HELP: under-dosed pct meds (sides)

**chopsui** · 12-01-2016, 01:10 PM

so after my first cycle i did gain a lot of fat on my belly and chest but not anywhere else on my body.

It was very rapid i was in great shape extended my cycle to 16 weeks waiting for pct meds but i'm guessing they were under dosed because i felt then but they barely seemed to work i seem to have a lot of estrogen related side effects.

how can i correct this problem it's really mainly my me depressed. ive been dieting but this fat is much harder to lose. I was thinking another test cycle with less test maybe 250 cyp and winstrol .

I do t want to resort to surgery but i'll do it if i have to. I went from the best shape of my life to the worst in 4 weeks. Desperate. Help.

**Couchlock** · 12-01-2016, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by chopsui

so after my first cycle i did gain a lot of fat on my belly and chest but not anywhere else on my body.

It was very rapid i was in great shape extended my cycle to 16 weeks waiting for pct meds but i'm guessing they were under dosed because i felt then but they barely seemed to work i seem to have a lot of estrogen related side effects.

how can i correct this problem it's really mainly my me depressed. ive been dieting but this fat is much harder to lose. I was thinking another test cycle with less test maybe 250 cyp and winstrol .

I do t want to resort to surgery but i'll do it if i have to. I went from the best shape of my life to the worst in 4 weeks. Desperate. Help.

Just block out the mental shit.

Work take it slow.

Won't go away in 2 days.

**chopsui** · 12-02-2016, 11:14 AM

I'm trying dude but it's like my body refuses to lose this fat! I've been dieting fo 2-3 months exercising counting calories... it just seems like my body functions like shit since I came off the gear. (4-5mknths ago)... at the end of the cycle my estrogen was 37 normal = 25. I suddenly rapidly gained fat around weeks 12-16 i think it's estro related fat.

Here's my question what's the best method to take care of this? Just keep trying to lose fat?

**chopsui** · 12-02-2016, 11:16 AM

clarification my e2 was 37, with 25 being normal so I started nolva week 12-16 while still on cycle in hopes to block e2 from binding.
Can someone clarify what I did to myself? More/Most importantly, How to reverse the damage?

**Back In Black** · 12-02-2016, 11:57 AM

Get some bloodwork, without it we are guessing.what was the PCT you ran?

**chopsui** · 12-16-2016, 01:55 PM

i ran the standard pct cycle of nolva and clid at recommended doses. I just didn't run an AI when i got my blood work that showed e2 at 35 i started taking nolva early to block estro from binding but either it didn't work or this ain't from that.

do you guys want me to get a full blood panel? i'm off now. i think my pct meds were from a bad source that under dosed them.

bump for advice i could really use some.

**chopsui** · 12-16-2016, 01:56 PM

should i post pics? really need help here guys it's affecting every aspect of my life. need to fix this.

**numbere** · 12-16-2016, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by chopsui

i ran the standard pct cycle of nolva and clid at recommended doses. I just didn't run an AI when i got my blood work that showed e2 at 35 i started taking nolva early to block estro from binding but either it didn't work or this ain't from that.

do you guys want me to get a full blood panel? i'm off now. i think my pct meds were from a bad source that under dosed them.

bump for advice i could really use some.

Having e2 of 35 is fine even with a sensitive estradiol assay.

Imo wait until about 8 weeks after stopping SERM therapy then pull a hormone panel that includes lh, fsh and TT.

Until then keep eating healthy, lifting hard an stay positive.

In your OP you mentioned issues common with elevated e2.

On a good note, if your e2 was elevated then your SERMs were likely working to boost your natural test production.

**chopsui** · 01-15-2017, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

Having e2 of 35 is fine even with a sensitive estradiol assay.

Imo wait until about 8 weeks after stopping SERM therapy then pull a hormone panel that includes lh, fsh and TT.

Until then keep eating healthy, lifting hard an stay positive.

In your OP you mentioned issues common with elevated e2.

On a good note, if your e2 was elevated then your SERMs were likely working to boost your natural test production.

It's been 6 months and i've been focusing on fat loss, i can get a full blood panel and post if you could please help me out.

It's just this fat i gained on my chest and belly isn't melting off... i've never gained fat to my chest before only my belly. With diet and exercise even I just feel like something's off... I hate to see myself with chest fat i've never had my body type changed from skinny to skinny fat i can't lose this extra fat!

Is there a sunstroke cycle i can run or something? Do i need surgery? I would freaky appreciate any help...

I was on the track to becoming the man I always knew i could be and this has REALlY jacked up my self image and life.... i'll do any blood work etc that you guys need.

**chopsui** · 01-15-2017, 06:13 PM

winstrol cycle not sunstroke ***

**Couchlock** · 01-15-2017, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by chopsui

winstrol cycle not sunstroke ***

So you happen to have any night eating or sleep related disorders.

Some people eat like crazy at night in their sleep, and so not even realize it, unless the next day, they see candy wrappers or something in the trash

**numbere** · 01-18-2017, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by chopsui

It's been 6 months and i've been focusing on fat loss, i can get a full blood panel and post if you could please help me out.

It's just this fat i gained on my chest and belly isn't melting off... i've never gained fat to my chest before only my belly. With diet and exercise even I just feel like something's off... I hate to see myself with chest fat i've never had my body type changed from skinny to skinny fat i can't lose this extra fat!

Is there a sunstroke cycle i can run or something? Do i need surgery? I would freaky appreciate any help...

I was on the track to becoming the man I always knew i could be and this has REALlY jacked up my self image and life.... i'll do any blood work etc that you guys need.

If you pull a full hormone panel then post the results in the blood testing forum and members will help you better understand the results.

If you're not happy with your amount of body fat then the first step is changing your diet.

Yes, test and winny will raise your BMR helping slightly with fat loss.

However, if your diet isn't spot on it will be a waste of time because you won't lose any weight or you'll put everything you did lose back on after the cycle.

You would likely benefit from creating a thread in the diet and nutrition forum.

**chopsui** · 01-18-2017, 01:52 PM

I was doing that for a while is that an estrogen side or something? I would always remember haven't done it lately.

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

So you happen to have any night eating or sleep related disorders.

Some people eat like crazy at night in their sleep, and so not even realize it, unless the next day, they see candy wrappers or something in the trash

**chopsui** · 01-18-2017, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

If you pull a full hormone panel then post the results in the blood testing forum and members will help you better understand the results.

If you're not happy with your amount of body fat then the first step is changing your diet.

Yes, test and winny will raise your BMR helping slightly with fat loss.

However, if your diet isn't spot on it will be a waste of time because you won't lose any weight or you'll put everything you did lose back on after the cycle.

You would likely benefit from creating a thread in the diet and nutrition forum.

Originally Posted by numbere

If you pull a full hormone panel then post the results in the blood testing forum and members will help you better understand the results.

If you're not happy with your amount of body fat then the first step is changing your diet.

Yes, test and winny will raise your BMR helping slightly with fat loss.

However, if your diet isn't spot on it will be a waste of time because you won't lose any weight or you'll put everything you did lose back on after the cycle.

You would likely benefit from creating a thread in the diet and nutrition forum.

Thanks for your advice i'll definitely follow through with making those threads,

I guess my issue isn't fat loss I can lose fat just fine, but I feel i've gained "hormonal fat" from high e2 that's "more difficult to lose". I've lost fat in other areas but there's a dis-proportionate amount of this new hormonal fat I am skinny in some areas but still have this chest fat that I never had before the cycle... even when I lose fat this doesn't really change that much. I can't imagine it just disappearing from diet and exercise..

. can I correct this without surgery just using hormones and exercise and diet? If someone knows someone who went through something similar i would really appreciate some advice on this...

Won't winniy liquify my fat? my diet is super clean i've never had a problem eating whatever i want and not gaining but now i eat super clean and still can't lose this hormonal fat"

**chopsui** · 01-18-2017, 02:00 PM

There was another thread i read where this guy spot treated estrogen related fat deposits successfully does anyone know about this??

estrogen related fat-deposits

"Studies in women show increased adiposity with nolva (post menapausal)- which is going to be most similar to men."

so nolva can cause increased fat gain? FML

**Couchlock** · 01-18-2017, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by chopsui

I was doing that for a while is that an estrogen side or something? I would always remember haven't done it lately.

Its a depression stress, cortisol,melatonin related disorder called"NES"

**chopsui** · 01-18-2017, 02:27 PM

i'm sure my cortisol is up this has been stressing me to the max, So i was reading about breast tissue reduction and found this: Seems the only way out is another cycle with my levels in check for a long period?

Breast Size Reduction

As mentioned above under the gynecomastia side effect for males, androgens in the human body actually work to inhibit breast tissue growth24, and in females in particular, the use of anabolic steroids has been demonstrated to cause a shrinkage in breast tissue size in female-to-male transgender patients administered Testosterone in long-term duration of use[31]. Unlike various other female-specific androgenic side effects associated with anabolic steroid use , breast size reduction can remain following the termination of anabolic steroid use. This is because in an androgen-rich environment, the development of breast tissue reconstruction is very prominent. Once again, this is a side effect that is highly dependent on the type of anabolic steroid used, the dose, and duration of use.

**Couchlock** · 01-18-2017, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by chopsui

i'm sure my cortisol is up this has been stressing me to the max, So i was reading about breast tissue reduction and found this: Seems the only way out is another cycle with my levels in check for a long period?

Breast Size Reduction

As mentioned above under the gynecomastia side effect for males, androgens in the human body actually work to inhibit breast tissue growth24, and in females in particular, the use of anabolic steroids has been demonstrated to cause a shrinkage in breast tissue size in female-to-male transgender patients administered Testosterone in long-term duration of use[31]. Unlike various other female-specific androgenic side effects associated with anabolic steroid use, breast size reduction can remain following the termination of anabolic steroid use. This is because in an androgen-rich environment, the development of breast tissue reconstruction is very prominent. Once again, this is a side effect that is highly dependent on the type of anabolic steroid used, the dose, and duration of use.

Cortisol destroys the hormones that tell your mind your full.

Cortisol can cause sleep insomnia

**numbere** · 01-18-2017, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by chopsui

Thanks for your advice i'll definitely follow through with making those threads,

I guess my issue isn't fat loss I can lose fat just fine, but I feel i've gained "hormonal fat" from high e2 that's "more difficult to lose". I've lost fat in other areas but there's a dis-proportionate amount of this new hormonal fat I am skinny in some areas but still have this chest fat that I never had before the cycle... even when I lose fat this doesn't really change that much. I can't imagine it just disappearing from diet and exercise..

. can I correct this without surgery just using hormones and exercise and diet? If someone knows someone who went through something similar i would really appreciate some advice on this...

Won't winniy liquify my fat? my diet is super clean i've never had a problem eating whatever i want and not gaining but now i eat super clean and still can't lose this hormonal fat"

Dude fat is fat.

You had an e2 level of 35 that's not elevated.

Saying that your current physique is a result of hormones is a complete guess without blood work.

No, winny will not liquify your fat.

Barring a thyroid issue, you need to learn how to diet and train for weight loss.

**chopsui** · 01-19-2017, 01:18 PM

I wish this was the case believe me but why do.i see pictures of guys with. ripped six pack and puffy, fatty chest?

i'm going to diet and train for weightloss further and see but in the mean time but I'm just trying to figure everything out...

35 is in the high range for estradiol, i'm just worried i exposed my body to too much estrogen via aromatization or bad reaction to test, I had wicked acne on cycle too.

Originally Posted by numbere

Dude fat is fat.

You had an e2 level of 35 that's not elevated.

Saying that your current physique is a result of hormones is a complete guess without blood work.

No, winny will not liquify your fat.

Barring a thyroid issue, you need to learn how to diet and train for weight loss.

**chopsui** · 01-19-2017, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

Cortisol destroys the hormones that tell your mind your full.

Cortisol can cause sleep insomnia

What's the best way to reduce cortisol? Is it possible i permanently increased my cortisol via hormones or am I just stressed as fuck and need to meditate more? I just want to get back to being the man I'm used to being.

**numbere** · 01-19-2017, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by chopsui

I wish this was the case believe me but why do.i see pictures of guys with. ripped six pack and puffy, fatty chest?

i'm going to diet and train for weightloss further and see but in the mean time but I'm just trying to figure everything out...

35 is in the high range for estradiol, i'm just worried i exposed my body to too much estrogen via aromatization or bad reaction to test, I had wicked acne on cycle too.

Alright well it looks like you have all the answers.

I was here to try and help not play games.

Good luck with everything.

**Couchlock** · 01-19-2017, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by chopsui

What's the best way to reduce cortisol? Is it possible i permanently increased my cortisol via hormones or am I just stressed as fuck and need to meditate more? I just want to get back to being the man I'm used to being.

There are supplements, Google it, that's what I do.

I would change your lifestyle, if you work,i on unemployment,

If you have kids, send them away or give to foster care.

Etc. Lol jk

Reducing stress is what's needed. Don't stress too much about reducing stress. Its a cycle