Please help

**Ironarms** · 08-13-2006, 05:49 PM

age 25
205 lbs
9% bf
have done a few cycles

I AM SO CONFUSED! I thought i knew a lot about steroids but im thinking i need to know a little more. im off of my cycle and currently using clomid and trib and aromisin. I feel as if my sex drive does not exist. I finally got hcg , should i use it or not?

if yes do i do 500 iu every 5 days...1 shot of 5,000 iu every week?

im nervous that im screwed up....once i get the proper advice on what to do, im going to blood tested to check my levels

please help

**Anabolios** · 08-13-2006, 05:50 PM

Don't use hcg when you are in pct. Why do you say attention mods? There are a lot of knowledgeable members here ya know.

**Merc..** · 08-13-2006, 05:54 PM

If you use HCG for post cycle you will need to add nolva. Hcg is suppressive on 17 ohp but when used in conjunction with nolva it blocks hcg suppressive nature.. I would recommend trying Hookers pct protocol. Look below my post in my signature and you will see a link to Hookers pct..

**Anabolios** · 08-13-2006, 05:56 PM

Hmm I'd be a bit skeptical about hcg in pct but if you say so mercedes...A training partner of mine used hcg in pct last year with nolva,clomid,and proviron and bloodwork showed that he was not recovered properly. It could've been from 14 weeks on deca though ya never know.

**Merc..** · 08-13-2006, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Anabolios

Don't use hcg when you are in pct. Why do you say attention mods? There are a lot of knowledgeable members here ya know.

Anabolios, I know alot of people here suggest not to use HCG during pct but I disagree. Here is a copy of a post from another thread that I posted on why Hcg can be used during pct when using nolva to block its suppressive nature.. I wanted to get your feedback on this and why you think Hcg is not good for PCT?? Just looking for feedback on the whole issue my friend !! Heres a copy of my post on what I think about it!!..

You will need to use nolva when using HCG in pct( alot of people dont use hcg for PCT).. HCG can cause testicular desensitization( it is suppressive) The problem is HCG blocks the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone into testosterone . Nolva used in conjunction with HCG will stop this blocking action from happening.. There are people that don't think nolva can stop hcg's suppressive nature but if they took the time to look up desensitise and leydig on pubmed they would see that desensitization is not caused by PKC and therefore is likly to be caused by HCG's effects on 17- OHP and those effects would be blocked by nolva... Please checkout the link below in my signature to hookers pct for more info on this.. I dont think you need clomid I would use nolva hcg and aromasin . Any suppression from the estrogen engendered by the hcg is going to be halted with the aromasin.. Sorry for the rant on that but I just like to explain reasons why I am saying what I am...

**Ironarms** · 08-13-2006, 06:01 PM

going to look at that thread now and will get back to u in a few minutes

**Anabolios** · 08-13-2006, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by mercedesdd

Anabolios, I know alot of people here suggest not to use HCG during pct but I disagree. Here is a copy of a post from another thread that I posted on why Hcg can be used during pct when using nolva to block its suppressive nature.. I wanted to get your feedback on this and why you think Hcg is not good for PCT?? Just looking for feedback on the whole issue my friend !! Heres a copy of my post..

You will need to use nolva when using HCG in pct( alot of people dont use hcg for PCT).. HCG is can cause testicular desensitization( it is suppressive) The problem is HCG blocks the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone into testosterone. Nolva used in conjunction with HCG will stop this blocking action from happening.. There are people that don't think nolva can stop hcg's suppressive nature but if they took the time to look up desensitise and leydig on pubmed they would see that desensitization is not caused by PKC and therefore is likly to be caused by HCG's effects on 17- OHP and those effects would be blocked by nolva... Please checkout the link below in my signature to hookers pct for more info on this.. I dont think you need clomid I would use nolva hcg and aromasin. Any suppression from the estrogen engendered by the hcg is going to be halted with the aromasin.. Sorry for the rant on that but I just like to explain reasons why I am saying what I am...

That is a very good read. I ALWAYS read that hcg was suppressive but this looks like a good theory that is backed up by facts. Thanks MDD

**Ironarms** · 08-13-2006, 06:05 PM

i have seen this before...how do i measure 500 iu if each crack off is 5000 iu...thats like 1 tenth of the cc?

**Kale** · 08-13-2006, 06:21 PM

How long have you been on PCT and exactly what doses of Clomid and Nolvadex are you taking ? Thats if you are taking Nolvadex of course

**Ironarms** · 08-13-2006, 06:53 PM

300/100/50
25 mg aromisin ed
i have 9 50 mg pills left to take

**Ironarms** · 08-13-2006, 07:12 PM

bump

**Kale** · 08-13-2006, 07:13 PM

Well how long have you been on PCT ?

**Property of Steroid.com** · 08-14-2006, 07:22 AM

I think HCG post-cycle is very much a necessity. Actually, HCG has been used alone, to help recover endocrine function in athletes who have impaired testosterone levels due to anabolic steroid use . In other words, not only does it work for PCT, but it has been shown to actually work without using anything else.

Postgrad Med J. 1998 Jan;74(867):45-6. Links
Anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism treated with human chorionic gonadotropin.

Gill GV.

Endocrine Unit, Walton Hospital, Liverpool, UK.
A case is presented of a young competitive body-builder who abused anabolic steroid drugs and developed profound symptomatic hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. With the help of prescribed testosterone (Sustanon ) he stopped taking anabolic drugs, and later stopped Sustanon also. Hypogonadism returned, but was successfully treated with weekly injections of human chorionic gonadotropin for three months. Testicular function remained normal thereafter on no treatment. The use of human chorionic gonadotropin should be considered in prolonged hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism due to anabolic steroid abuse.
PMID: 9538490 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Jul;25(1):109-12. Links
Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic gonadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes.

Serum concentrations of testosterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estradiol and several other unconjugated and sulphated steroids were analyzed before and after a single dose of hCG in 6 power athletes, who had used high doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids for 3 months. The study was carried out 3 weeks after cessation of drug use, but the study subjects were still characterized by hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. The mean concentrations of serum LH and FSH were 2.6 +/- 0.3 and 1.1 +/- 0.03 mIU/ml (mean +/- SEM), respectively, and the concentrations of several precursors and metabolites of testosterone were lower than those before drug use. In contrast, circulating concentrations of steroid sulphates were not decreased, with the exception of dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate. After hCG injection serum testosterone and 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone concentrations increased significantly, whereas no increases in estradiol and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations were observed. These results demonstrate that during transient hypogonadotrophism in adult men, the testicular responsiveness to a single injection of hCG is similar to that in prepubertal boys without any sign of steroidogenic lesion at the 17,20-desmolase step. Therefore, the appearance of the possibly estradiol-mediated inhibition at the level of C21-steroid side-chain splitting in testosterone biosynthesis seems to be dependent on priming by gonadotrophins.
PMID: 3747510 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

**Kale** · 08-14-2006, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

I think HCG post-cycle is very much a necessity. Actually, HCG has been used alone, to help recover endocrine function in athletes who have impaired testosterone levels due to anabolic steroid use . In other words, not only does it work for PCT, but it has been shown to actually work without using anything else.

J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Jul;25(1):109-12. Links
Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic gonadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes.

Serum concentrations of testosterone , 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estradiol and several other unconjugated and sulphated steroids were analyzed before and after a single dose of hCG in 6 power athletes, who had used high doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids for 3 months. The study was carried out 3 weeks after cessation of drug use, but the study subjects were still characterized by hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. The mean concentrations of serum LH and FSH were 2.6 +/- 0.3 and 1.1 +/- 0.03 mIU/ml (mean +/- SEM), respectively, and the concentrations of several precursors and metabolites of testosterone were lower than those before drug use. In contrast, circulating concentrations of steroid sulphates were not decreased, with the exception of dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate. After hCG injection serum testosterone and 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone concentrations increased significantly, whereas no increases in estradiol and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations were observed. These results demonstrate that during transient hypogonadotrophism in adult men, the testicular responsiveness to a single injection of hCG is similar to that in prepubertal boys without any sign of steroidogenic lesion at the 17,20-desmolase step. Therefore, the appearance of the possibly estradiol-mediated inhibition at the level of C21-steroid side-chain splitting in testosterone biosynthesis seems to be dependent on priming by gonadotrophins.
PMID: 3747510 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Intersting, I wonder if anybody is willing to put it to the test

**No One Knows** · 08-14-2006, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Anabolios

Don't use hcg when you are in pct. Why do you say attention mods? There are a lot of knowledgeable members here ya know.

Apparently he doesn't like your response unless you parrot 1,000 replies per month

**Merc..** · 08-14-2006, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

I think HCG post-cycle is very much a necessity. Actually, HCG has been used alone, to help recover endocrine function in athletes who have impaired testosterone levels due to anabolic steroid use . In other words, not only does it work for PCT, but it has been shown to actually work without using anything else.

Postgrad Med J. 1998 Jan;74(867):45-6. Links
Anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism treated with human chorionic gonadotropin.

Gill GV.

Endocrine Unit, Walton Hospital, Liverpool, UK.
A case is presented of a young competitive body-builder who abused anabolic steroid drugs and developed profound symptomatic hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. With the help of prescribed testosterone (Sustanon ) he stopped taking anabolic drugs, and later stopped Sustanon also. Hypogonadism returned, but was successfully treated with weekly injections of human chorionic gonadotropin for three months. Testicular function remained normal thereafter on no treatment. The use of human chorionic gonadotropin should be considered in prolonged hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism due to anabolic steroid abuse.
PMID: 9538490 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Jul;25(1):109-12. Links
Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic gonadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes.

Serum concentrations of testosterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estradiol and several other unconjugated and sulphated steroids were analyzed before and after a single dose of hCG in 6 power athletes, who had used high doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids for 3 months. The study was carried out 3 weeks after cessation of drug use, but the study subjects were still characterized by hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. The mean concentrations of serum LH and FSH were 2.6 +/- 0.3 and 1.1 +/- 0.03 mIU/ml (mean +/- SEM), respectively, and the concentrations of several precursors and metabolites of testosterone were lower than those before drug use. In contrast, circulating concentrations of steroid sulphates were not decreased, with the exception of dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate. After hCG injection serum testosterone and 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone concentrations increased significantly, whereas no increases in estradiol and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations were observed. These results demonstrate that during transient hypogonadotrophism in adult men, the testicular responsiveness to a single injection of hCG is similar to that in prepubertal boys without any sign of steroidogenic lesion at the 17,20-desmolase step. Therefore, the appearance of the possibly estradiol-mediated inhibition at the level of C21-steroid side-chain splitting in testosterone biosynthesis seems to be dependent on priming by gonadotrophins.
PMID: 3747510 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I just wanted to make sure everyone was clear on this.. I was just speaking to Hooker and he still suggest using hcg , aromasin and nolva.. Hcg can be suppressive via 17 ohp . Hookers says HCG is better with nolva...