PCT advice

[Rufus]

I've just done 5 weeks of:
250 mg Sus
200mg Deca and
200mg Primo

and now just finishing off with 600mg of masteron over 2 weeks.

For PCT i was planning
Day 1 300mg Clomid
Day 2 - 14 100mg Clomid
Day 15 - 21 50mg Clomid
Day 1, 6, 11 2500iu of HCG
Day 1 - 21 20mg Nolvadex

Can anyone critique this for me please and give me any advice?

[LuvMuhRoids]

run the HCG 2 weeks while your waiting to do PCT not during clomid treatment. Clomid will be useless at this point if you jump start LH production because the pituitary will think it is already there and clomid will only become as good as a anti-estrogen.

HCG mimics Lutrenizing Hormones anyways and you should be more concerned with clomid treatment but absolutely dont run them together.

[clhp20]

I've just done 5 weeks of:
250 mg Sus
200mg Deca and
200mg Primo

and now just finishing off with 600mg of masteron over 2 weeks.

For PCT i was planning
Day 1 300mg Clomid
Day 2 - 14 100mg Clomid
Day 15 - 21 50mg Clomid
Day 1, 6, 11 2500iu of HCG
Day 1 - 21 20mg Nolvadex

Can anyone critique this for me please and give me any advice?

Is the total cycle 5 weeks ?

[wolfyEVH]

Is the total cycle 5 weeks ?

if so, that cycle was a complete waste of gear......deca and primo at 200?? HCG wont be needed.......im curious as to how much weight you gained......no cycle should be shorter than 10 weeks IMO.....unless you're running like suspension or prop......

[LuvMuhRoids]

I agree, it is a short cycle and HCG most likely wont be needed for stimulation during this time.

I would still run a 30day clomid/nolva treatment. There still is a suppression here.

My opinion, I would have saved the gear and waited to buy more so to run an 8-10 weeker. Maybe even 12.

[Rufus]

it was 7 weeks in total, and i gained about half a stone, doing epherdrine and clen , on low carb 2 so was quite impressed.

How come no hcg during PCT luvmuhroids, its just i've seen plenty of hcg during PCT cycles, ur theory does sound right though.

[wolfyEVH]

it was 7 weeks in total, and i gained about half a stone, doing epherdrine and clen , on low carb 2 so was quite impressed.

How come no hcg during PCT luvmuhroids, its just i've seen plenty of hcg during PCT cycles, ur theory does sound right though.

you dont run HCG during PCT

[Rufus]

Also i meant to add that as i'm running masteron for two weeks so i've only got 1 week gap as deca u have to wait 3 weeks dont u?

[wolfyEVH]

why didnt you post your cycle before you did it to see what people had to say??? you've been here since 2003 so you must have read some posts on how to properly cycle......why sus deca and primo for only 5 weeks?? (and why that low of dose) why masteron for only 2 weeks.......

so you were doing ephedrine and clen and low carb diet WHILE on your cycle???

[Rufus]

Because i didn't want to bloat out, the deca and primo are there for my cutting and the sus just to keep everything in working order, thing is i've been on here and it's the first time i've heard of not using hcg during pct, even the clomid profile suggests it. Plus people like author l. rea and william llyewellyn suggest to in their cycles to.

[clhp20]

From Peter "Big Cat" Van Mol



Characteristics:

Human chorionic gonadotrophin is a strange hormone. Its only found in the placenta of pregnant women. For women it has fairly little use if any however, but to the male athlete it has one interesting property. It can mimic the action of luteinizing hormone (LH) in the body. LH is a pituitary hormone that is released and signals the manufacture of testosterone in the testicles. The sex hormones in the body work via a negative feedback system, where too much sex hormone (like anabolic androgenic steroids and estrogens) causes a signal to the brain to stop the release of LH. During long duration cycles, if natural test stays suppressed for considerable time, a male user will begin to note an atrophy in his testicles, meaning they will visibly shrink purely out of disuse. By administering an LH-mimicking agent, one can bring back the function of the testicles and let them regain their size. This is the main use of HCG .

Since it forms testosterone in the body to some extent, it can impart certain performance enhancing properties, but usually these are not major. The side-effects accompanied with HCG use (usually androgenic such as extreme acne), its low rate of effect, the cost compared to more effective steroids and so on will mostly keep athletes from using it for that purpose. Moreover it can be tested for in athletic competitions, so most will stay clear of it. But to the steroid user HCG is an almost essential part of a cycle. Because of its effect on bringing testicle size back it can promote the return of natural testosterone, since the first natural signals can immediately deliver a higher yield of testosterone in the body. And getting natural testosterone back online after a cycle is crucial, especially if you intend to keep most of your hard-earned gains. Without adequate natural endocrine response you will not be able to maintain a mass that was higher than before.



The downside is that HCG too is suppressive of natural testosterone. Because it takes the place of LH. LH is not the first step in the chain of command, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which is secreted from the hypothalamus. And since an LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously, the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will still tell it to stop making GnRH, and so no natural LH is produced. This is why the product is always used in conjunction with a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like clomid or Nolvadex . When the androgen level in the body has dropped, these antagonists will lower estrogenic response creating a steroid deficit that signals the Hypothalamus to start making GnRH. When it does, after HCG therapy, testicle size is up again and shortly thereafter natural testosterone manufacture should return to normal. But therefore its crucial that users note that though HCG is essential after long cycles, it shouldn't be used without clomid or Nolvadex AND HCG should be discontinued at least two weeks before coming off Clomid or Nolvadex or else it will suppress natural testosterone itself.

Also important to take into account : using HCG for too long a period of time or in doses that are excessively high, can desensitize the testicles to the effect of LH and would put your right back where you started from. Basically that would mean you spent money to no avail. In terms of side-effects one should expect some androgenic signs such as acne and there is a risk for hair loss or prostate hypertrophy, but in most cases this compound will be used for 3-4 weeks, so these should not manifest themselves to any serious degree. There will also be some estrogen build-up, but since the user HAS to be on clomid or Nolvadex, this should not become apparent either. Next to this, HCG being a fertility drug, one should be aware that increased blood pressure and blood clotting can occur. HCG is clinically used to make women ovulate, or to invoke birth in pregnant women.

Stacking and Use:

You would normally opt to use HCG after you've done a long cycle, usually 8 weeks or more. Note that almost all proper cycles are 8 weeks or more in length, its just that some beginners have a phobia of needles and opt to waste their time with an all oral stack first, in which case the cycle wouldn't be longer than 6-7 weeks. In these cases too HCG can have a use, but most of the time testicular atrophy will not have progressed to such a stage that it is an absolute necessity. In any case, you should run it about 3 weeks, totaling about 4 shots. One every 5-6 days. Start off with one shot of 3000 IU somewhere in the last week of your stack, then another 3000 5 days later, then drop to 1500 5 days later and a last shot of 1500 6 days after that. Sometime after the second or third shot, therapy with Nolvadex or clomid should be commenced and continued for 4-5 weeks. How to do this, I refer you to the Nolva/clomid profile.

In any case, I'll repeat it again, since it is important. HCG IS and always will be an important part of post-cycle recovery, but it should never be run too long or at too high a dose and should always be accompanied by the use of either Clomid or Nolvadex. The use of Clomid or Nolvadex should also be continued at least 2 weeks after HCG is discontinued to avoid the HCG causing problems.

[LuvMuhRoids]

I never heard of people running HCG on PCT. Not here on AR or any other site. If they did and they suggest it then they are wrong.

Clomid is a Lutrenizing Hormone stimulator. When LH levels become present in the testes then the pituitary begin to send signals to produce natural testosterone and stimulation of the testes begin.

If you run HCG which instantly produces a fake or mimiced Lutrenizing Hormone then clomid wont do a thing for you. The pituitary sends signals either way but HCG is a short and quick fix but not a method to proper HPTA restore.

Clomid is the only proper stimulation to a true tri-axis stimulation. HCG is a temporary method meant to treat testicular atrophy.

Users on steroids for long periods of time such as a year use HCG in the weeks just before they start clomid therapy to help boost clomid treatment and LH production. Sometimes users will adminster HCG 1-2 days a week during cycle but only in low dosages such as 250-500 units. Anything more has shown to cause a down regulation which can become permanent.

This is the only method I have seen HCG and clomid used together.

it was 7 weeks in total, and i gained about half a stone, doing epherdrine and clen , on low carb 2 so was quite impressed.

How come no hcg during PCT luvmuhroids, its just i've seen plenty of hcg during PCT cycles, ur theory does sound right though.

[wolfyEVH]

correct........this is something we need to clear up for the newbies......

I never heard of people running HCG on PCT. Not here on AR or any other site. If they did and they suggest it then they are wrong.

Clomid is a Lutrenizing Hormone stimulator. When LH levels become present in the testes then the pituitary begin to send signals to produce natural testosterone and stimulation of the testes begin.

If you run HCG which instantly produces a fake or mimiced Lutrenizing Hormone then clomid wont do a thing for you. The pituitary sends signals either way but HCG is a short and quick fix but not a method to proper HPTA restore.

Clomid is the only proper stimulation to a true tri-axis stimulation. HCG is a temporary method meant to treat testicular atrophy.

Users on steroids for long periods of time such as a year use HCG in the weeks just before they start clomid therapy to help boost clomid treatment and LH production. Sometimes users will adminster HCG 1-2 days a week during cycle but only in low dosages such as 250-500 units. Anything more has shown to cause a down regulation which can become permanent.

This is the only method I have seen HCG and clomid used together.

[Rufus]

so what u guys suggest, i just take a single 2500iu shot of hcg and then 5 days later start clomid therapy?

Also thanks for all your help.

[LuvMuhRoids]

2500 is to much and I suggest you run 500 for 5 days then wait and run clomid therapy. you will benefit much greater from lower dosages over a time period rather than one large dose one day.

so what u guys suggest, i just take a single 2500iu shot of hcg and then 5 days later start clomid therapy?

Also thanks for all your help.