08-17-2004, 08:04 PM #1
"Is the bible just jewish tales" and "why the religious brain"
This is originally a reply to a post (called: RELIGION) but I thought F it I'll just make a brand new one.
Originally Posted by DBarcelo
He says this religion is nothing but "old arabic tales".
Well sometime ago I went ventured a little bit into this religious stuff. I began reading the bible by random and watching a christian channel. At fyrst I kind of liked it, both the bible and what the people were saying on the channel. The stuff I read and the things I heard were in my opinion pretty deep and thought inspiring.
But then as I continued to read the holy scripture one subject kept coming up... THE JEWS! Sometimes it felt like every sentence mentioned the word jew! I just couldn't take it anymore ... not that I hate jews.. but rather because I can't and will not believe in something that is almost TOTALLY centered on one race, like the whole world revolves around them. IMO it's the next worst thing from just worshipping some guy from the streets.
The christian channel was a worse case. I watched it cause I wanted to learn more and more deep life philosophies. But wait! Those ppl. just keep on repeating themselfes. Like "Be safed by Jesus today! It's not to late!" or "What does it mean to be safed blah blah" (from my view anyone can claim to be "safed".. no one knows who is safe or what it is. It's like a hip word to use if you're christian). The more I thought about it the more I believed those ppl. are in no way deep.. they're rather shallow than deep. What those popular TV preachers teach is just pop psychology, catch fraises or even brainwashing in some cases.
I completely quit watching that channel after the only thing they did was asking for money and more money.. they quit broadcasting preachings they just asked for money!
The religious quality of those shows is = dr. Phil. Just follow Dr. Phills advises and you'll be a great christian! Even without being christian!
But what then can you do if the bible is just old jewish tales? And the christian "gurus" are just pop psychologists?
Well I really don't know but you could take LSD and become a psychonaut .. some ppl. claim intense religous experience while trippin.. why not get the info from the source?
But seriously why do we have a part in our brain where "religous expirience" is generated?? Why if religion is just hogwash why then isn't that bodypart totally unnecessary?? There are some indications that there are special religious emotions and even special religous memories.
08-17-2004, 09:01 PM #2Originally Posted by sorn
Humans experience a fairly wide range of emotions, including Awe, Reverence, and another one aptly described as "Wow!" and "Holy Cow!" We's experience those emotions whether or not there were churches, whether or not we were Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddists, Zoroastrians, Shintos, etc etc etc. It's sorta the same emotion we feel when we look on mountains, a desert wasteland, witness a birth, experience a commonality with nature.
But the way humans are, we like to explain everything, and make stories. Combine the two, and you get legends. Add in a bureaucracy, and you get a preisthood and a formalized beleif system, and from there, organized religion.
As far as a special part of the brain dedicated to religion, I don't know about that. Maybe there is--my knowledge of brain function is pretty limited. But there are other parts of the brain that specialize in visual recognition, another for language, another for spacial comprehension, and etc etc. That there would be a particular spot where the emotions of Awe and Wonder are processed wouldn't surprise me. But that in itself wouldn't prove that religion was either necessary or reliable.
Your brain is your brain, it does lots of weird things, makes lots of things like thought and emotions possible, and keeps all your body organs and blood temperture working right. Fortunately, there's no need to worry about such things . . . just go ahead and enjoy and live your life. Of course, you could always study how the brain works, and maybe even add to the body of knowledge of why the thing works the way it does.
08-19-2004, 12:34 AM #3
I know what he talking about with there being a function in the brain that recognizes religion but I dont recall the details.
I wouldnt suggest you learn about god from TV evangalists. Most of them guys have really strange beliefs. Theres a couple that are ok but not many. If you really have an intrest in Gods religion. I would suggest first you read the entire old testament. Then get some history books of the cultures that the Jews interacted with. Then compare the information given by the two. One thing that is intresting is the plauges that moses and God brought upon the Egyptians in the Bible is also recorded in Egyptian culture. The battles that where won with small amounts of Jews are recorded in other cultures history. Then when you read the Old testament youll find numberous prophecys in the older texts that are made. That youll find in the New testament to come true. Int he old testament prophets foretold a exact story of Jesus.
You dont want to learn about God from like you said shallow TV evangelists that have other prioritys than to actually teach the religion.
08-19-2004, 01:08 AM #4Originally Posted by sorn
Second. Hey it was our religion, of course it is/was centered on us! If you don't like it find another religion to rip-off.
08-19-2004, 04:51 AM #5
BIBLE is supposed to be a holy book , but when a book starts to contradict itself , then it is no longer holy ! ............... the bible has been edited n printed , edited n printed throughout the ages .......... funny thing is Jesus himself never has anyone write down the bible in his life time , but 30 years after his passing , St. Paul comes in ( who was a jew ) n declares he is divinely posessed ........... and from him the compilation of the bible started , so the credibiltiy of this book being holy , GO FIGURE !
08-19-2004, 05:55 AM #6
We use to go to CCD classes on tuesdays in grammer school so we could recieve communion.. And one nun was talking about the Bible and my friend said what would you do if they found out the Bible was a made up book by someone.. So many things we stand for and believe in wouldnt mean anything
08-19-2004, 10:05 AM #7
Zoaib thats a pretty bold statement "BIBLE is supposed to be a holy book , but when a book starts to contradict itself" You care to tell us where in the bible it contradicts itself???? Ive read the enitre bible and researched many subjects in the bible and I have yet to come across where its contradicting itself.
08-19-2004, 10:21 AM #8
The old testament is the foundation of Judeo Christianity (thus the Judeo) and if you read the whole Bible including the New Testament you will see how the gentiles are part of it. As far as the "Jews" statements they are pretty ignorant. And mmc78's statement about "ripping off" the Torah was pretty offending.
It is limited views and extremist points of views like this that are the foundation for intolerance and ignorance towards our fellow man.
08-19-2004, 10:41 AM #9Originally Posted by 1victor
Last time I checked, Christians don't seem to tolerate Jews very well. Something about us being sinful Jesus killers.
Actually only the later 2 gospels and the works of Paul really attempt to rip-off the torah. The rest of the NT is relatively consistent with Judaism.
08-19-2004, 10:43 AM #10Originally Posted by Anhydro78
08-19-2004, 10:53 AM #11
Gonna have to be a little more specific than reread half the bible. If what you are getting at is the differences between the seemly different natures of God let me know and Ill clear that one up for you.
08-19-2004, 10:58 AM #12
I don't know what part of the world you are from but every Christian I know has no problem with the Jews. Please explain why we would hate you for killing Jesus?
08-19-2004, 10:59 AM #13
i still believe that almost all religions were started to explain the unexplainable and as a basis of law for mankind.. think about it, it is still used today. some people need religion to get by some dont.. i am not religious, i lean strongly towards science and PROOF.. but does that make me a bad person... i think not.. i dont rob, steal, plunder rape and etcc... but i do think religion is important to have.... though it does start a lot of wars.. go figure
08-19-2004, 10:59 AM #14Originally Posted by Anhydro78
For starters, check out Thomas Paine's AGE OF REASON.
Paine was a pivotal guy in the American Revolution, was also involved in the French Revolution until he started to question some of the French Revolutionaris' excesses, and they threw him in prison.
Anyway, it makes for interesting reading.
08-19-2004, 11:00 AM #15
I have just about any copy of any Jewish scripture and other books not in the bible. I have the Dead Sea Scrolls, the infentcy gospels, the other gospels.
Now there is scripture that actually contradicts the catholic church though. The institutionized church.
08-19-2004, 11:40 AM #16
MMC, of course the Old Testament and New Testament are different, the New Testament establishes the New Covenant with God and the old ways are cast aside.
Just because they are the old ways in no way takes away from their importance as the foundation of Christianity.
08-19-2004, 12:31 PM #17Originally Posted by Anhydro78
08-19-2004, 12:34 PM #18
The desciples were Jewish, Jesus was Jewish your point proves nothing except that the roots of Christianity are in The Old Testament, I don't think anyone would argue that.
08-19-2004, 12:34 PM #19Originally Posted by MMC78
08-19-2004, 12:38 PM #20
Well we know that the Jewish faith does not accept Jesus as The Christ, although they do believe in a messiah like figure such as Jesus is depicted in the New Testament. Nowhere is Jesus called a God in the New Testament. Please show me where it says Jesus is God in those words.
08-19-2004, 12:38 PM #21Originally Posted by 1victor
08-19-2004, 12:39 PM #22
And really I think it shows poor taste to call Christians pagans.
08-19-2004, 12:44 PM #23Originally Posted by 1victor
As a universalist you should recognize that paganism isn't necessarily an inferior religious system.
08-19-2004, 12:51 PM #24
It speaks of our old ways being cast aside and becoming new creatures in Christ. That is my meaning. Clearly the New Testament is different than the "eye for an eye" type of thinking in the Old Testament. What is your point of refering to John and Paul as Greek and Roman?
08-19-2004, 12:53 PM #25
I am not a Universalist, I was a long time ago. Your attitude clearly shows that you feel superior as a Jew over Christians which is unfortunate.
08-19-2004, 12:55 PM #26
Thats what I thought you where getting at. Christians believe that God trained his people in steps. He took a primative Nomad Tribe of people and turned them into civilized people. At first with the 10 commandments it was simple baby food .Dont kill each other, sleep with other peoples wives, Quit stealing,ect..... Then it became more advanced and god fed them some more structure. Giving them the Mosaic commandments. Then the prophets foretold of things to come in the New Testament. By the way if you dont realize what Old Testament and New Testament means. It is The Old Covenant and New Conenant between Man and God. The New covenant was intended to be the next step for the Jews but not all recognized it. And denied this new Covenant. See by the time jesus came God no longer had ignorant people to deal with.He had formed the jews into a civilized culture. Example, God no longer had to open the earth up and swallow people up due to the Hebrews not listening. They where suppose to be ready for the next step.
If you notice when reading your Jewish books the Jews would do fine for a a few decades and then things like taking wifes from other cultures would start to influence the Jews with Pagan Gods and then once again God would spank their azz's. Letting people invade their land. This is how it happened back and forth even untill this day. There is a reason the Jews are having a problem with the Palastinians. They did not conduct the 7 day war like God told them to fight a war. When God was with the Jews in battle they where to kill every living thing that inhabited the land Men,Women, Children, Cattle.... Now you think if the Jews listened to their instructions they would have a weak uncivilized arab people bombing the crap out of them everyday. This is how God interacts with the Jews. They are not promised heaven only good living if they listen.
08-19-2004, 12:55 PM #27
I just want to state something here for the record. I am not attacking Christianity. I believe that religion is a very positive thing in most people's lives. The moral teachings of most modern Christians exemplify how to treat others well.
I just want to point out the HISTORICAL origins of modern day Christianity.
08-19-2004, 12:56 PM #28Originally Posted by 1victor
08-19-2004, 12:59 PM #29Originally Posted by Anhydro78
08-19-2004, 01:04 PM #30
Fair enough. All I can say is that I strongly disagree with many, many aspects of the Catholic Faith, probably for the reasons you do. I am not talking of Catholics I am talking of Christians that follow the Bible. No offense to Catholics , if it works for you.
08-19-2004, 01:08 PM #31Originally Posted by Anhydro78
WOW......a man that suggests ethnic cleansing is the way to go. So you think Israel should have killed every man woman and child and animal in Palestine??.....The Palestinians might not agree with you......this is really freaking me out.....
08-19-2004, 02:19 PM #32
The bible has been changed and edited and re-written so many times im not sure you can believe a whole lot that is in there. The King James Bible which is what i am sure you are referring to is at best a quartinary source document and IMO is irrelevant to the word of god(as it was not written by god, the son of god, or whatever you believe in). It is a mere re-tell of a collection of stories.
08-19-2004, 02:22 PM #33
louie, I'm glad you have all the answers. Good luck in your endeavors.
08-19-2004, 02:24 PM #34Originally Posted by 1victor
how can you dispute that?
08-19-2004, 02:27 PM #35
Well I probably can't to you. Word for word the Bible fact? Not likely. Inspired by God yes. There are historical consistancies in the "stories" of the Bible which you consider fiction.
08-19-2004, 02:37 PM #36
I think its silly for an advanced society to believe in an invisible man in the sky who rains fire and anguish on his enemies....yet he loves us. Absolutely no different than the ancient egyptians believing whole heartedly in their polytheistic society. What makes you right and them wrong? They like people today use unexplained phenomenons in the same manner.... "god(s) works in mysterious ways" NOOOOO wrong things happen and their is always scientific/empircal data that can or will explain happenings. IMHO Religion does nothing but stifle free thought, and scientific progress. The one and only thing i agree with Karl Marx on......... "religion is the opium of the masses". I know i will never be in a position to govern as i do not possess the right last name nor the religious sanctity needed but if i were **** id tax the ish out of the church and solve our budget problems and bankrupt the religions of this country in all with one move.....
08-19-2004, 02:42 PM #37
God gave very specific intructions for the Jews fighting wars. And that was just it they where to kill everyone. Alot times they where not even allowed to take any of the dead peoples things. Your right there was no prophet with instructions on how to fight the 7 day war. But they have enough examples allready made through history and they should have followed them.
Yes the Arabs are a curse to christians and Jews. They where created for this very purpose. I have no sympothy for any of the muslims unless they want to denounce their religion.. As far as im concerned they where made for target practice.
Just for the record im not a christian. I am a person with christian heratige. And I do believe in God but I have problems. I pray and everything but I dont want to guys thinking that im a good representation of a Christian person. Ok
MMC78 if you are jewish I have a few questions for you. Do the Jews still practice sacrifice of animals??? Im thinking no but they might still perform this at ritual times. Right?? Ok is there any further instructions besides jesus's word, that say that the sacrifices are not nessacary any more????? If not did the Jewish culture evolve into not listening to the Mosaic Law???
08-19-2004, 02:48 PM #38
Louie , Thank you for proving my point again good luck to you and your mighty intellect solving the mysteries of the world and conquering the universe. How arrogant for a person to think that they know more than God. Mine is not a judgment but a statement regarding your last post.
08-19-2004, 02:50 PM #39Originally Posted by 1victor
08-19-2004, 02:55 PM #40
Louie, I hope one day your heart will change on this topic. Until then I sincerely hope that you find happiness and prosper, just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean that you don't have a place with him. Until then.....don't vomit..I will pray for you and all my other brothers spiraling around on this cess pool we call earth! Peace!
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