My PCT layout

[mike198]

Entering week 12 of first cycle. 34 years old, ran test cyp anywhere from 250-300 mgs/week. HcG was used entire cycle along with adex

This last week I want to take 200 mgs. My idea with that is to taper down and thus allow myself to start PCT sooner, since after 7 days I should have about 100 mgs in my system and can thus start PCT since my exogenous test will be below supraphysiological levels.

About 3 days after my last pin of 100 mgs test I will blast Hcg at 500 IU's EOD until about 12 days after last pin and then start my SERMs. Sound like a good plan?

[numbere]

I agree with the theory that amount of compound should be taken into account when considering PCT. However, I don't like the idea of tapering doses because it overly complicates things for no real benefit. There are many factors that effect the pharmacokinetics of a compound which you are not considering. To say you will have 100 mg in your system is no better than an educated guess. There are many more factors besides half life and active life that affect the pharmacokinetics of a compound. A study conducted on hypogonadal men receiving 200 mg/week IM of test c showed steroid levels reduced to basal amounts by 13-14 days.

I think you should continue taking the same dose of test for the remainder of your cycle. Also, keep taking 250 IUs of hcg twice a week until 3 days before PCT and your AI right up to PCT. You might consider decreasing the frequency of the AI dose a week or so after your last pin of test. Then 18 days after your last pin begin a nova and clomid PCT.

[mike198]

I agree with the theory that amount of compound should be taken into account when considering PCT. However, I don't like the idea of tapering doses because it overly complicates things for no real benefit. There are many factors that effect the pharmacokinetics of a compound which you are not considering. To say you will have 100 mg in your system is no better than an educated guess. There are many more factors besides half life and active life that affect the pharmacokinetics of a compound. A study conducted on hypogonadal men receiving 200 mg/week IM of test c showed steroid levels reduced to basal amounts by 13-14 days. I think you should continue taking the same dose of test for the remainder of your cycle. Also, keep taking 250 IUs of hcg twice a week until 3 days before PCT and your AI right up to PCT. You might consider decreasing the frequency of the AI dose a week or so after your last pin of test. Then 18 days after your last pin begin a nova and clomid PCT.

Do you subscribe to the theory that SERM therapy should begin when exogenous test levels fall to ~150? I've read cyp having a half life as short as four days to as long as 8 days. I'm going to assume it has a half life of 6 days in this case. Also, no penalty for starting PCT too soon, correct? I would rather start too soon than to start when my TT is tanked

[Bio-Active]

Do you subscribe to the theory that SERM therapy should begin when exogenous test levels fall to ~150? I've read cyp having a half life as short as four days to as long as 8 days. I'm going to assume it has a half life of 6 days in this case. Also, no penalty for starting PCT too soon, correct? I would rather start too soon than to start when my TT is tanked

there's no penalty to starting pct but no benefit. I would start your Pct 14 days from last pin of test

[numbere]

Do you subscribe to the theory that SERM therapy should begin when exogenous test levels fall to ~150? I've read cyp having a half life as short as four days to as long as 8 days. I'm going to assume it has a half life of 6 days in this case. Also, no penalty for starting PCT too soon, correct? I would rather start too soon than to start when my TT is tanked

Ideally I like to begin PCT right before exogenous test reaches basal levels. You're an adult and should do whatever you feel is best.

[mike198]

there's no penalty to starting pct but no benefit. I would start your Pct 14 days from last pin of test

Must there be no trace of exogenous test in my system to begin SERM? It seems rather cookie cutter to me to say 14 or 18 days is the right time to start. What about a guy that's running a gram of test per week? Would he start 14-18 days after last pin? He would surely have much more active compound in his system than I would

[numbere]

Must there be no trace of exogenous test in my system to begin SERM? It seems rather cookie cutter to me to say 14 or 18 days is the right time to start. What about a guy that's running a gram of test per week? Would he start 14-18 days after last pin? He would surely have much more active compound in his system than I would

A SERM won't have much effect with exogenous test in your system. Like I said there was a study on men receiving 200 mg/week of test c IM. All the subjects plasma levels reduced were reduced to basal by 13-14 days.

[mike198]

Ideally I like to begin PCT right before exogenous test reaches basal levels. You're an adult and should do whatever you feel is best.

That's exactly what I was thinking: start the SERMs when the exogenous test falls below supraphysiological levels. I realize there's no concrete way to pin point that moment, but utilizing half lives and dosage amounts, I'm thinking to begin nolva and clomid 7 days after last pin. Exogenous test levels should be ~150. I would like to do a five week PCT as well to make up for any error time in starting too soon.

I'm thinking clomid 100/100/50/50/50 along with nolva 40/40/20/20/10/10 (may run nolva an extra week)

[numbere]

You can do whatever you like but 7 days after last pin is way too soon. Also, that PCT is very excessive. I don't understand why you're asking for advise if you want to follow your own path.

[mike198]

You can do whatever you like but 7 days after last pin is way too soon. Also, that PCT is very excessive. I don't understand why you're asking for advise if you want to follow your own path.

Just trying to educate myself. It's my first cycle and first PCT, so I'm trying to be informed is all brother. But yes, I am going to go with my instincts.

When would you advise someone to begin SERMs if he's running a gram of test per week? Just curious

[numbere]

Speaking in hypotheticals is impossible with this subject because of the human element. Probably 18 days but the PCT would be more extensive

[mike198]

You can do whatever you like but 7 days after last pin is way too soon. Also, that PCT is very excessive. I don't understand why you're asking for advise if you want to follow your own path.

You're right about it being excessive. I think I'm being overly cautious with PCT. Just want to hold on to them gains!

Anyways, I have clomid and nolvadex ready to go. I think I could probably just go with the clomid at 100/100/50/50. I read nolvadex works synergistically with clomid, but I also read nolva lowers igf-1

[Bio-Active]

You're right about it being excessive. I think I'm being overly cautious with PCT. Just want to hold on to them gains! Anyways, I have clomid and nolvadex ready to go. I think I could probably just go with the clomid at 100/100/50/50. I read nolvadex works synergistically with clomid, but I also read nolva lowers igf-1

Clomid 100/50/50/50 nolvadex 40/40/20/20. Keep in mind the only way to know for sure is running labs and experience. I can tell you this. 14 days from my last pin of test cyp my levels drop below 200 ng/dl

[mike198]

Clomid 100/50/50/50 nolvadex 40/40/20/20. Keep in mind the only way to know for sure is running labs and experience. I can tell you this. 14 days from my last pin of test cyp my levels drop below 200 ng/dl

Then do you start SERMs sooner than 14 days?

Shouldn't one start PCT before serum T drops too low?

[mike198]

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Anyways, last couple of days I've been feeling off: anxious, spacey, irritable, no morning wood. Very reminiscent of the early portion of my cycle when my e2 got high. So I took 0.25 mg Adex yesterday and had solid wood this morning. I took another 0.25 mg today as well. Any thoughts on how I should dose the Adex during the remainder of pct? Several people told me to keep taking my adex, but I didn't listen. Lesson learned

[numbere]

Anyways, last couple of days I've been feeling off: anxious, spacey, irritable, no morning wood. Very reminiscent of the early portion of my cycle when my e2 got high. So I took 0.25 mg Adex yesterday and had solid wood this morning. I took another 0.25 mg today as well. Any thoughts on how I should dose the Adex during the remainder of pct? Several people told me to keep taking my adex, but I didn't listen. Lesson learned

[mike198]

Judging your e2 by whether you have morning wood is a treeable idea. If you want an accurate depiction of your e2 then have BW. Feeling off and ed happens when androgens levels are low. If you want wood then take some cia. Continuing to take dex during PCT is a great way to crash your e2. Stick with just nolva and clomid.

I have Viagra on hand

Is is possible estrogen rebound is occurring or is that only experienced upon cessation of PCT?

[numbere]

I have Viagra on hand

Is is possible estrogen rebound is occurring or is that only experienced upon cessation of PCT?

[mike198]

You are only guessing about TT without BW. Sure, anything is possible, but I don't think you would experience high e2 sides while taking SERMS during PCT. Going back to your original post from today. You shouldn't be changing the ratio of your macros during PCT. Just increase the amount you are eating.

I thought it was advised to increase dietary fat post cycle and beyond since it can elevate T, especially saturated fats

[numbere]

I thought it was advised to increase dietary fat post cycle and beyond since it can elevate T, especially saturated fats

Yes that's true, and increasing dietary fat is exactly what happens when you increase net calories.

All you really need to to is decrease your training time by about 15-20 minutes and add another meal into your diet.

If you want to change your macros and it works for you then cool. IMO during PCT is not the best time to experiment with cutting carbs.

Good Fats, Bad Fats, and the Power of Omega-3s

[mike198]

Yes that's true, and increasing dietary fat is exactly what happens when you increase net calories. All you really need to to is decrease your training time by about 15-20 minutes and add another meal into your diet. If you want to change your macros and it works for you then cool. IMO during PCT is not the best time to experiment with cutting carbs. Good Fats, Bad Fats, and the Power of Omega-3s

I'm keeping training sessions to 60 min max. I train 5/3/1, so it's easy to adhere to the ceiling I've given myself as he has a variety of templates that suit this need. I'm also deloading every 4th week now instead of every seventh.

You're right about PCT not being the time to experiment. I'm consuming coconut oil, fish oil, almond butter and a few whole eggs a day. Trying to get ~85 g fat

[mike198]

Took my last clomid and Nolva dose today. Getting bloods done in 8 weeks. Starting forskoliin 95 tomorrow. Any suggestions on what I can use while natty the next 4 months besides the basics? Anybody have experience with l -dopa?