Natural Test levels at 27 help!!!

**test74** · 12-09-2005, 10:07 AM

So i went to the doctor to get my blood work done and i found out my test levels were at 27 which is extremely low. Normal levels are in the range of 241-827. I took clomid and nolvadex for 8 weeks to try and get myself back, but still no good. has this happened to anyone else and have they recovered from it? Also how long did it take to get back to normal? Ive been off for like 2 1/2 months.

**stocky121** · 12-09-2005, 10:10 AM

what was the cycle you where on ??
how long was your cycle ??
are you sure your clomid and nolva where real ??

**JR.SHRED** · 12-09-2005, 10:17 AM

It is because you have to take HCG right Stocky?

**stocky121** · 12-09-2005, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by JR.SHRED

It is because you have to take HCG right Stocky?

not again bro i'am keeping out of this one

if you ran a long cycle then yes you should have used HCG

**tboney** · 12-09-2005, 10:20 AM

cycle details??

**CapnZ** · 12-09-2005, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by JR.SHRED

It is because you have to take HCG right Stocky?

I agree with Tboney - need t know more about the cycle. HCG will help with extended cycles but if used incorrectly can actually inhibit natural test production. HCG mimics LH (leutinizing hormone) in your body, telling your gonads to function. But, because it mimics the LH, your body is not yet producing its own. In short HCG helps to wake up the "boys" and gets them semi on line so they will respond better to the PCT therapy. Running HCG too frequently and for too long will shut you down just like AAS. And HCG will aromitize in your system. Me personally, I always include 10 mg nolva a day when using HCG.

**test74** · 12-09-2005, 12:40 PM

My cycle was 20 weeks long, it started with:

Week 1-10
test enanthate 750 mgs a week
EQ 600 mgs/week
anavar 50mgs/week

Week 10-20
Test Suspension 500mgs/week
Winstrol 300mgs/week
tren 300mgs/week
anadrol 50mgs/day only for 8 weeks.

I did not take any HCG during the cycle, i read so many mixed reviews that i dont know whats right and whats wrong, my doctor told me to save the HCG for after my cycle. Which i did. i took 1000ius eod for 3 weeks with nolvadex and then when the HCG was stopped i started the clomid at 50mgs a day with Nolvadex 20mgs a day.

**CapnZ** · 12-12-2005, 07:42 AM

Damn. Your PCT looks like it should be good. I started with a higher dose of clomid my first week (100 mg) and I probably would have run the hcg only 2 weeks. But it may be that its just gonna take longer for you to recover. I've heard tren shuts you down really hard, never tried it. After 20 weeks on a pretty agressive cycle, it will probably just take a while. Stick with the clomid / nolva therapy. How many cycles have you done before this one?

**test74** · 12-12-2005, 08:45 AM

Well ive done a number of cycles. I would say i have dont around 17-20 cycles. Im 31 years old and started when i was 20. I increased my clomid to 100mgs a day to see if that helps but so far no response with that either.

**Drummerboy** · 12-13-2005, 11:40 PM

wow your nuts are shut down hard core. now that your off, are you lethargic, low sex drive, unmotivated and laid back? did your balls grow back? i would stay on the nolva 20mg ED until balance is back, if your balls are at full size...

**IBdmfkr** · 12-14-2005, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by test74

Well ive done a number of cycles. I would say i have dont around 17-20 cycles. Im 31 years old and started when i was 20. I increased my clomid to 100mgs a day to see if that helps but so far no response with that either.

Time for HRT, sorry bout that bro. Hope my body will hold out until I'm 31, you're lucky. I'll prob be on it in the next couple years the way I'm going.

**Maetenloch** · 12-14-2005, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by test74

So i went to the doctor to get my blood work done and i found out my test levels were at 27 which is extremely low. Normal levels are in the range of 241-827. I took clomid and nolvadex for 8 weeks to try and get myself back, but still no good. has this happened to anyone else and have they recovered from it? Also how long did it take to get back to normal? Ive been off for like 2 1/2 months.

I thnk it would be worthwhile to run an additional PCT including HCG and maybe an AI. Normally it's not used during PCT since it can cause a surge of testosterone (and estrogen via aromatization) and this can be suppressive of natural test production. But in your case, your natural production is already essentially zero so inhibition isn't really an issue and you really have nothing to lose. Assuming your clomid and nolva were real, your LH levels should be rising by now but your testes are probably not responding due to atrophy. A dose of 1000 to 2000IU of HCG a week should help fix this. Also check out this excellent article on PCT by William Llewellyn - http://www.mindandmuscle.net/content/page-77.html

**test74** · 12-14-2005, 10:42 AM

Hey Drummerboy, my nuts are still small, my sex drive is non existant and im always tired. I really dont want to start taking HRT at 31. I think i will just wait a little while longer and see if they bounce back. Im hoping that since i was on for 20 weeks and on hard, that maybe its going to take me longer to get back than normal. If i dont see any improvements with being off for 4 months then i will have no choice but to use HRT.

Maetenloch thanks for the link, im going to give that a try also. Hopefully something will work. I just added LongJack to my clomid and nolvadex which is suppose to help increase LH and bring your testes back to normal.

**Drummerboy** · 12-14-2005, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by test74

Hey Drummerboy, my nuts are still small, my sex drive is non existant and im always tired. I really dont want to start taking HRT at 31. I think i will just wait a little while longer and see if they bounce back. Im hoping that since i was on for 20 weeks and on hard, that maybe its going to take me longer to get back than normal. If i dont see any improvements with being off for 4 months then i will have no choice but to use HRT.

Maetenloch thanks for the link, im going to give that a try also. Hopefully something will work. I just added LongJack to my clomid and nolvadex which is suppose to help increase LH and bring your testes back to normal.

I would try another go with HCG . Nothing grows the boys back faster than that, expecially if your body is slow to get back to balance (not producing LH and FSH). I use Pregnyl, the 1ml at 5000iu, i know its good stuff (from organon). Maybe a good 3 week run of 500iu a day, with aromasin 20mg ED and nolva 20mg ED. Run the nolva at least 3 weeks more, or until you feel a bit of a sex drive return. If your balls are staying small, i hope they are not permanently desensitised to natural LH (or HCG, which of course acts like natural LH). On the bright side, i have seen first hand that such a cycle can shut you down long and hard, and cause all of your symptoms. Was there a time when you took very high doses of HCG without nolva? it has the ability to permanently desensitise the leydig cells in the testicles.... anyway, PM me if your stuck...

**cccsand** · 12-15-2005, 12:23 AM

I am not in that bad of a situation but I ran a twelve week cycle and I still feel my boys aren't back to the same size. I have been off for about 3 months now. I am a 22 year old college kid and cannot get my hands on hcg . I was wondering if there is anything else I can do to possibly get them back to same size. Sorry to takeover this thread but its my first post and I really didnt feel like starting a new thread. any help please.

**IBdmfkr** · 12-15-2005, 12:50 AM

Put peanut butter all over them and let a dog lick them. Heard it works every time?

**johnsomebody** · 12-26-2005, 09:23 PM

I assume a five month cycle is part of the problem -have you ever been on that long before? I always hear the longer you're on the longer it takes to get back. One AR buddy was on 10 mos and still hasn't come back months later. It looks like long cycles can really be a problem.

**Bryan2** · 12-26-2005, 10:10 PM

250-500 HCG ed for 3 weeks while taking 20mg nolva

continue with nolva for 1 more week

add in some fenugreek at 2.5g to 3.5 gram ramping up 3 nights take one night off start again(optional but helps)

Then after the last week of nolva drop it and use an AI like adex at .5mg ed for 4 more weeks

(tongat ali will help with sex drive but dont depend on it for actual recovery

a small dose DHEA is something to look into as well as it is very beneficial during PCT)

The HCG will give your body synthetic LH hormone while the nolva stops leydig cell desensitization and will continue to block estrogen receptors at the HPTA while stimulating the body to produce test itself

Your levels at this point should be almost within normal range and then the AI solo will drastically increase your T levels