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  1. #1
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    First PCT after B&C NO Libido for 40+ Guy

    I self-HRT'ed myself for almost two years with the occasional blast. My last big blast sent my e2 way out of control (>4000). I was my strongest ever, but I had a lot bad estrogen sides of course: depression, wonky libido, water retention, high blood pressure. Nuts shrank to little numbs.

    I went crazy with my Aromasin till I ran out. I waited three weeks after my last Test E pin and then started on Clomid at 150 mg for five days and now on 100 mg for the next 10 days and then 50 mg for the ten after that.

    Libido is absolutely gone now, though I'm still getting MW while my boys are plumping back up. I really wanted to give my body a break by restarting my HPTA with Clomid, but I read lots of different opinions on Clomid dose and its often negative effects on libido because it acts like estrogen in the brain.

    My strength is still really good five weeks out from my last pin. But the libido part is really frustrating me. What should I change? Thanks in advance.

    Also, while I want to stay nattie for now, I am willing to hop back on self-TRT with test, hCG , and an AI. I will never blast high again. I am willing to add Proviron for the libido benefits, too.
    Last edited by ThisIsVoluntary; 12-05-2017 at 08:55 PM.

  2. #2
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Do you need TRT?
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  3. #3
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    I don't know. But I want it. I am a competitive lifter and my lifting numbers went into a tailspin after I turned 35 years old. After I turned 40 I started playing around with SARMs and then with real test and then with additional stuff. All my lifts went higher than I ever thought possible, like 100-150 lbs over my lifetime bests on the big lifts. And I
    looked like a superhero. My TT numbers were around 450 after the SARMs right when I turned 40. I started self-HRT after that.
    Last edited by ThisIsVoluntary; 12-05-2017 at 09:41 PM.

  4. #4
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Ok, re your pct it's subjective but a basic layout would be as follows:

    Clomid - 100/50/50/50 (take at bedtime)
    Nolva - 40/20/20/20

    Above is per day, per week.

    Naturally hcg would have been optimal during the cycle to maintain testicular function and make pct more effective. If you don't have nolva then I'd extend the clomid another couple weeks. Post pct obtain BW after about 6-8 weeks. You need to wait to allow hyperstimulation from the serm to cease and for your body to find homeostasis. Then you will see what your accurate levels are and can plan accordingly.

    Be sure to obtain BW that at a minimum contains the following:

    LH/FSH (imperative to show pituitary function)
    Total T
    Free T
    CBC
    CMP
    E2 Sensitive
    Cholesterol Panel
    TSH, FT3, FT4
    etc.
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  5. #5
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Ok, re your pct it's subjective but a basic layout would be as follows:

    Clomid - 100/50/50/50 (take at bedtime)
    Nolva - 40/20/20/20

    Above is per day, per week.

    Naturally hcg would have been optimal during the cycle to maintain testicular function and make pct more effective. If you don't have nolva then I'd extend the clomid another couple weeks. Post pct obtain BW after about 6-8 weeks. You need to wait to allow hyperstimulation from the serm to cease and for your body to find homeostasis. Then you will see what your accurate levels are and can plan accordingly.

    Be sure to obtain BW that at a minimum contains the following:

    LH/FSH (imperative to show pituitary function)
    Total T
    Free T
    CBC
    CMP
    E2 Sensitive
    Cholesterol Panel
    TSH, FT3, FT4
    etc.
    Thank you much, sir.

    I used to use HCG, but domestic HCG has dried up: another reason to go to a clinic next time if necessary. I would love to continue using hCG.

  6. #6
    Obspowerstroke's Avatar
    Obspowerstroke is online now "Convert Emotion to Willpower"
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Ok, re your pct it's subjective but a basic layout would be as follows:

    Clomid - 100/50/50/50 (take at bedtime)
    Nolva - 40/20/20/20

    Above is per day, per week.

    Naturally hcg would have been optimal during the cycle to maintain testicular function and make pct more effective. If you don't have nolva then I'd extend the clomid another couple weeks. Post pct obtain BW after about 6-8 weeks. You need to wait to allow hyperstimulation from the serm to cease and for your body to find homeostasis. Then you will see what your accurate levels are and can plan accordingly.

    Be sure to obtain BW that at a minimum contains the following:

    LH/FSH (imperative to show pituitary function)
    Total T
    Free T
    CBC
    CMP
    E2 Sensitive
    Cholesterol Panel
    TSH, FT3, FT4
    etc.
    Kel, you are a fucking awesome anomaly for newbs. My gf doesn't know much about what I do on here but she knows kel. I appreciate you ya veiny Irish fff....eller

  7. #7
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    So I guess I have to wait till the Clomid clears my system before my libido resurfaces? I read that the half life of the oestrogenic zuclomiphene portion of the drug has a half life of weeks. I see reports of libido taking a couple months to recover after the cessation of Clomid dosing.

  8. #8
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Yes. Your libido issue may be estrogen related as clomid will naturally elevate E2 levels. High E2 (or to low) can be a libido killer and you seem to have experienced both with your aromasin use, etc. Basically your hormones are in flux and need time to settle down. Don't do anything drastic just ride this out and you'll return to normal in time. Add in Cialis / Viagra as needed.
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  9. #9
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Yes. Your libido issue may be estrogen related as clomid will naturally elevate E2 levels. High E2 (or to low) can be a libido killer and you seem to have experienced both with your aromasin use, etc. Basically your hormones are in flux and need time to settle down. Don't do anything drastic just ride this out and you'll return to normal in time. Add in Cialis / Viagra as needed.
    Actually, I had a whole bottle of Pramipexole on hand for my Tren use. I took 0.25 mg and within a couple of hours I was thinking randy thoughts. Of course, I woke up with severe nausea...which is why I hold off on taking the Prami even when I know I need to combat prolactin. Yay, dopamine agonists.

  10. #10
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisIsVoluntary View Post
    Actually, I had a whole bottle of Pramipexole on hand for my Tren use. I took 0.25 mg and within a couple of hours I was thinking randy thoughts. Of course, I woke up with severe nausea...which is why I hold off on taking the Prami even when I know I need to combat prolactin. Yay, dopamine agonists.
    On another note if your previous extremely high estrogen reading was when you were on tren you should know that trens metabolites can/will skew the test and give false elevated readings. Similar to what deca can do to total testosterone levels when tested.
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  11. #11
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    On another note if your previous extremely high estrogen reading was when you were on tren you should know that trens metabolites can/will skew the test and give false elevated readings. Similar to what deca can do to total testosterone levels when tested.
    Wow, you are really a treasure! Thanks. I didn't know that. I will get a full test in 12 weeks at which point I'll have finished the six-week PCT (I don't have any Nolva on hand so am doing six weeks of Clomid) and have had a chance for my system to settle down.

  12. #12
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Remember, ancillaries such as Clomid and Nolva can be found on various peptide warehouse web sites in liquid form and work just fine.
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  13. #13
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    Okay, I'll take a look.

    What about Proviron for libido? I've read different things on how much it suppresses the HPTA. Not something one would add in PCT..?

  14. #14
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Negative for Proviron . You don't want anything suppressive during pct. Cialis is great stuff. Low dose @ 5-10 mgs daily is an extremely healthy thing for a male to take year round.
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  15. #15
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    Cool. But my understanding is Cialis (along with Viagra) only helps erectile function and does nothing for libido. Did I miss something? (And thank you for your prompt and considerate replies.)

  16. #16
    kelkel's Avatar
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    That is correct, it's not an aphrodisiac. That's where your imagination has to step up to the plate. That or give PT-141 a try. And if all the above faile look into Tri-Mix.
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  17. #17
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    That is correct, it's not an aphrodisiac. That's where your imagination has to step up to the plate. That or give PT-141 a try. And if all the above faile look into Tri-Mix.
    I tried PT-141 a while back, but I was also doing tren and that might have prevented me from reaping the benefits.

    On your advice I ordered some Cialis and some Nolva. I will look into a few more RCs, maybe get back into LGD or RAD again. Those were both like a nice, low dose of test in terms of strength and size gains.

    How would I dose the Nolva once it gets here? I was hoping to wrap up the SERM dosing within four weeks so I can have a shot at performing during a romantic New Year's getaway with my GF.

    Thanks again.

  18. #18
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Well, if you can get the Nolva in time you can run it at 40 for the first week and 20 after that. No issue running it for a couple more weeks post clomid. No one can guarantee your libido being 100% unfortunately.
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  19. #19
    ThisIsVoluntary is offline New Member
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    Yeah, I know the libido is a crap shoot at this point, at least in time for January lovin'.

    A little off topic, but I am losing a lot of weight while my strength continues to climb. I am handling personal record weights at 180 that I first made when I was blasting and weighing 195+.

    I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how I can be so much smaller and so deep into PCT while maintaining and improving my lifts. My squat is still way off, but I expect that after losing that much weight. My presses, rows, and pulls are all still climbing. I'm guessing that will wear off when I hop off the Clomid...?

  20. #20
    GearHeaded's Avatar
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    you could have just gotten more neurologically efficient at those lifts

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