Nolvadex Deadly!

[DizzyBoy]

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/fo...ad.php?t=12068 I am now not going to use Nolvadex in my first PCT. I was thinking of using Clomid but I've heard that it hosts a number of eye problems. What is the best PCT drug to use that isn't going to come w/ a # of side effects? This all has me worried about PCT.

[MatrixGuy]

Clomid is a must IMO. I would use nolva too and maybe l-dex.

[unoigo]

Great Post bro! I would like to hear responses from some of our mods and vets!

[stocky121]

agreed iwould also like some mod's and vet's view's on this subject

[birsling]

My mind is blown! Where's Pheedno? or Hooker?

[DizzyBoy]

C'mon MODS! I am interested in your POV on this one.

[klubhead]

i've read lots of posts and this one def. grabs my attention!! bump it up for mods/vets to comment on the subject

[swoll4589]

personally i dont know how much of that is hype and how much is true.... i mean cooking your food in styrofoam can suposely cause cancer.... tuna is full of mercury.... etc alot of stuff COULD be harmful to SOME.

bump for mods/vets

[johnsomebody]

I posted a similar thread months ago and nobody seemed to care. Maybe too much money is at stake.

Do a Google on Tamoxifen and oculotoxicity or retinipathy or carcinogenesis and you'll find plenty of stuff.
Example: "Tamoxifen, the antioestrogenic drug prescribed for long-term, low-dose therapy of breast cancer, induces retinopathy." http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/mksg/pto/2002/00000091/00000001/art00003[/url]
I've been having vision problems myself from the stuff -Clomid is even worse.

[johnsomebody]

ichabodcrane 12-21-2002 03:32 AM
I have posted on this subject before. Both tamoxifen and clomiphene have been shown to cause oculotoxicity. Theses drugs appear to effect the cornea, retina and optic nerve leading to crystalline retinal deposits, macular edema, and corneal changes, even reports of cataracts. The exact mechanism I am not sure of, but may be due to microdeposition/precitation of the drug. These drugs also block chloride channels. Chloride channels in the lens of the eye are seem to be essential for maintaining normal lens hydration and transmittance. One note is that most of these clinical trials were case reports or prospective studies involving women being treated for breast cancer genereally over a long duration of time 1-5 years or >. Some studies indicate that short term toxicity is completely reversible, while others are not so clear. So take it for what it's worth. I couldn't say that switching from one SERM to another would increase or decrease your chance of toxicity, or if short intermittent use would decrease chances of tox either. But we do know the potential is there. Sad but true.

[Joey2ness]

is human chorionic gonadotrophin good for pct

Theres another drug called viagra that can cause rare vision problems as asaid on CNN

The FDA has 42 reports of the blindness, 38 among users of Viagra and four among users of Cialis. There were no cases reported among users of Levitra, the third impotence drug.

FDA probes blindness among Viagra users
http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/condi....blindness.ap/

[unoigo]

^Bump^ Mods, Vets......Bueller...........Bueller............

[DizzyBoy]

Bizzump!!

[johnsomebody]

In lieu of hearing from the local experts, here are a couple articles in relation to liver cancer and tamoxifen I found just from searching tamoxifen and carcinogenesis on Google, which may calm jangled nerves in the meantime. Keep in mind the original article posted is not from any kind of peer-reviewed journal, as those below are, and seems pretty cleary from a naturopathic, anti-drug viewpoint

http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...full/20/7/1153

Based on a mechanistic understanding of tamoxifen-induced liver carcinogenesis in the rat, it seems that in humans hepatic DNA damage will be close to the limit of detection by 32P-post-labelling and liver cancer will not be a significant carcinogenic risk.


http://www.jco.org/cgi/content/abstract/16/2/779

Unlike the data in rats, there is no conclusive evidence to link tamoxifen with an increased rate of hepatocellular cancer in humans; the contrasting carcinogenic potential may be attributed to substantial interspecies differences in the metabolism of tamoxifen.

[johnsomebody]

This is an important area of study since women who are predisposed to breast cancer have been advised to consider using tamoxifen indefinitely to prevent the likelihood of it occuring or recurring, so there's a lot of info out there.

[longhorn814]

drinking too much water can kill you too!!

Bump this for mods and vets!

[MASTER]

dont be so paranoid, pretty much all prescription drugs can have potentially deadly affects on people, but in rare cases. I wouldnt read 2 much into this, people have used it safely for decades, has it been banned? No, so clearly it isnt considered responsible for a significant amount of health problems. At the end of the day u gotta look at the risk factor, if u dont want to use clomid and nolva, u wont keep ur gains, or have ne balls, so dont do gear. If u do, u gotta put very rare those side effects at the back of ur mind, and deal with them if you get them. JMO