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  1. #1
    Ironarms is offline Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004

    hcg throughtout entire cycle..and heres why...should be sticky

    i just read something very interesting.... i found it on another board, and i am not taking credit for it. here we go...
    just found out this was written by SWALE, an hrt doctor.
    **EDIT END**

    I frequent another board and posted this in another topic but thought alot of you may find this useful so i'm putting it here. This is from a poster who is an MD and uses gear himself. it is a protocol for using HCG during cycle and not PCT, he explains why HCG during PCT can actually inhibit natural test production and recovery.

    "I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

    Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

    If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn?t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn?t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

    The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM?s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

    I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a ?bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can?t ?fool? the body?it is smarter than you are.

    I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground?and we don?t want that, do we?).

    All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

    Thought this would shed a little light on all the HCG questions during cycle."

  2. #2
    Aboot's Avatar
    Aboot is offline Banned
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    Apr 2004
    Not a well known name.
    This has been posted numerous times before, but yes it is a very good post.

  3. #3
    traveler97 is offline New Member
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    Jul 2004
    Swale is a great Doc. He works with me and a buddy by providing hCG , novla and other PCT drugs. He also works with another buddy of mine who is on HRT. Everyone agrees that he knows his stuff.

  4. #4
    johnsomebody's Avatar
    johnsomebody is offline Senior Member
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    May 2002
    Definitely should be a sticky!

    My only question is his statement that anything over 500iu/day can be damaging to the testes -most places I've seen HCG used therapeutically to restore testicular function use doses as high as 3000iu at a time. Obviously they wouldn't want to damage the testes while trying to restore them.

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