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  1. #1
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    On the road to bondage

    When the thirteen colonies were still a part of England, Professor Alexander Tyler wrote about the fall of the Athenian republic over two thousand years previous to that time:


    A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
    The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.

    Alexander Tyler

  2. #2
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    "A democracy is the worst form of government bseides all the rest"

    -Winston Churchill

  3. #3
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    What exactly are you trying to say?

    I hope you dont think the US is a democracy........ Democrarcy is no better than mob rule, news flash...... THE UNITED STATES IS A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. IT IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

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    Badger, I thought you were going to discuss your sex life!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Badger, I thought you were going to discuss your sex life!

    Good one....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdawg21
    What exactly are you trying to say?

    I hope you dont think the US is a democracy........ Democrarcy is no better than mob rule, news flash...... THE UNITED STATES IS A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. IT IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.

    Republic.....kinda like the Roman empire?

  7. #7
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    actually its both. takes ques from the roman republic and the athenian democracy....

  8. #8
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    Badger, Many people draw a similarity of America and the Roman Empire. Why do you think that it is seen that way by them?

  9. #9
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    by all means enlighten us on how it draws from athenian democracy........
    When reading the federalist papers and the convention notes the only references are to the roman republic, athenian democracy is never mentioned.

  10. #10
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    at the time the constitution was drafted, the only part of the FEDERAL Government that allowed for popular support was the house of representatives. All other parts of government were chosen by the states or senate. The people were intentioanlly left out of the mix because it was decided that democracy was the lowest form of government, this sentiment was an echo of Plato's Republic, and subjected the nation to a form of mob rule. Thus it was determined that the power should be removed from the hands of the people.

  11. #11
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    kdawg, I think you would agree in part that what we have is not a democracy. More of what we have is an elite class of people and special interest groups that run our country. To an extent the people have been removed from the process.

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    very good there is where those degrees come in handy!! (no flame meant in jest). I could have sworn the federalist papers were soley written as a propaganda tool for the proposed new constitution. The athenian democracy was a direct democracy, we have an indirect democracy where we control institutions though representitives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdawg21
    at the time the constitution was drafted, the only part of the FEDERAL Government that allowed for popular support was the house of representatives. All other parts of government were chosen by the states or senate. The people were intentioanlly left out of the mix because it was decided that democracy was the lowest form of government, this sentiment was an echo of Plato's Republic, and subjected the nation to a form of mob rule. Thus it was determined that the power should be removed from the hands of the people.
    thus the college selects the president.. not the masses..

    It is assumed that this smaller body of men would know the candidates better, and thus could choose the best man for the job..
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard
    thus the college selects the president.. not the masses..

    It is assumed that this smaller body of men would know the candidates better, and thus could choose the best man for the job..

    thread jack..... colorado is putting on its state ballots this november whether or not to proportionally split up electoral votes according to the popular vote. interesting stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Badger, Many people draw a similarity of America and the Roman Empire. Why do you think that it is seen that way by them?
    Our moral decay
    Ruling elite
    Heavy handed foreign policy

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Our moral decay
    Ruling elite
    Heavy handed foreign policy

    strange parallels, to bad humans are to stubborn and ignorant to learn from histroy tho.

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    The first two I agree with. As far as heavy handed foreign policy, I just can't fully agree. If we were as heavy handed as the Romans we would slaughter our enemies completely, which we have the capability of doing. Are we guilty of protecting self interests? YES. I also think that we are the only ones with the muscle and conviction to "dictate" foreign policy with an even hand.

    Unfortunately many peoples are selfish and violent by nature. We appear to be aggressors because our country is called to the role of protector. Either that or we have to become isolationists, which is an impossibility. I truly believe that our gov't and our people would like nothing better than to get out of the worlds business. The cost of money and human lives is horrific. If we don't "keep the peace" who will?

  18. #18
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    didnt the romans kill germanic tribes for their own "protection" similar to what we are doing with the towelheads? keeping the peace should be the UN's job altho we know they can be laxed in that area.

  19. #19
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    I'm not sure if the Germans of the time, the Huns, were conducting terrorist acts in downtown Rome. Can you see the difference?

  20. #20
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    well they did burn and pillage roman settlements along the outskirts of the empire so that is a form of terrorism. I dont think they had the means to get into the actual city of Rome unbothered lol

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