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  1. #1
    Lozgod's Avatar
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    We Hit 900 Today

    For all of those that support the war in Iraq, we hit 900 American casualties. Now could you tell me exactly what has been accomplished by their deaths?

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    Oh yeah we over threw Saddam so Bush's contractor buddies could come in, but did we find the weapons of mass destruction that were gonna blow up the world at any minute which was the justification to start this war. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I forgot, there were none.

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    Loz,
    There are many recent threads on this argument, Check out the posts by MAXIMA. There is more to this than rich people getting richer and more meaning to this war than most people realize. MY 02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Loz,
    There are many recent threads on this argument, Check out the posts by MAXIMA. There is more to this than rich people getting richer and more meaning to this war than most people realize. MY 02.
    Well my whole answer to that is once we went in there and it was made public that no WMD were found new reasons were created.

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    WMDs were/ there , where are they now who knows? We went over there probably because we knew what Russia, Germany and France were doing, he was an easy target and we need a presence in the middle east to get those people out of the stone age. Clearly the Saudis aren't our true friends so we needed bases there just like we needed tham in Germany after WWII. Plus Hussein was a butcher. This war serves a larger more complex purpose than both of us could comment on. We are there because we need to be and we are the only ones with balls enough to get the job done. Soldiers die the militarty wasn't set up as a college funding institution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Plus Hussein was a butcher.
    Well look at the ethnic cleansing in Sudan. They have butchered over 30,000 people over there, but I guess it's not profitable enough to intervein.

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    Loz go preach that arguement to your beloved UN. Once again they set by and make resolutions and do nothing. If we were not engaged in the war in Iraq which is compeletly justified in my opnion we would be over in the Sudan. This world isnt only the USA's responsibility the rest of the world should step up and get there ass there. As victor said the military wasnt set up for college money thats what happens when you take the oath and they know that. Go ask the guys with there boots on the ground in Iraq they know why they are there and there moral is high.

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    I watched farenheit 911 last night and not really knowing that much about american politics i was astonished at some of the stuff i was hearing.

  9. #9
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    Don't believe everything you see and hear. Especially when it is produced by a person that despises America and republicans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    For all of those that support the war in Iraq, we hit 900 American casualties. Now could you tell me exactly what has been accomplished by their deaths?
    Please do not use the deaths of our dedicated solders to justify your left wing BULLCRAP. I find it offensive and ignorant. Have a little more respect for those who fought, fight, and defend.

    In spite of the buried centrifuges, banned missiles, mobile biological weapons labs, the testimonies of defectors and captured officials, captured documents and thousands of gassed Kurds and Iranians moldering in the grave there are still those who question whether Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction in the months and years leading up to the Coalition invasion and the inclination to use such weapons. I suspect that most are really asking whether the destruction of the Baath regime and the ousting of Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do.
    You ****ed skippy it was the right thing to do..

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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    Please do not use the deaths of our dedicated solders to justify your left wing BULLCRAP. I find it offensive and ignorant. Have a little more respect for those who fought, fight, and defend.
    Sorry that simply stating a fact makes you feel that way. I wonder if the children of those that died feel that way too? I do respect those that died, I dont respect those that sent them to die, but would never send their own children over there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    Sorry that simply stating a fact makes you feel that way. I wonder if the children of those that died feel that way too?
    Being a vetran of the US armed forces, I can assure that the children of those brave men and women are proud as can be of there parents service, and sacrifice. Although Im not sure you would understand this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    Being a vetran of the US armed forces, I can assure that the children of those brave men and women are proud as can be of there parents service, and sacrifice. Although Im not sure you would understand this.
    You are absolutely right, I would feel a whole lot different if I lost a loved one in Afghanastan than I would losing them in Iraq. They are selfless heros in both cases, but I would consider them murdered if it was in Iraq. Murdered for the financial advancement of those close to the Bush family. Fukk Bush and his daddy. Bush is a murderer, and the majority of this country knows that and it will show in November.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigrabbit
    Don't believe everything you see and hear. Especially when it is produced by a person that despises America and republicans.

    Yah, especially republicans . . .
    lol . . .
    -Tock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Yah, especially republicans . . .
    lol . . .
    -Tock
    Especially when they say we need to go to war because of an immenent threat from weapons of mass destruction. Never believe that when a Bush sais that.

  16. #16
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    It is great to fight for a reason. But when there is no apparent reason.... , as a soldier, we get sad and miss our families and we ask ourselves MY FRIEND JUST GOT KILLED FOR WHAT? We are proud as hell too. But sad as hell too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    You are absolutely right, I would feel a whole lot different if I lost a loved one in Afghanastan than I would losing them in Iraq. They are selfless heros in both cases, but I would consider them murdered if it was in Iraq. Murdered for the financial advancement of those close to the Bush family. Fukk Bush and his daddy. Bush is a murderer, and the majority of this country knows that and it will show in November.
    OK. So you believe that Bush started the war for personal gain. Well I am open mided, tell me where is the evidence, the inquries, the trial of treason, the outcry of democrats.
    You know what, I dont see any of it, why? because its fantacy used by left wing fanatics to spread anti Bush propoganda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sore24/7
    It is great to fight for a reason. But when there is no apparent reason.... , as a soldier, we get sad and miss our families and we ask ourselves MY FRIEND JUST GOT KILLED FOR WHAT? We are proud as hell too. But sad as hell too.
    Nice avatar, I would like to leave that sore 24/7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    OK. So you believe that Bush started the war for personal gain. Well I am open mided, tell me where is the evidence, the inquries, the trial of treason, the outcry of democrats.
    You know what, I dont see any of it, why? because its fantacy used by left wing fanatics to spread anti Bush propoganda.
    Just look at the contracts involved with rebuilding Iraq, and the Halibutrin deal, I mean are you in denial, or turning your head to the facts. Prove the justification for war. WE WENT IN THERE TO FIND AND DESTROY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION........THERE WERE NONE.........SO THEN THE MISSION IS CONVENIENTLY CHANGED...........am I making that up or is that statement true????????

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    Thanks for thought provoking thread Loz. I appreciate it bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    Murdered for the financial advancement of those close to the Bush family.
    Please explain this point. Also I am guessing you are up to date on the UN information (the transcripts I posted) on Saddams documented weapons arsenals, the extent to which he hid these weapons and the focus of his regime. Now Saddam never said what happened to those weapons arsenals so perhaps you can speak for the dictator and enlighten us.

    So you believe that Saddam extensivly hid his weapons programs from the international community, his weapons stock piles and programs were documented shortly after Gulf War I, Saddam through inspectors out of his country and stopped coperating, then you believe somthing magically happened to these weapon stock piles and they disappeared while the international community was not looking, but Saddam has another change of heart and starts his weapons programs back up and they were found and documented in 2003. Please explain this logic???

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    Hey.......... did you hear they found 3 nuke warheads buried in the ground north of bagdad today??
    The answer to your every question

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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard
    Hey.......... did you hear they found 3 nuke warheads buried in the ground north of bagdad today??
    If thats true, that would change my entire opinion on this whole thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    Just look at the contracts involved with rebuilding Iraq, and the Halibutrin deal, I mean are you in denial, or turning your head to the facts. Prove the justification for war. WE WENT IN THERE TO FIND AND DESTROY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION........THERE WERE NONE.........SO THEN THE MISSION IS CONVENIENTLY CHANGED...........am I making that up or is that statement true????????
    What's the point of posting if no one reads it, here it is again

    Quote from Steven Kelman who was an administrator in the Office of Federal Procurement Policy under Bill Clinton and now is a professor of public management at Harvard. This is in regards to federal contracts being awarded to friends.

    "One would be hard-pressed to discover anyone with a working knowledge of how federal contracts are awarded — whether a career civil servant working on procurement or an independent academic expert — who doesn't regard these allegations as being somewhere between highly improbable and utterly absurd," The Washington Post November 03

    The federal procurement system is a highly structured process which is insulated from political pressures. The idea that one of Bush's political appointees can persuade a large group of civil servants to risk their careers by giving business to a contributing company is a fantasy.

    The Halliburton subsidiary, Kellogg, Brown & Root, won an open competition to provide the service support for overseas troops. This contract is called the Logcap, and is awarded every few years. They won the competition in 1992. It lost to DynCorp in 1997, and won it again in 2001.

    During the Clinton administration, the Pentagon issued a temporary no-bid contract to KBR to continue its work in the Balkans. In the months leading up to the Iraq war, Defense officials realized they needed plans in case Saddam Hussein once again set his oil wells ablaze. KBR did the study under Logcap. Then in February, with the war looming, Pentagon planners issued an additional bridge contract to KBR to put out any fires that were set. KBR had the experience. Its personnel were in place. It would have been crazy to open up a three-to-five-month bidding process at that time.


    This was the justification for going to war, Resolution 1441

    http://www.dalebroux.com/assemblage/...lution1441.asp

    It is a summary of every resolution Saddam has broken and it needs to be fixed. The resolution stated harsh consequences if Saddam did not comply, it is clear that Saddam again did not comply with one part of that resolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard
    Hey.......... did you hear they found 3 nuke warheads buried in the ground north of bagdad today??
    That was said by an Iraqi prisoner who was a high up of the Bathist party. He said the warheads were barried deap underneath concrete to prevent their detection. So far the Army has not confirmed the report, who knows if it is a trap or not but I suspect the claim to be false.

    What is being investigated are the number of people coming forward claiming that weapons were transported to Syria shortly before the war broke out.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=39182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    If thats true, that would change my entire opinion on this whole thing.
    not me......... i support the war........... and hate it at the same time....

    they are sending a team to inspect.. it was on the AP wire..
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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard
    not me......... i support the war........... and hate it at the same time....

    they are sending a team to inspect.. it was on the AP wire..
    I got at least one person I know thats over there, she is doing the mail, but still she is there. I am not a tree hugging hippie, I just hate that people have to lose their lives for something that may be a lie, however if that post is true then I would agree with we need to be there because that would make Saddam a credible threat then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    I got at least one person I know thats over there, she is doing the mail, but still she is there. I am not a tree hugging hippie, I just hate that people have to lose their lives for something that may be a lie, however if that post is true then I would agree with we need to be there because that would make Saddam a credible threat then.
    I lost my brother in law in Iraq...

    1 good friend is there now.. with an agency

    and 2 more troops are shipping out soon........

    so I believe in the war.. the effective pre-emptive elimination of danger.. after 9/11.......... someone had to be targeted... if nothing else than focus the revenge of the American people...
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  29. #29
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    Thats bull**** im clearly against iraq why send my brother
    are dad to die over some oil.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by builtthekid
    Thats bull**** im clearly against iraq why send my brother
    are dad to die over some oil.

    Christ, is this a weak post. Just based on the info on this thread you should be able to provide more sound reasoning for being against the war.

    Maxima, thanks for providing the facts, even if so many members/americans refuse to believe them because they saw F911.

    Loz, did you know that we have confirmed that Saddam was trying to obtain yellow cake uranium? Guess what is used to make nukes!!! Yep, you guessed it. No matter what anyone says in opposition to Bush's choice to go to war, more evidence pointed towards Saddam being a threat than against. Also, we did not go to war to find WMD, we went because of their threat and to remove a dangerous dictator.

  31. #31
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    how can you eliminate a threat if it doesn't actually exist and you can't find it anyway to knock it out?

    also its somewhat patronising to assume that opposition to the war is mostly due to a film.

    the desire to remove a dangerous dictator was never pushed as being the reason for invading iraq and flouting the Geneva convention. however compelling our leaders may wish that idea to seem in hindsight, the overwhelming tone was:

    Speech to the UN in 2002:
    BUSH: " Saddam Hussein.....continues to develop weapons of mass destruction. The first time we may be completely certain he has nuclear weapons is when, God forbid, he uses one

    which then morphed into:

    BUSH " He has weapons of mass destruction-the worlds deadliest weapons-which pose a direct threat to the United States, our citizens and our friends and allies"

    "we have confirmed that Saddam was trying to obtain yellow cake uranium"

    and who is 'we' is that the royal 'we' lol

    900 americans, nay one american is *too high a price to pay* for the vanities of a president who in 1997 (when Govenor of Texas) invited the Taliban to Texas :

    Thursday, December 4, 1997 Published at 19:27 GMT on BBC WORLD

    Taleban in Texas for Pipeline Talks

    A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in the United States for talks with an international energy company that wants to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan.

    A spokesman for the company, Unocal, said the Taleban were expected to spend several days at the company's headquarters in Sugarland, Texas.

    Yes i can see the Bush concern for oppressive regimes and despotic nutters has its genesis right here, back when he was still trying to milk them.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by builtthekid
    Thats bull**** im clearly against iraq why send my brother
    are dad to die over some oil.
    Sorry bro, but this is weak. I love how people keep spouting off how we went to war for the oil. If this is the case, why is gas still a lot higher than it was before the war? If we went to war for cheap oil prices, why has the subsequent price drop never occured?

  33. #33
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    "Thursday, December 4, 1997 Published at 19:27 GMT on BBC WORLD

    Taleban in Texas for Pipeline Talks

    A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in the United States for talks with an international energy company that wants to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan."

    Skinjob Ya something happend to our thinking when 2 planes were crashed into 2 extremly large buildings on sept 11...

    The WMD's are there people, If not in Iraq they are in Syria. Even if they are not put yourself in the CIA's postition every General that defected said well my troops had no Biological weapons but the troops of another General had them. These are human intelligence sources giving you this information before the war began. There were many defecters that gave the same information about WMD's. What was the CIA supposed to do not take them as crediable sources. Both the democrates and republicans had the same information before the war began. The same exact intel breifings and they BOTH came to the conclusion to go to war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by apocolypse
    Sorry bro, but this is weak. I love how people keep spouting off how we went to war for the oil. If this is the case, why is gas still a lot higher than it was before the war? If we went to war for cheap oil prices, why has the subsequent price drop never occured?

    OPEC controls oil and the price of crude. Oil is traded on a world wide market, the more oil, the lower the prices. If Saddam had been sitting on a huge reserve and refused to sell there would be less total oil on the market making it more expensive. The conspiracy theorists would have a leg to stand on if this was the case and the US had gone to war to put this oil supply on the market and drive the price of oil down.

    Just like people blaming President Bush for tricking the Senate in the war (at no time does a President or his staff present evidence or witness's at Senate hearings) using the war to fill the pockets of his friends (one of Bush's appointee's would have to convince every civil servant on many different levels through a highly structured process to risk their careers to award a federal contract to a friend) Bush ruined the economy (the official date of the decline of the economy was December 2000, before Bush even took office) and now this statement of how the war is about getting oil, all of these statements lack a basic understanding of the policies that guide them.

    I here liberals say that republicans are in denial about President Bush and his motives. I have analysed a lot of these points and just looking at policy and procedure can rule them out (such as tricking the senate, or giving contracts.) The evidence presented has no foundation and it is the liberals that are being lied to. If you can see that one of the major points of why President Bush is bad in the above paragraph is completely false, then why not question the other points that you are hearing. Research what is said based on policy and transcripts, don't take a journalists interpretation of the facts and call them gospil.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by builtthekid
    Thats bull**** im clearly against iraq why send my brother
    are dad to die over some oil.

    lmfao....geez

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxima
    OPEC controls oil and the price of crude. Oil is traded on a world wide market, the more oil, the lower the prices. If Saddam had been sitting on a huge reserve and refused to sell there would be less total oil on the market making it more expensive. The conspiracy theorists would have a leg to stand on if this was the case and the US had gone to war to put this oil supply on the market and drive the price of oil down.

    Just like people blaming President Bush for tricking the Senate in the war (at no time does a President or his staff present evidence or witness's at Senate hearings) using the war to fill the pockets of his friends (one of Bush's appointee's would have to convince every civil servant on many different levels through a highly structured process to risk their careers to award a federal contract to a friend) Bush ruined the economy (the official date of the decline of the economy was December 2000, before Bush even took office) and now this statement of how the war is about getting oil, all of these statements lack a basic understanding of the policies that guide them.

    I here liberals say that republicans are in denial about President Bush and his motives. I have analysed a lot of these points and just looking at policy and procedure can rule them out (such as tricking the senate, or giving contracts.) The evidence presented has no foundation and it is the liberals that are being lied to. If you can see that one of the major points of why President Bush is bad in the above paragraph is completely false, then why not question the other points that you are hearing. Research what is said based on policy and transcripts, don't take a journalists interpretation of the facts and call them gospil.
    Maxima,

    Thank you for your insightful and well thought out posts.

    P.S. Lozgod, you just got owned.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozgod
    Just look at the contracts involved with rebuilding Iraq, and the Halibutrin deal, I mean are you in denial, or turning your head to the facts. Prove the justification for war. WE WENT IN THERE TO FIND AND DESTROY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION........THERE WERE NONE.........SO THEN THE MISSION IS CONVENIENTLY CHANGED...........am I making that up or is that statement true????????
    You are avoiding the question,, If all you say is true, where are the inquiries, the federal investigation, the national outcry of treason, why are the demmocrats not going to the matt. Well I tell you again because its all fantacy. There is no denial, or facts to turn away from, because your whole argument is based on fantacy.
    As for WMDs you assume that since we didnt find them yet they never existed, tell that to the tens of thousands who died from the nonexistant weapons.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by singern
    You are avoiding the question,, If all you say is true, where are the inquiries, the federal investigation, the national outcry of treason, why are the demmocrats not going to the matt. Well I tell you again because its all fantacy. There is no denial, or facts to turn away from, because your whole argument is based on fantacy.
    As for WMDs you assume that since we didnt find them yet they never existed, tell that to the tens of thousands who died from the nonexistant weapons.

    Another great point that many people fail to see. Clinton lied about getting a BJ in the white house and there was a huge investigation over it.

    So what liberals are saying is that they know all the facts about President Bush's deceit, but the liberals who hate Bush in the Senate don't? Someone typing on the internet or someone who makes movies knows more about what is going on in government than those who participate in it??

    Where is the investigation, lying under oath is pretty bad; but since liberals know that the war is about oil, getting contracts, etc. and young men and women died for it, where is the massive investigation??

    The truth is that during the debates you will never hear Kerry bring up any of these radical ideas that liberals have been fed and now believe, they are simply false.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxima
    The truth is that during the debates you will never hear Kerry bring up any of these radical ideas that liberals have been fed and now believe, they are simply false.
    My point exactly. The only people who beleive this sheit are the ones spreading it, without ever asking or caring to see proof. They dont want proof. They are just happy spreading the bull.....

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