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  1. #1
    scotttiger54's Avatar
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    Hcg treatment during pct

    i personally have never used hcg , so i'll leave the criticism of my proposed hcg treatment to those a bit more knowledgeable in this field...

    a very trusted bro of mine suggested running hcg at 500iu's e3d beginning the day after my last shot of enth. and wastold to run it this way the 2 wks leading up to the day before pct. so no i will not be running hcg and clomid at the same time. this seems to be cost efficient and also seems to not be over doing it with ridiculous dosages

    ST54

  2. #2
    511220's Avatar
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    This is similar to what I will be doing except for starting HCG at 500iu e3d one week before my last shot of test and extending one week after. I'll immediately start PCT 3 days after the last HCG injection, which would be the 10th day after the last test cyp shot. The testicles at this point will be in much better shape to respond to the influx of LH production via Clomiphene-Citrate use (clomid).

    While I have no prior experience in AAS use or HCG for that matter. The extensive reading and sifting through conflicting information on HCG use leads me to believe that this may produce the most efficient restoration of normal HPTA function in the least amount of time.

    I'm in week 5 of my 300/300 test/eq cycle and have had zero estrogenic sides (with the exception of some immediate water weight only seen on the scale). So the Nolvadex will be used at 20mg ed along with the HCG administration and continued two weeks into the clomid PCT.

    511220
    Last edited by 511220; 03-20-2005 at 12:32 PM.

  3. #3
    Swole33 is offline Junior Member
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    J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Feb 15; [Epub ahead of print]
    LOW DOSE HUMAN CHORIONIC GONADOTROPIN MAINTAINS INTRATESTICULAR TESTOSTERONE IN NORMAL MEN WITH TESTOSTERONE INDUCED GONADOTROPIN SUPPRESSION.

    Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Herbst KL, Amory JK, Anawalt BD, Sutton PR, Wright WW, Brown TR, Yan X, Zirkin BR, Jarow JP.

    Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Veteran Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System (AMM), and Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine (ADC, WJB, JKA, BDA, PLS), Seattle, WA; Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University (KLH), Los Angeles, CA; Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (XY, JPJ), Baltimore, MD; Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health (WWW, TRB, XY, BRZ, JPJ), Baltimore, MD.

    In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally we sought to determine the dose response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG ) and ITT to determine the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate (TE) weekly in combination with either saline placebo or hCG 125 IU, 250 IU, or 500 IU every other day for 3 weeks. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/L) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/L). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 nmol/L to 72 nmol/L) in the TE/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Post-treatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

    PMID: 15713727 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

  4. #4
    scotttiger54's Avatar
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    thanks for the info bros. another question for ya'll... how long can you leave the hcg at room temp before it needs to be refridgerated? or is it to be put in the fridge immediately?

  5. #5
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    i have never used hcg but i read somewhere that you need to put it in the ice box soon after mixing

  6. #6
    macgyver_48 is offline Associate Member
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    yes, refrigerate it once it's reconstituted. hcg should stay good for about 10 weeks.

  7. #7
    scotttiger54's Avatar
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    thanks for all the info bros

  8. #8
    Captain Fantastic's Avatar
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    Question info

    Quote Originally Posted by Swole33
    J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Feb 15; [Epub ahead of print]
    LOW DOSE HUMAN CHORIONIC GONADOTROPIN MAINTAINS INTRATESTICULAR TESTOSTERONE IN NORMAL MEN WITH TESTOSTERONE INDUCED GONADOTROPIN SUPPRESSION.

    Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Herbst KL, Amory JK, Anawalt BD, Sutton PR, Wright WW, Brown TR, Yan X, Zirkin BR, Jarow JP.

    Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Veteran Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System (AMM), and Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine (ADC, WJB, JKA, BDA, PLS), Seattle, WA; Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University (KLH), Los Angeles, CA; Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (XY, JPJ), Baltimore, MD; Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health (WWW, TRB, XY, BRZ, JPJ), Baltimore, MD.

    In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally we sought to determine the dose response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG ) and ITT to determine the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate (TE) weekly in combination with either saline placebo or hCG 125 IU, 250 IU, or 500 IU every other day for 3 weeks. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/L) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/L). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 nmol/L to 72 nmol/L) in the TE/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Post-treatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

    PMID: 15713727 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
    good info....I think. anyone out there can put this in laymans term.

    what about taking HCG a couple weeks after PCT in order to minimize time between cycles?

  9. #9
    BIGGEST J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 511220
    This is similar to what I will be doing except for starting HCG at 500iu e3d one week before my last shot of test and extending one week after. I'll immediately start PCT 3 days after the last HCG injection, which would be the 10th day after the last test cyp shot. The testicles at this point will be in much better shape to respond to the influx of LH production via tamofixen use (clomid)

    While I have no prior experience in AAS use or HCG for that matter. The extensive reading and sifting through conflicting information on HCG use leads me to believe that this may produce the most efficient restoration of normal HPTA function in the least amount of time.

    I'm in week 5 of my 300/300 test/eq cycle and have had zero estrogenic sides (with the exception of some immediate water weight only seen on the scale). So the Nolvadex will be used at 20mg ed along with the HCG administration and continued two weeks into the clomid PCT.

    511220
    i think u meant clomephene citraat??

  10. #10
    511220's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGGEST J
    i think u meant clomephene citraat??
    Fixed, thanks. Tamoxifen is Nolva...good lookin out

    511220

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