PCT and Cycle Recomendations: Estrogen, Progesterone and Cortisol control

**Leader05** · 10-25-2006, 02:06 AM

very informative post...an eye opener

Thanks for sharing

**BGIZZLE8629** · 12-14-2006, 12:07 PM

Where is the PROVIRON ???

**Phil ORourke** · 12-23-2006, 12:33 PM

tanks i learned something about cortisol

**Drummerboy** · 01-28-2007, 08:08 PM

Proviron can be used to block estrogen of course... however it is well explained in the other section by Mr. Roberts.

Originally Posted by BGIZZLE8629

Where is the PROVIRON???

***Narkissos*** · 02-01-2007, 10:42 PM

bump.

**athlete20** · 05-28-2007, 01:44 PM

So basically, a Toremifene/Aromasin PCT would be better than a Nolva/Clomid/Aromasin one?

**pyschomab** · 06-03-2007, 05:03 PM

very informative! Ill defiantly try vitamin c after my next cycle to block cortisol!

**Drummerboy** · 06-03-2007, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by athlete20

So basically, a Toremifene/Aromasin PCT would be better than a Nolva/Clomid/Aromasin one?

I think the aro/nolva/hcg is the preferred, but everyone is different

**the fly** · 06-12-2007, 09:48 PM

Just finished this
12 weeks
week 1-12 Test Cyp 200 MG 2x week
During Test week 1-4 Dbol 30mg everyday
During Test week 8-12 winstrol 50mg every day.

I ran Nolvadex 10 mg ed for 1 week, then ill do 20 mg ed for 2 weeks. That’s my plan for PCT on the Above is that ok? PLEASE suggest a decent minimal PCT if just Nolvadex isn’t ok.

NOW I want to start this masteron cycle ASAP

8 - 10 week cycle
During week 1- 8 or 10 test Cyp 200 MG 2x a week
During week 1- 8 or 10 Masteron 100mg EOD
Winny 25 or 50 mgs every day? or every other day?

I’m 5' 8.5”, 182LBS age 33 male.

When can I start the masteron and any tips on the cycle????

Suggestions for PCT on this cycle too?

I get confused because PCT is defined as Post Cycle Therapy but really seems to take place during the cycle also.
Another confusing point is that it is said to start PCT 18 days after last inject of test cyp and 24 hours after last winstrol admin.
So if I end them both at the same time, then when does PCT start?
Do you go with the furthest out date because you still have steroids in your system?

Please advise on all above.

**Drummerboy** · 07-02-2007, 03:52 PM

PM me ill answer there

**texasman0206** · 08-11-2007, 09:36 AM

Great info...

**lee_fitness** · 08-22-2007, 08:11 PM

[QUOTE=Drummerboy]Ok here goes...

AI's (Aromatase Inhibitors) : There are 2 types of AI's. Type I (suicide inhibitor) attaches to the aromatase enzyme and permanently disables it. Type II compete for the enzyme, but dont destroy it. Both are effective at lowering estrogen substantially. Both are commonly used during both cycling and PCT. Used mainly when low estrogen levels are desired, like contest preparation/cutting. Beware that lowering estrogen with strong AI's can have a negative effect on cholesterol levels.

Aromasin (Exemestane) : This drug is classified as a Type I Suicide AI. It binds to the aromatase enzyme and kills it. It is effective at lowering estrogen up to 85%. Once again, you have to watch out for your cholesterol levels. Used mainly for cutting when low estrogen levels are desired. Aromasin is shown to help bone density. Clinical doses are about 25mg a day, but it has been shown that as little as 2.5mg a day can be as effective.

Lentaron (Formestane) : A Type I Suicide AI. Lentaron is not classified as a drug, and can be sold over the counter as a suppliment. Not as strong as the third generation AIs (arimidex , femera). Can lower estrogen by about 60%. Used as an injectable, it is dosed at about 250mg every 2 weeks. Due to poor bioavailability, daily doses of oral Lentaron are about 250mg.

Arimidex (Anastrozole) : This is a widely used type II AI. It competes with estrogen for the aromatase enzyme. This effectively lowers estrogen up to 80% in the blood. Approved for use in 1995 to fight breast cancer. At doses up to 1mg a day, it has been shown to be very effective at controlling estrogen while on cycle or in PCT. It is usefull for curbing the effects that come with aromatizing AAS's while in cycle, and can be used in PCT. Nolvadex is shown to decrease the effectiveness of Arimidex when used together. In this case a suicide inhibitor may be more well suited, like in PCT. It is also called L-dex, in its liquid form.

Femera (Letrozole) : Letro is a competative Type II AI also. Also farely new compared to other compounds, it is shown to be effective at lowering estrogen by blocking the aromatase enzyme. Doses up to 2.5mg a day are used, but usually as low as .5mg a day can be just as effective. Clinical studies show Femera to lower estrogen by 75-78%. Once again, watch out for you blood lipids (cholesterol) to get out of whack. There may a noted rebound effect of estrogen levels that goes along with Letro use.

Quote:...

Great post but isnt you info on letro @ blocking estrogen out dated. Thes figures dont seem to match as Letro is commonly know to lower estrogen to 95% + ?

arimidex 60% aroma 50%? I'll have to recheck this source on the adex + aroma, but the Letro?? why do you say is lowers estrogen less when it is a very strong AI.

Please reply.

Thanks, Lee

**jnm** · 09-01-2007, 01:35 PM

informative, much appreciated

**Big_guy17** · 11-18-2007, 08:59 PM

Sustanon 250:

First 2 weeks (500mg once a week)
Stay at 250mg for the rest of the cycle

Any PCTs?

**Drummerboy** · 11-28-2007, 03:30 PM

[quote=lee_fitness;3601555]

Originally Posted by Drummerboy

Ok here goes...

AI's (Aromatase Inhibitors) : There are 2 types of AI's. Type I (suicide inhibitor) attaches to the aromatase enzyme and permanently disables it. Type II compete for the enzyme, but dont destroy it. Both are effective at lowering estrogen substantially. Both are commonly used during both cycling and PCT. Used mainly when low estrogen levels are desired, like contest preparation/cutting. Beware that lowering estrogen with strong AI's can have a negative effect on cholesterol levels.

Aromasin (Exemestane) : This drug is classified as a Type I Suicide AI. It binds to the aromatase enzyme and kills it. It is effective at lowering estrogen up to 85%. Once again, you have to watch out for your cholesterol levels. Used mainly for cutting when low estrogen levels are desired. Aromasin is shown to help bone density. Clinical doses are about 25mg a day, but it has been shown that as little as 2.5mg a day can be as effective.

Lentaron (Formestane) : A Type I Suicide AI. Lentaron is not classified as a drug, and can be sold over the counter as a suppliment. Not as strong as the third generation AIs (arimidex , femera). Can lower estrogen by about 60%. Used as an injectable, it is dosed at about 250mg every 2 weeks. Due to poor bioavailability, daily doses of oral Lentaron are about 250mg.

Arimidex (Anastrozole) : This is a widely used type II AI. It competes with estrogen for the aromatase enzyme. This effectively lowers estrogen up to 80% in the blood. Approved for use in 1995 to fight breast cancer. At doses up to 1mg a day, it has been shown to be very effective at controlling estrogen while on cycle or in PCT. It is usefull for curbing the effects that come with aromatizing AAS's while in cycle, and can be used in PCT. Nolvadex is shown to decrease the effectiveness of Arimidex when used together. In this case a suicide inhibitor may be more well suited, like in PCT. It is also called L-dex, in its liquid form.

Femera (Letrozole) : Letro is a competative Type II AI also. Also farely new compared to other compounds, it is shown to be effective at lowering estrogen by blocking the aromatase enzyme. Doses up to 2.5mg a day are used, but usually as low as .5mg a day can be just as effective. Clinical studies show Femera to lower estrogen by 75-78%. Once again, watch out for you blood lipids (cholesterol) to get out of whack. There may a noted rebound effect of estrogen levels that goes along with Letro use.

Quote:...

Great post but isnt you info on letro @ blocking estrogen out dated. Thes figures dont seem to match as Letro is commonly know to lower estrogen to 95% + ?

arimidex 60% aroma 50%? I'll have to recheck this source on the adex + aroma, but the Letro?? why do you say is lowers estrogen less when it is a very strong AI.

Please reply.

Thanks, Lee

depends on the dose.

**mayhemike** · 01-17-2008, 10:10 PM

Good Info!

**dovedescent** · 02-23-2008, 10:49 AM

thanks much appreciated

***perfectbeast2001*** · 03-03-2008, 06:11 PM

excellent read mate.

**Drummerboy** · 03-03-2008, 07:35 PM

thnx

**liftin** · 03-03-2008, 07:59 PM

why doesnt the sponsor sell TOR..

**Drummerboy** · 03-03-2008, 11:48 PM

tor??

**Jackblack20** · 03-23-2008, 10:43 AM

First of all great post!

Now for questions:
How does a product like propecia compare with the other RI's that you mentioned...also do those RI's that you mentioned have an affect on the anabolic gains because blocking conversion of test to DHT, or are they specific to the cites where they are needed (sculp, prostate) more then in the muscles? and which one do you recommend?

Aslo you don't seem too big on blocking cortisol, I know you mentioned a healthy diet, vitamins, and I know sleep is always a big factor. I know it's listed as a Proggesterone control, but have you found out any more info on RU-486?

Also how do you feel about a natural herb such as terrestris tribulus used in PCT, to help naturally restore your test levels?

I also have been hearing a lot about using Proviron in PCT, what is your outlook on that?

**Drummerboy** · 03-23-2008, 12:24 PM

i dont use dht blockers, but i do hear that they can hinder your gains somewhat. Im not sure what is in propecia... i believe thats a commercial name for a product? When you take test, you are blocking cortisol. Its the rebound after a cycle ppl should watch for. I havent really heard much about ru-486, except for a few guys that have used it and like it... however i dont think its widely used enough to gather information. With all the standard PCT stuff out there, i dont think there is a need to go for that. Tribulus is good for some ppl and wouldnt hurt to try. Its natural, so you could add it to PCT without problems IMO. Proviron is also a mild estrogen blocker, but again, with basics like nolvadex , aromasin , clomid, arimidex , hcg , etc i dont think you have to look elsewhere for good pct stuff. You could give it a shot tho, i would read up on the proviron profile to get a better picture of how to properly use it.

~DB~

**Jackblack20** · 03-24-2008, 01:48 PM

Thanks for the answers...
Yeah propecia is actually the brand name for finasteride, i found out. It sounds like in your description that avodart (dutasteride) is actually the better way to go for sides, but does this mean decrease in strength gains...I'm curious about RI's cause I'm prone to hairloss, and want to prevent that as much as possible. I've read the proviron profile, and Roberts doesn't seem to give it very good reviews, but I"ve heard a lot about it in the Q&A section, and how a lot of people run it throughout there cycle, it also is suppose to free-up testosterone , which is obviously needed during PCT... yeah i think a good tribulus product might help just to get your nat test levels back up and flowin, that is the trickiest part i hear.... so when are you going to come out with your full DB PCT protocol? I'll be interested in taking a look at it with all the interesting profiles you listed in this section!! Do you have much experience with PCT....what have you found works best?
-JB

**Drummerboy** · 03-26-2008, 05:44 PM

well, for me, the anothony roberts PCT is a great way to go...

**39+1** · 05-05-2008, 11:03 AM

thank you

**Drummerboy** · 06-03-2008, 12:22 AM

your welcome

**J-Dogg** · 06-08-2008, 11:32 AM

PCT has come a long way. I've been a memeber for a long time and PCT was not a big subject in early 2000's.

I suffered some gyno cause of it. Honestly, the PCT is more important to maintain a healthy life style and over all happiness than the cycle and gains. Ever try being happy with C cups? It's awful to work so hard and not want to take off your shirt.

Stay up on your PCT!

**wrj** · 06-16-2008, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

PCT has come a long way. I've been a memeber for a long time and PCT was not a big subject in early 2000's.

I suffered some gyno cause of it. Honestly, the PCT is more important to maintain a healthy life style and over all happiness than the cycle and gains. Ever try being happy with C cups? It's awful to work so hard and not want to take off your shirt.

Stay up on your PCT!

Word!

**Swifto** · 01-12-2009, 03:40 PM

Drummer, what have you found in the way of evidence confirming Clen blocks cortisol?

I've read nothing conslusive at all...

**Drummerboy** · 01-15-2009, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Drummer, what have you found in the way of evidence confirming Clen blocks cortisol?

I've read nothing conslusive at all...

The article i got that from is from soooo long ago... i havent actually given a second thought... however ill take a peek around... im betting that this is theory and im not going to find anything concrete in the way of good research. If i do however, i will post it.

~DB~

**Drummerboy** · 01-15-2009, 07:24 PM

now that i think about it... i think that came from anabolics 2005 or some textbook i have... ill try to dig it up

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-15-2009, 07:28 PM

^^^ id be interested ..ive only ever seen 2 studies one on horses where it decreased cortisol ...and 1 on rats where it increased cortisol. I have never found any human studies re: this topic...

**Swifto** · 01-16-2009, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^^ id be interested ..ive only ever seen 2 studies one on horses where it decreased cortisol ...and 1 on rats where it increased cortisol. I have never found any human studies re: this topic...

Agreed.

Although some say its has anti-catabolic properties.

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-16-2009, 04:34 PM

^^^ ive often wondered if thats not due to the increased rate of protein synthesis - which occurs with anything that increases BMR ...but with clen esp since its mech of action is also muscle sparing..unlike say dnp or t3 which is indiscriminate. Just a thought...

**ma3adi_Darkman** · 01-29-2009, 08:34 PM

thanks man for sharing ur infromtion with us

**Charlie80** · 01-30-2009, 11:35 AM

My brother took Superplexx for one cycle and did not do any PCT which led to gyno. Any suggestions on how to get rid of it? He was given bad information from a local supplement store and has had the gyno for about a year now.

**drigocuz8** · 02-07-2009, 02:26 AM

Good info! Good post!

**Voltaire** · 02-17-2009, 02:22 AM

very informative. Great read!

**wrj** · 03-22-2009, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Drummerboy

now that i think about it... i think that came from anabolics 2005 or some textbook i have... ill try to dig it up

Clen doesn't block cortisol, PERIOD! ... it increases oxygen in the blood thereby increasing the likelyhood of an anabolic state which we all know is not a catabolic state or a cortisol friendly environment ...

W