DR said it won't and isn't recomended in this case.. But, wouldn't tell me why? I'm not really sure where 2 look next.. Any help or advise would be great.. Oh, I'm 25 5'11 and 160.. I've lost 16 lbs of muscle mass since this has started over a year ago. Thank you.

**titus396** · 05-17-2007, 09:36 PM

I'm looking for reliable sources that sell HCG , Nolvadex , Clomid. I see alot of talk but no suggestions for reliable sources. Can you advise?

**rockinred** · 05-18-2007, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by natebater

I guess it's becoming more and more common, but part of my Pituitary has stoped sending the message for my testies to stop producing Testotrone... They want to give me shots of TEST.. Which I'm ok with, but I'm worried about SHRINKAGE of my Testies.. I know it sounds stupid, but I've noticed a change in them and I don't want more loss.. When I brought it up 2 my DR.. he kind of wrote it off as something I will have 2 deal with. Does anyone have any advise? I search the net, and everything is about steriod use... A product called HCG sounds like it might help, but my DR said it won't and isn't recomended in this case.. But, wouldn't tell me why? I'm not really sure where 2 look next.. Any help or advise would be great.. Oh, I'm 25 5'11 and 160.. I've lost 16 lbs of muscle mass since this has started over a year ago. Thank you.

My best advice to you is to get a second opinion. Tell your doctor you want more specifics because you have been doing research and talk a little about what you have learned. Also ask him if he suggests a second opinion with a different professional who can tell you what you need to hear... To me, if I am paying this doctor or my insurance is paying and the doctor does not give me a reasonable answer, I start asking questions as to why and try and get to the bottom or I will take my business to someone who will at least give me a solid answer... even if the answer is "i don't know".