08-06-2004, 08:44 PM #1
An ad the Kerry campaign will NOT be using
Last edited by UrbanLegend; 08-06-2004 at 09:02 PM.
08-06-2004, 08:53 PM #2
Thats cool, not everybody likes him.... Not everybody likes me either. I mean.... who are those guys? LOL, there are nobody. They say he didnt do anything, but what about the guys who said he saved their life... pulled them out of the water while they were drowning and wounded. I guess that didnt happen either... the goverment just gives out purple hearts without investigation, they just take your word for it. Everybody has'em.
08-06-2004, 08:56 PM #3
That video is just republican propaganda, those guys probably dont even know John Kerry. Nice try though.
08-06-2004, 08:59 PM #4
Dude, do not insult purple hearts. They stand for something honorable, unlike this Kerry fellow.....not saying Bush is our nation's savior either but hes not using his war credentials to run for President.
Besides, these are the guys who served with him. If you want information, go directly to the source......If this ad ever airs on TV it will be HUGE. And this ad is not the only one of its kind, if you look around there are lots of guys who served with Kerry saying the same thing.
I don't know for sure whether or not Kerry is lying, but I have seen a lot of evidence that he has. And I at this point in time believe that he did.
Last edited by UrbanLegend; 08-06-2004 at 10:43 PM.
08-06-2004, 09:01 PM #5Originally Posted by EastCoaster
These guys served with him bro, and they are telling it like it is. Get real.
Last edited by UrbanLegend; 08-06-2004 at 09:05 PM.
08-06-2004, 09:07 PM #6
Bush is not using his credentials because he doesnt have any.
John Kerry has 3 purple hearts... do you really think thats by mistake? Do you thnk the goverment just gives them to you because you say that you saved somebody and they take your word for it? They investigate the situation, interview everybody possible to find out the truth. He earned them or he would not have them. He was wounded 3 times during war and thats more than most of us can say. Hero in my book.
08-06-2004, 09:13 PM #7
Oh yea... I forgot to mention he has a Bronze Star that the military rewards for heroism, and a Silver Star that you get for basically puttting your life on the line.
I guess they just gave them to him also.
08-06-2004, 09:13 PM #8
Please watch the clip again.......and again....and again.....and then edit your posts
Just because he didn't lie about everything he did in 'Nam and doesn't mean he didn't lie about the things that got him the awards.....and there could be a littel bribery involved. Notice how this is put out by a non-profit non-partisan group, yet the people that Kerry "saved" all seem to be in his campaign.....interesting.
08-06-2004, 09:20 PM #9
I am a War Time Vet and to attack a Man's credential for his war time service is wrong and just straight malicious… I am sure Kerry earned every one of his purple hearts…This is just straight political CRAP! If it were me, I would straight rip the throat out of whoever questioned my wartime service!
08-06-2004, 09:25 PM #10Originally Posted by Fat Guy
08-06-2004, 09:26 PM #11
Another thread for those of you who still think Kerry is a war hero.....
FatGuy, would you think it was cool if I went before congress and said I did all these great things in war and earned some cool medal having NOT really done the things I said? Would you still think it was "wrong and just straight malicious" for someone to say "Hey pal, you're a phony, and you didn't earn those awards?"
Better yet, what if half my presidential campaign was based on my military credentials?
Besides, have you seen the clip? You sound more to me like you have already made up your mind and refuse to change it regardless of the facts...typical liberal behavior Yes, I am taking shots at the libs now, but I'm not a republican so I figured it would be okay
08-06-2004, 09:27 PM #12
Goverment records. (these ones didnt get lost)
08-06-2004, 09:28 PM #13
That video has ties to texas, GW might not have paid for but it doesnt mean that some of his supporters didnt. Like i said before SwiftBoat duty by itself was extremly dangerous in Nam espically on the Mei'kong Delta. Ill take the ex Green Beret Jim Rassmann's word on what happend when Kerry saved his life. Like i said before Kerry in my opnion was a Warrior in Nam anyone who served in Nam was a warrior i respect everyone that served in that '****hole.
08-06-2004, 09:29 PM #14
Cool, he volunteered. Bush didn't, but this thread isn't about him.....and I don't think Bush is that great either FYI, so dissing him doesn't hurt my feelings
In what way does this prove that Kerry earned his awards? I have yet to see evidence pointing to the contrary of what I have posted.....just opinions.
08-06-2004, 09:30 PM #15
08-06-2004, 09:32 PM #16Originally Posted by JT2k
This is a question, not a rebuttal: What ties does it have to Texas? If it has some, I might delete this thread. It looked pretty non-partisan to me, like it was some veterans who were pissed off that Johnny Boy lied to get his medals....
08-06-2004, 09:41 PM #17
Im not trying to rebutt anything you have your opnion i have mine all im basing my opnion on is jim rassmann story, i dont know if you know any Green Berets or not but they dont exactly like to spout off about how someone saved there life, the majority of them are quiet professionals and everything i see in Rassmann when he is interviewed i can tell he was a Hardcore Warrior in that war. He has the 1000 mile gaze in his eyes, the same eyes i saw before i gotta outta the military, the same eyes that my mom and dad ask me about when i came home. Thats all if you want to believe those guys thats cool but for me Rassmann's eyes and his voice tell me he is being honest about the story...
08-06-2004, 09:45 PM #18Originally Posted by JT2k
So does this clip have ties to Texas or not? I'm guessing not because you didn't say so......
You're right, I have my opinion you have yours, but Jim Rassmann is one guy.....there are many more saying Kerry lied about what he did in 'Nam. Something doesn't quite fit here.....
08-06-2004, 09:47 PM #19Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
Now as far as thinking Kerry went up to congress and gave them a line of bull with a smile and a wink and Congress handed over 3 Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star just because Kerry had a good line then SIR you are truly a MORON! The military does not hand these awards out without strong investigation and valid recommendation! Hey, I have an idea for you why don’t you try thinking for yourself for once instead of believing some politically motivated commercial.
Last edited by Fat Guy; 08-06-2004 at 09:50 PM.
08-06-2004, 09:48 PM #20
JT2K, I tip my hat to you.
Urban... its like I said, dont you think the military would have investigated this? They can and have taken medals back before, if there was something to this I'm sure the Bush Adminstration would have been on top of it.
08-06-2004, 09:55 PM #21Originally Posted by Fat Guy
I like how you put the chinese smiley in there at the end, it never really seems to fit anywhere, I have never understood why its on here
Does the fact that Bush sucks make Kerry the Messiah? You seem be supporting Kerry and refusing to believe anything bad about him......that sounds pretty partisan to me. And Congress may not have done the best job checking the background for Kerry's merits.....they may have had a lot of other things going on, in fact, they did, it was a choatic time back then.....even more so than now. Plus they probably had a lot of other guys to investigate too, they probably didn't bust out a CSI type investigation if you know what I mean.....am I blaming Congress; no. I'm blaming Kerry for deceaving them......And I would encourage you to think out of the box bro, you seem to have your mind made up. I was a Kerry supporter only a few months ago, can you believe that? The reason I changed was because I read a little more, and dug a little deeper, and did not base my opinions on Bush by watching Michael Moore movies.
Heres some more for you guys to chew on if you still won't at least entertain the ideas I am presenting here: http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/
Last edited by UrbanLegend; 08-06-2004 at 09:59 PM.
08-06-2004, 09:58 PM #22Originally Posted by EastCoaster
It would also look a little supspicous, don't you think? I can see how the media wouldn't exactly be kind to Bush for taking away Kerry's medals, seeing how liberal the media is.......
And Kerry's family probably kept a lot of mouths shut, in fact they were probably a big reason why he got his medals in the first place.
08-06-2004, 09:58 PM #23
There is a whole chain of command that the recommendations have to go through before it is recommended and investigated to give the award. A Bronze Star is not something that is lightly given away and the recommendation for that goes through an extensive scrutiny. Come on Urban do you really think Kerry does not deserve his medals of valor? Kerry has been in politics a long time don’t you think that someone would have called him out a while ago. Don’t you think when he become Senator he went through some sort of extensive background investigating? Come on you really need to start thinking!
08-06-2004, 10:02 PM #24Originally Posted by Fat Guy
08-06-2004, 10:04 PM #25Originally Posted by Fat Guy
We're on the same page.
08-06-2004, 10:10 PM #26Originally Posted by EastCoaster
I'm going to abandon this thread for the evening. I have responded enough for the night, and we need to have more than just the same people posting........
08-06-2004, 10:13 PM #27Originally Posted by EastCoaster
08-06-2004, 10:29 PM #28
The ad is brand new, im digging on it and im linking things together ill have a presentation of facts for you soon. BTW Kerry has the medals those are FACTS the ad is the opnions of other veterans. So post some more evidence where you have substanital facts about specific times and dates where he didnt get shot or where he didnt save Rassmann's life.
08-06-2004, 10:49 PM #29
I am not saying Kerry is the Messiah, but anyone is better than Bush! Honestly, I would vote for old Raphy Nader if I thought he had a chance. Since Bush has been in office there has been a lot (I mean a lot) of bad policy decision made by him and his administration that I totally disagree with and that is why I say vote for anyone except Bush. Look here what if come down to I am a “for the people, by the people” kind of guy and Bush’s policy are not that, instead they are for “Big Business, For Business” and F**K the common working guy.
In addition, Yeah I do know how they investigate for recommendations for medals… did you not read I was in the military and have a few medals of my own.
Kerry Has 3 Purple Hearts, 1 Bronze Star, & 1 Sliver Star
Bush has no military achievement awards.
Kerry is War Time Vet.
Bush was National Guard during Vietnam.
Bush started a war based on WMD’s premise and none was found.
Bush has put unfunded mandated on an already overburdened education system
Bush has close ties to Ken Lay, the Bin Laden Family, Haliburton, and strong supporter of the Christian Coalition.
More Veteran’s Hospitals and Benefits have been cut during this administration than any other administration.
California was in an energy crisis and the administration did nothing to help CA out (why would they CA tends to vote lib).
Bush’s Administration tends to bust on unions (Teachers, Police, Firer Fighters, ect.)
Bush would not speak at NAACP conference even though he was asked to by them (why would he they tend to vote lib)
Bush wanted to change the constitution to ban Gay marriage! In a world where it is sport to “who wants to marry a midget” just to appease the religious sect of society
Passed the Patriot Act limiting civil rights for many people
These are just some of the facts that roll of the top of my head… there are more and no I am not doing your research for you. All you have to do is look any of this up and you will find plenty of documentation on it.
Last edited by Fat Guy; 08-06-2004 at 11:02 PM.
08-06-2004, 10:52 PM #30Originally Posted by Fat Guy
He also has a silver star.
February 28, 1969:
Kerry and his boat crew, while coming under attack while patroling in the Mekong Delta, decide to counterattack. In the middle of the ensuing firefight, Kerry leaves his boat, pursues a Viet Cong fighter into a small hut, kills him, and retreives a rocket launcher. He is awarded a Silver Star.
08-06-2004, 11:31 PM #31
Well, I lied, curiousity got the better of me. I came and checked up on this thread and here I am, adding yet another response.....
JT2k: Why don't you go find that connection Texas has with the clip before you start asking for substantial facts of anykind, k bro? The ad and the other things I posted are 'opinions,' yet, but they are opinions based on the facts, which is what I have. Those men were with Kerry and saw him in action, I would say their 'opinion' matters more than anything posted in this thread by anybody. In court these guys would be called witnesses, because they saw what happened, thereby making what they saw fact.
I don't have exact proof that Kerry wasn't shot if didn't save Rassmann's life, but I do have enough to cast doubts of whether or not Kerry deserves all his medals if nothing else.....and thats all I am saying, just entertain these ideas I am presenting. The fact that Kerry has his medals does not convince me based on a lot of information, not all of which is on the internet and thus cannot be posted in this thread. The fact that Kerry has his medals should not be enough to convince you that he deserves them either.
Fat Guy: Your "Anyone is better than Bush" mantra really scares me.....it seems as though you are not willing to look at Bush at all, which means you are not willing to examine the other side. Your close-mindedness greatly inhibits your judgment. Imagine if all you heard about steroids was how horrible they were, how deadly they are, ect, and did not examine the other side. You would be missing out on a great chance to improve your physique freind...... There is a lot of evidence from medical professionals, ect, that you could use to debate with people how dangerous these substances are, just as there is a lot of evidence that they are safer than they are made out to be.....
You have pointed out a lot of things about Bush that are worth debating about. So start a thread with those facts, and let us and whoever else wants to participate go back and forth on them. However, none of these things have to do with the topic at hand. So they don't belong in this thread.....sorry bro.
And please stop saying you know how they investigated Kerry.....were you there? Were you in the military at the same time he was, do you know how the procedures were carried out back then? You really do not have firsthand knowledge of what went on with the investigation of Kerry to determine his qualifications for the awards he recieved. I am not saying you weren't in the military or don't know how they go about investigating potential candidates for medals; but you do not know how they investigated Kerry. You don't. And you cannot debate with me on that.
08-06-2004, 11:36 PM #32Originally Posted by UrbanLegand
Friday, August 6, 2004 Posted: 9:06 AM EDT (1306 GMT)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A wealthy Texan and prolific Republican donor is helping bankroll a television ad assailing Democrat John Kerry's decorated military record in the Vietnam War.
Houston homebuilder Bob J. Perry has donated at least $100,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a suburban Washington-based group airing a new ad in which Vietnam veterans who served on swift boats accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his war record.
The group bought $500,000 of airtime for the 60-second ad to air in the battleground states of Wisconsin, Ohio and West Virginia.
The effort is reminiscent of a 2000 effort that helped drive George W. Bush's then-rival John McCain from the presidential race.
Four years ago, Dallas brothers Sam and Charles Wyly financed $2.5 million in ads run under the auspices of "Republicans for Clean Air" criticizing McCain in the week before GOP presidential primaries in California, New York and Ohio. Those ads promoted then-Texas Gov. Bush's environmental record and criticized that of McCain, the Arizona senator. Bush won the primaries in all three states.
Perry's June donation accounted for most of the $158,750 that Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, founded in April, reported raising as of June 30. John Krugh, a spokesman for Perry Homes, declined to comment on Perry's contribution.
"This is a personal action on his part," Krugh said Thursday. "We don't participate in media interviews."
Perry didn't immediately respond to a message seeking comment.
Last year, Perry Homes donated $10,000 to the Republican Governors Association. Perry has given at least $260,000 to Republican candidates and party committees on the federal level from the 1999-2000 election cycle to the current cycle, according to donation data compiled by the nonpartisan Political Money Line.
Perry's donations in the 2003-04 cycle include $10,000 to the pro-Republican Club for Growth political group and at least $19,250 to federal candidates and party committees, including $2,000 to Bush's re-election effort.
He is also a major giver in Texas. A 2002 study by the campaign finance watchdog group Texans for Public Justice ranked Perry as the No. 3 donor in the state that election cycle, with at least $1.5 million in contributions to Republican candidates and political action committees in Texas.
Perry's support for the veterans group comes as Republicans search for major donors to help counter the efforts of wealthy Democrats such as George Soros and Peter Lewis. Each has given more than $12 million to anti-Bush groups running ads and get-out-the-vote efforts.
The biggest known donor so far among pro-Bush groups is Jerry Perenchio, chief executive of the Spanish-language media company Univision, who gave $1 million in June to the Progress for America Voter Fund.
May 4, 2004 Salon Weekly| The latest conservative outfit to fire an angry broadside against John Kerry's heroic war record is Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which today launches a campaign to brand the Democrat "unfit to serve as commander in chief." Billing itself as representing the "other 97 percent of veterans" from Kerry's Navy unit who don't support his presidential candidacy, the group insists that all presidential candidates must be "totally honest and forthcoming" about their military service.
These "swift boat vets" claim still to be furious about Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony against the war in which he spoke about atrocities in Indochina's "free fire zones." More than three decades later, facing the complicated truth about Vietnam remains difficult. But this group's political connections make clear that its agenda is to target the election of 2004.
Behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group's media contact; eternal Kerry antagonist and Houston attorney John E. O'Neill, law partner of Spaeth's late husband, Tex Lezar; and retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, a cigar-chomping former Vietnam commander once described as "the classic body-count guy" who "wanted hooches destroyed and people killed."
Spaeth told Salon that O'Neill first approached her last winter to discuss his "concerns about Sen. Kerry." O'Neill has been assailing Kerry since 1971, when the former Navy officer was selected for the role by Charles Colson, Richard Nixon's dirty-tricks aide. Spaeth heard O'Neill out, but told him, she says, that he "sounded like a crazed extremist" and should "button his lip" and avoid speaking with the press. But since Kerry clinched the Democratic nomination, Spaeth has changed her mind and decided to donate her public relations services on a "pro bono" basis to O'Neill's latest anti-Kerry effort. "About three weeks ago, four weeks ago," she said, the group's leaders "met in my office for about 12 hours" to prepare for their Washington debut.
Although not as well known as Karen Hughes, Spaeth is among the most experienced and best connected Republican communications executives. During the Reagan administration she served as director of the White House Office of Media Liaison, where she specialized in promoting "news" items that boosted President Reagan to TV stations around the country. While living in Washington she met and married Lezar, a Reagan Justice Department lawyer who ran for lieutenant governor of Texas in 1994 with George W. Bush, then the party's candidate for governor. (Lezar lost; Bush won.)
Through Lezar, who died of a heart attack last January, she met O'Neill, his law partner in Clements, O'Neill, Pierce, Wilson & Fulkerson, a Dallas firm. (It also includes Margaret Wilson, the former counsel to Gov. Bush who followed him to Washington, where she served for a time as a deputy counsel in the Department of Commerce.)
Spaeth's partisanship runs still deeper, as does her history of handling difficult P.R. cases for Republicans. In 1998, for example, she coached Kenneth Starr, the independent counsel, to prepare him for his testimony urging the impeachment of President Clinton before the House Judiciary Committee. She even reviewed videotapes of his previous television appearances to give him pointers about his delivery and demeanor. The man responsible for arranging her advice to Starr was another old friend of her late husband's, Theodore Olson, who was counsel to the right-wing American Spectator when it acted as a front for the dirty-tricks campaign against Clinton known as the Arkansas Project; he is now the solicitor general in the Bush Justice Department. (Olson also happens to be the godfather of Spaeth's daughter.)
In 2000, Spaeth participated in the most subterranean episode of the Republican primary contest when a shadowy group billed as "Republicans for Clean Air" produced television ads falsely attacking the environmental record of Sen. John McCain in California, New York and Ohio. While the identity of those funding the supposedly "independent" ads was carefully hidden, reporters soon learned that Republicans for Clean Air was simply Sam Wyly -- a big Bush contributor and beneficiary of Bush administration decisions in Texas -- and his brother, Charles, another Bush "Pioneer" contributor. (One of the Wyly family's private capital funds, Maverick Capital of Dallas, had been awarded a state contract to invest $90 million for the University of Texas endowment.)
When the secret emerged, spokeswoman Spaeth caught the flak for the Wylys, an experience she recalled to me as "horrible" and "awful." Her job was to assure reporters that there had been no illegal coordination between the Bush campaign and the Wyly brothers in arranging the McCain-trashing message. Not everyone believed her explanation, including the Arizona senator.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.
"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.
The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.
"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad.
Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts.
Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.
The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.
"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."
Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad." (Special Report: America Votes 2004)
Later, McCain said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."
The White House and Bush-Cheney campaign did not address McCain's call that they repudiate the spot, though a Bush spokesman said the campaign does not question Kerry's highly decorated war service. McCain is co-chair of Bush's campaign in Arizona.
In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.
McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because "it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal."
"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."
McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.
The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day -- Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying on all fronts.
They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account "pure fabrication."
Last edited by JT2k; 08-06-2004 at 11:46 PM.
08-06-2004, 11:59 PM #33
O.k.! Urban I have checked out Bush and that is why I do like him. It is so Rush Limbaugh to use the argument that if I do not agree with you then I am just misinformed and ignorant. Please be a little more original. I do not like Bush because I am informed. BTW, you are questioning the integrity, honor, and thoroughness of the military and their procedures, which have some of the best procedures and protocols that any organization has had in existence. For your attempt to denigrate military code of behavior in order to make some political point about some presidential candidate is ludicrous and I do not think I have anything more to say to you on this point. I believe if the United States Military says that he earned medals of valor for honor and bravery during combat situations then it is true because they do not give these things away lightly no matter who you are. I am done here!
08-07-2004, 12:30 AM #34Originally Posted by Fat Guy
You misunderstood what I said. When I said look at the other side, that meant look at Kerry's faults. You seem very quick to point out Bush's, but seem to be choosing to ignore Kerry's, at least from what I have seen. I am questioning the honor and integrity surrounding Kerry's medals, but not that of the United States Military.
I do respect your opinion though.
JT2k, I am not upset at you or anything you said bro, sorry if anything I said gave you that impression. I already stated why the ad is not just opinion, they served WITH Kerry, they are witnesses of what he did or did not do to earn the medals he so proudly boats about. I am starting to wonder if you watched the clip or just have selective hearing......
Props to you for bringing in the evidence that this is tied to the Republicans, I wondered that the first time I saw this but didn't really see any evidence tying it to them with a breif search. It certainly is more than just a little something to consider when watching the clip. I still don't think the men in it are lying though, and McCain is probably just bitter.....plus with how liberal the printed media tends to be who knows...they did seem very demeaning of it in their articles with the way they worded them. They only seemed to be able to discredit Thurlow, not the other guys which makes me even more suspicious.....if all these guys were lying about serving with Kerry, they would surely have pointed it out. And with Kerry throwing his medals away, and having more waffles than a house of pancakes what I have seen as evidence to him not being worthy of the medals he boats about will always make me believe he didn't deserve them. He has 0 credibility with me.
Last edited by UrbanLegend; 08-07-2004 at 12:36 AM.
08-07-2004, 12:35 AM #35
Look man im undecided not even a liberal i support issues on both sides if you look at the "what does it take for iraq2 to be a failure thread" i take up for the bush white house throught the whole thread. I just dont like anyone condemening anyone for there war record unless they are dishonarbly discharged. They are all hero's in my opnion. But i will tell you this if you read the 911 commission i have 28 pages left of it you will see alot of bull**** outta the bush white house.
08-07-2004, 12:43 AM #36Originally Posted by urbanlegend
Last edited by JT2k; 08-07-2004 at 09:20 AM.
08-07-2004, 09:45 AM #37Originally Posted by JT2k
They saw Kerry in action, saw what he did. They were in the same company as him, as you already pointed out. So because not all of them were not on the same boat as him, does that change what they saw?
McCain may or may not be bitter....it was one of those things I was just saying was a possiblility. IMO he very well likely is.
As for Kerry calling out his fellow officers....BS. He has all of these people saying what really happened, and we are supposed to take the word of a guy who waffles issues left and right? Him condemning what went on supposodly is yet another reason why he should not be using the medals to run for president. He disowned them completely; why should he know get to use these honors to run for presidency? Especially when I think he is lying:
"My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.' They wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the things that are described happened.
Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In Kerry's description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first..."
"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom."
"My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"
- Steven Gardner
08-07-2004, 03:56 PM #38
I listened to an interview of Steven Gardner, the gunner on Kerry's boat, today. Here is a summary of what he had to say:
Kerry received his second purple heart for blowing up a rice bin with a grenade, and the exploding rice became implante in his butt ( I missed talk about the first)
Kerry's third purple heart was from bumpin his ass on part of the boat
Kerry received his medals without the normal written documentation (two reports are required) and refuses to sign the public release to back up his claims.
It is unheard of for someone to receive three purple hearts and not have the proper reports, and not spend any time out of duty.
Purple hearts are only supposed to be given during action during conflict, two of Kerry's were not during "action."
One of the medics that treated Kerry said his wound was not serious enough for a purple heart.
Steve also criticized Bush and is not on his payroll. He admitted that some republican gave 100K. Kerry received 50,000,000 from some billionare for his ads. Steve seemed to only care about getting out the truth about Kerry's lies regarding his military record. Bush criticized the SwiftBoat Veterans. This is all that I know on the subject, but more might come to mind later.
08-07-2004, 04:05 PM #39Originally Posted by EastCoaster
3 other boats pulled the men from the water... kerry returned after the dust had settled..
There was no enemy fire from the shore..
This is a quote from his "Fellow Officers"
hail chief........The answer to your every question
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted
to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially
one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
If you get scammed by an UGL listed on this board or by another member here, it's all part of the game and learning experience for you,
we do not approve nor support any sources that may be listed on this site.
I will not do source checks for you, the peer review from other members should be enough to help you make a decision on your quest. Buyer beware.
Why the Police will Kick your ass
08-07-2004, 09:55 PM #40
I only wish republicans would look half as hard at Bush.
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