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from what i understand proviron should not be ran during pct because it will hinder recovery of hpta...i was reading on another board and it was said that this isnt the case.. it will not hinder recovery...
does anyone have an article or study showing provirons positive or negative effect on recovery of hpta... any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
peace
I've always known it to shut down hpta and use nolv instead for pct.
same here, but these guys are telling me thats not the case...i personally have never used proviron just wanted something to back this up.Quote:
Originally Posted by TRE
I can read up on it from a couple books when I get home but Why run it thru pct anyways.
This has been an ongoing debate. I feel that it is best not to run Proviron during PCT but I don't have any definitive proof that says for sure it exerts enough of an effect to cause HPTA inhibition.
well, someone is running deca and having some problems.. he was told to run proviron straight through pct and a few other guys stated they also use proviron during pct. i said that it would hinder recovery, they said it doesnt... this is where it stands..lol
Well in this case if he is experiencing a post cycle crash it may not be a bad idea. It would be better if he ran his test a couple of weeks past his deca then used a more conventional PCT. Of course my guess is he isn't running test at all which is probably the problem. Either way I don't like seeing anyone suffer from low libido. He is going to have a long hard recovery probably no matter what he does now. He may want to run Proviron through two weeks of PCT and then run an additional two weeks without it.
Here's a couple studies stating that proviron will not shutdown HPTA:
Varma TR, Patel RH.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.
Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.
PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.
Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.
We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.
Very nice info MudMan!!!...that should put some conflicts to rest!
And I agree with Rickson completely!
These bro's aren't making any of this up...they are both very knowledgeable!
thanks alot guys.. much appreciated
btw..mudman.. this is the thread i was basing my opinion on....
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...t=proviron+pct
From those studdies I would say it isn't suppressive in PCT......... I know running Provirion alone will suppress natural production of test........ when you get shutdown you will not know it because proviron will still allow you to keep a health libido and to get errections but there are other sides that low or no test production will cause.
I will always go with the protocol that has worked for me....... Clomid / Nolva / L-dex / Tribbulus.......... The only way to realy say is if proviron will hinder recovery of HPTA is to try it and then have blood work done to see if your recovered.