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  1. #1
    Jdawg50's Avatar
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    This is exactly why I want Bush and Cheney in office...

    Global survey shows 30 of 35 countries want Kerry in White House

    2 hours, 32 minutes ago Add U.S. National - AFP to My Yahoo!



    WASHINGTON (AFP) - A majority of people in 30 of 35 countries want Democratic party flagbearer John Kerry (news - web sites) in the White House, according to a survey released showing US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) rebuffed by all of America's traditional allies.


    AFP Photo



    On average, Senator Kerry was favored by more than a two-to-one margin -- 46 percent to 20 percent, the survey by GlobeScan Inc, a global research firm, and the local University of Maryland, showed.


    "Only one in five want to see Bush reelected," said Steven Kull, the university's program on international policy attitudes. "Though he is not as well known, Kerry would win handily if the people of the world were to elect the US president."


    The only countries where Bush was preferred in the poll covering a total of 34,330 people and conducted in July and August were the Philippines, Nigeria and Poland.


    India and Thailand were divided.


    The margin of error in the survey covering all regions of the world ranged from plus or minus 2.3 to five percent.


    Kerry was strongly preferred among all of America's traditional allies, including Norway (74 percent compared with Bush's seven percent), Germany (74 percent to 10 percent), France (64 percent to five percent), the Netherlands (63 percent to six percent), Italy (58 percent to 14 percent) and Spain (45 percent to seven percent).


    Even in Britain, where Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) is Bush's closest ally in the war on terror, Kerry trounced the incumbent 47 percent to 16 percent.


    Kerry was also greatly favored among Canadians by 61 percent to Bush's 16 percent and among the Japanese by 43 percent to 23 percent.


    Even among countries that have contributed troops to Iraq (news - web sites), most favored Kerry, and said that their view of US foreign policy has gotten worse under Bush.


    They included Britain, the Czech Republic, Italy, the Netherlands, the Dominican Republic, Thailand, Kazakhstan, Japan, Norway and Spain.


    Asked how President Bush (news - web sites)'s foreign policy had affected their feelings towards the United States, a majority of those polled in 31 countries said it made them feel "worse" about America, while those in only three countries said it had made them feel "better."


    "Perhaps most sobering for Americans is the strength of the view that US foreign policy is on the wrong track, even in countries contributing troops in Iraq," said GlobeScan President Doug Miller.


    In Europe, the exception for Bush was a new ally, Polland, where he was preferred by a narrow majority of 31 percent against Kerry's 26 percent.


    Another new European ally, the Czech Republic, however went for Kerry (42 percent to Bush's 18 percent) as did Sweden (58 percent to 10 percent).


    Asia was the most mixed region, though Kerry still did better. Aside from enjoying a large margin in Japan, he was preferred by clear majorities in China (52 percent to Bush's 12 percent) and Indonesia (57 percent to 34 percent).


    But those polled were divided in India (Kerry 34 percent, Bush 33 percent) and Thailand (Kerry 30 percent, Bush 33 percent).





    Latin Americans went for Kerry in all nine countries polled. In only two cases did Kerry win by a large majority -- Brazil (57 percent to 14 percent) and the Dominican Republic (51 percent to 38 percent) -- but in most cases the spread was quite wide.

    Bush was preferred in Nigeria with 33 percent as compared to Kerry's 27 percent but the Democratic candidate was favored in five other African states polled -- Kenya (58 percent to 25 percent), Ghana (48 percent to 24 percent), Tanzania (44 percent to 30 percent), South Africa (43 percent to 29 percent) and Zimbabwe (28 percent to six percent).

    Strongest negative views on US foreign policy were held in Germany, with 83 percent of those polled saying "worse" followed by France (81 percent), Mexico (78 percent), China (72 percent), Canada (71 percent), Netherlands ( 71 percent), Spain (67 percent), Brazil (66 percent), Italy (66 percent), Argentina (65 percent) and Britain (64 percent).

  2. #2
    Badgerman's Avatar
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    Great reasoning.....you want all the other countries to despise US......that's like saying you want Stalin or Hitler for prez....everybody hated them too!!

  3. #3
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    You must be crazy.... Yea lets vote for the guy that everybody hates... who wants global peace anyway.

  4. #4
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    You guys are killin me!

    Quote Originally Posted by EastCoaster
    You must be crazy.... Yea lets vote for the guy that everybody hates... who wants global peace anyway.
    I'm more interested in the interest of the US than the world. But nice refs to stalin/ hitler etc. And global peace... please with the nuts in this world you think Kerry's gonna bring Global Peace... Ha!

  5. #5
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    Perfect analogy.... LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Great reasoning.....you want all the other countries to despise US......that's like saying you want Stalin or Hitler for prez....everybody hated them too!!
    You must have a history background... Because the are basically the same thing... please

  6. #6
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    Voting for a president because he likes to go to war is the worst reason I can possibly think of. We've been unjust in what we've done.


    The world is a better place without Saddam, I dont argue that... BUT we were not justified in what we did!!!! Simple as that.... let me explain something to you. In the United States, lets say a police officer has a warrent for what he believes to be probable cause of a crime in someones home. He goes to the home, serves the warrent, searches the whole house and finds nothing! He CANNOT arrest that person, as a matter of fact, the person will probably file and press charges against the Police for invasion of privacy. BUT he did with Saddam? I guess the president does not have to abid by the consitution or the geneve convention.

  7. #7
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    Even though I want Bush in office......this thread is making him look bad. If they said that "Terrorist nations wanted Kerry in office" or something, that would make Bush look good and Kerry bad but this is just the opposite.....the fact that our allies do not support Bush is NOT a good thing!

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    Cycleon is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    the reason they dont like him is because he puts AMERICA's interests FIRST - and of course they think kerry will subjugate our policy to International accords - but as for me - I vote so that the President is in charge of the US of A, not so he can give our tax dollars and prestige to others

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    Quote Originally Posted by CYCLEON
    the reason they dont like him is because he puts AMERICA's interests FIRST - and of course they think kerry will subjugate our policy to International accords - but as for me - I vote so that the President is in charge of the US of A, not so he can give our tax dollars and prestige to others
    nicely put

  10. #10
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    U r the man bro!

    Quote Originally Posted by CYCLEON
    the reason they dont like him is because he puts AMERICA's interests FIRST - and of course they think kerry will subjugate our policy to International accords - but as for me - I vote so that the President is in charge of the US of A, not so he can give our tax dollars and prestige to others
    Listen up guys this is why he's the super mod!

  11. #11
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    GW puts his own interests first (as he should). Not saying Kerry would be any better or worse but lets be real here and accept the reality of public choice theory and that a politicians first priority is to remain in office (or get there) and they will do or say whatever it takes to make it happen. If by putting America first you mean being a proponent of market segement protectionism......well then my friend you might be a Democrat lol. Georgie has a bad, bad record on free trade, he claims he's pro Free Trade but his bills say otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by CYCLEON
    the reason they dont like him is because he puts AMERICA's interests FIRST - and of course they think kerry will subjugate our policy to International accords - but as for me - I vote so that the President is in charge of the US of A, not so he can give our tax dollars and prestige to others

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    Quote Originally Posted by CYCLEON
    the reason they dont like him is because he puts AMERICA's interests FIRST - and of course they think kerry will subjugate our policy to International accords - but as for me - I vote so that the President is in charge of the US of A, not so he can give our tax dollars and prestige to others
    They don't like him because his cowboy mentality puts THEIR security at risk.
    After all there is a large muslim population all over the world.
    Attcking sovereign governments willy nilly is trouble for everyone.....the sooner GW realizes this....the better off everybody will be.

  13. #13
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    If you beleive that Diplomacy is the most important aspect of foreign policy and that one should not go to war unless absolutely necessary, you cannot vote for bush. The war on terror is not going to be won through war, it will be won though a multi-lateral global collaborative effort.
    Last edited by saboudian; 09-08-2004 at 06:26 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CYCLEON
    the reason they dont like him is because he puts AMERICA's interests FIRST - and of course they think kerry will subjugate our policy to International accords - but as for me - I vote so that the President is in charge of the US of A, not so he can give our tax dollars and prestige to others
    no he doesnt!!! you gotta be sh!tting me!! I hope you seriouisly dont beleive that! the Bush administration pecking order goes like this: GOD--> SAUDI ROYALS --> Halibuton --> Defense Contractors --> Texas Rangers --> AND FINALLY US!

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    Comon bro... diplomacy with Hamas Hisbola, and Al Queda???

    Quote Originally Posted by saboudian
    If you beleive that Diplomacy is the most important aspect of foreign policy and that one should not go to war unless absolutely necessary, you cannot vote for bush. The war on terror is not going to be won through war, it will be won though a multi-lateral global collaborative effort.
    Really? Diplomacy? With these nuts that kill children and inocent people? You go ahead and vote for diplomacy... I'll vote for strength threw force/ power... You honestly think that being nice to everyone in the world is going to win the war on terror? You have got to be kidding me!

  16. #16
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    Thats the funniest thing I have ever seen???

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouie250
    no he doesnt!!! you gotta be sh!tting me!! I hope you seriouisly dont beleive that! the Bush administration pecking order goes like this: GOD--> SAUDI ROYALS --> Halibuton --> Defense Contractors --> Texas Rangers --> AND FINALLY US!
    If you honestly beleive that then I suggest you get your head out of the sand... Try listening to a little balance.. don't get all your information from Green day, and Michael Moore.. maybe start reading the Wall Street Journal editoral page or listen to some conservative talk... You need more balance in your news gathering bro.. because your wayyyyyy off. I listen to Air America everyday to get balance from my other new sources. I like to hear what the nuts think....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CYCLEON
    the reason they dont like him is because he puts AMERICA's interests FIRST - and of course they think kerry will subjugate our policy to International accords - but as for me - I vote so that the President is in charge of the US of A, not so he can give our tax dollars and prestige to others
    This isnt the early 1900's. We live in a global economy and a global world. What happens in powerful nations will definetly affect us.

    If you dont care what G8 countries like Canada, Japan, Germany, France, Spain etc think, then there are problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    This isnt the early 1900's. We live in a global economy and a global world. What happens in powerful nations will definetly affect us.

    If you dont care what G8 countries like Canada, Japan, Germany, France, Spain etc think, then there are problems.

    What kind of problems?

  19. #19
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
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    Problems with fighting the war on terror, Problems with trade, Problems with criminal investigations, Problems with economic factors, Problems with laws etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
    Problems with fighting the war on terror, Problems with trade, Problems with criminal investigations, Problems with economic factors, Problems with laws etc etc.
    All the countries you listed are finding out that the war on terror is as much in their interest as it is in ours, regardless of whether or not they like us. the US is a huge net buyer of foreign goods. Are they going to stop selling to us because they dont like us? We need to do what is important to the US and they'll learn to live with it.

  21. #21
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    I rather see Bush win actually, he is better for Islamic causes than Kerry.

    Plus I support the War in Iraq, although I belive the US needs to withdraw in January.

  22. #22
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    They dont like him because he has balls!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Really? Diplomacy? With these nuts that kill children and inocent people? You go ahead and vote for diplomacy... I'll vote for strength threw force/ power... You honestly think that being nice to everyone in the world is going to win the war on terror? You have got to be kidding me!
    Force and power?

    Israel has tried that for years and years... don't seem to be working too good, they got all the best toys and are willing to use them... yet after all these years nothing has changed... and they are only fighting a handfull of palestinians...

    Now you think that the US (or anyone for that matter) can win a so called "war on terror" on a global scale with strictly military means? Interesting...

    I doubt one can win *ANY* war unless they are fighting FOR peace.

    Red

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    If you honestly beleive that then I suggest you get your head out of the sand... Try listening to a little balance.. don't get all your information from Green day, and Michael Moore.. maybe start reading the Wall Street Journal editoral page or listen to some conservative talk... You need more balance in your news gathering bro.. because your wayyyyyy off. I listen to Air America everyday to get balance from my other new sources. I like to hear what the nuts think....

    nope its right on the money. look at this tax cuts, tax incentives for big business, govt contracts to corps hes in bed with, etc. I dont listen to Micahel Moore hes a fat slob. and as far as Green Day....they are still around? Maybe you need to get your head out the sand and start thinking. And also you shoudl lay off the Rush Limbaugh.....that oxyconitin is no good man! (I wish he OD'd)

  25. #25
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    This is why its time not to be politically correct. That and all the Anti-war protestors are our greatest weakness!!

  26. #26
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    well when more than 50% of the country feels that the war in Iraq was a mistake and want out....then you should look to the other side for a weakness

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    i hope bush wins.
    infact i will even pray that he wins.
    even though i think hes a dumbass.

    becuase the worst thing that can happen in the world for america & the muslims is for john kerry to get into power.

    you guys think the world hates you now. just wait untill john kerry gets into power.

    heres a couple of resons why i don't like john kerry.

    why john kerry is bad for americans :

    -hes a puppet for israel.
    -hes already bad mouthed the saudi's and when he gets into power the saudis will
    screw you guys in the ass by increasing the price of oil
    -he wants to "punish" iran which will mainly benifit israel and probably get you guys
    hated around the world even more.
    -he's bad mouthed nearly all the arabs and considering you guys need arab oil...
    -at a time where americans are low on $$$$money this idiot wants to give billions and billions of more money to israel. this john kerry wants to increase financial (loan guarentees) and millitry financial aid to israel. whichi think should be spent on poor american children and homeless people and shcools instead of israel.
    -hes a jackass.

    why hes bad for the muslims:
    -hes a puppet for israel.
    -hes aggresive towards muslims.
    -he wants to "punish" iran which will mainly benifit israel and probably get you guys
    hated around the world even more.
    -he wants to move israel capital into jerusalum.
    -hes going to screw over the palestinians.
    -hes a jackass.

    why hes bad for the europeans :

    - when he pisses around in the the middle east and brings around a war with iran or another muslim country the euro's(britan & others) are going to be expected to back up the americans.


    basically this guy john kerry is going to generate so much anti-americanism you guys are going to be begging for bush jnr to become president.

    http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=52883
    Last edited by physio_sport; 09-09-2004 at 08:33 AM.

  28. #28
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    My head is out of the sand?

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouie250
    nope its right on the money. look at this tax cuts, tax incentives for big business, govt contracts to corps hes in bed with, etc. I dont listen to Micahel Moore hes a fat slob. and as far as Green Day....they are still around? Maybe you need to get your head out the sand and start thinking. And also you shoudl lay off the Rush Limbaugh.....that oxyconitin is no good man! (I wish he OD'd)
    I just explained to you that I listen to several different new sources for my information... But then again you probably voted for Hilary Clinton... Right? The woman that proposed Candian like health care for the United States... Do you have any idea what would have happened to old Bill Clinton had he been treated in Canada? He would have gone in for chest pain, then waited about 20 days to see a cardiologist, then he would have waited another 30 days to get the bypass he needed.... oh excuse me no he wouldnt have...he would be dead... because his condition was so bad that he could have had a massive MI in like a few days... too bad that didnt happen.

    But go ahead and Vote for Kerry.. that's fine with me... if that's what you think will make this world better??? then go for it... We'll shoot spit wads and talk to Al Quida... how does that sound?

  29. #29
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    great post bro! 4 more years

  30. #30
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    Welll, Since they put that wall up thing sure have settled down...

    I would call that Force and power.. The rate of suicide bombers has almost completely dropped since the put up the wall. The only places they havent seen any suicide bombers is where the wall is not totally complete. I'm not saying that I like war, I'm saying it is nessesary in these times. You can't talk to these people, just like you could not talk to the nazi's... you have to kill them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
    Force and power?

    Israel has tried that for years and years... don't seem to be working too good, they got all the best toys and are willing to use them... yet after all these years nothing has changed... and they are only fighting a handfull of palestinians...

    Now you think that the US (or anyone for that matter) can win a so called "war on terror" on a global scale with strictly military means? Interesting...

    I doubt one can win *ANY* war unless they are fighting FOR peace.

    Red

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    I just explained to you that I listen to several different new sources for my information... But then again you probably voted for Hilary Clinton... Right? The woman that proposed Candian like health care for the United States... Do you have any idea what would have happened to old Bill Clinton had he been treated in Canada? He would have gone in for chest pain, then waited about 20 days to see a cardiologist, then he would have waited another 30 days to get the bypass he needed.... oh excuse me no he wouldnt have...he would be dead... because his condition was so bad that he could have had a massive MI in like a few days... too bad that didnt happen.

    But go ahead and Vote for Kerry.. that's fine with me... if that's what you think will make this world better??? then go for it... We'll shoot spit wads and talk to Al Quida... how does that sound?
    No im actually a moderate republican. John McCain should be president not bush. As far as Hillary goes no i voted for Rick Lazio. I did vote for Shumer though he impressed me more than the aging Al D'Mato. And Clinton would not have been dead that is a silly arguement they do have ER's in Canada. The Canadian healthcare doesnt cover things of that sort anyway, its privitized so im not sure what you are talking about. As far as spit wads at Al Queda thats a retarded analogy....Kerry voted down appropraitons for war because of where the mmoney was coming from....THE WORKING CLASS. When he and other senators wanted to ammend it Bush threatened to veto it so he tried to make the bill fail so it could be re-written. So there is your great war president. Im no fan of Kerry but i would vote for mule that could talk over Bush.....

  32. #32
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    Now that wasnt to hard now was it?

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouie250
    No im actually a moderate republican. John McCain should be president not bush. As far as Hillary goes no i voted for Rick Lazio. I did vote for Shumer though he impressed me more than the aging Al D'Mato. And Clinton would not have been dead that is a silly arguement they do have ER's in Canada. The Canadian healthcare doesnt cover things of that sort anyway, its privitized so im not sure what you are talking about. As far as spit wads at Al Queda thats a retarded analogy....Kerry voted down appropraitons for war because of where the mmoney was coming from....THE WORKING CLASS. When he and other senators wanted to ammend it Bush threatened to veto it so he tried to make the bill fail so it could be re-written. So there is your great war president. Im no fan of Kerry but i would vote for mule that could talk over Bush.....


    I'm glad to hear you voted for Lazio.. good man... but I hate to break it to you bro, but If you didnt like Hiliary Clinton your gonna hate Kerry... He was ranked the most liberal democrate in the Senate by an indepentant org.

    Canadian medicine is privatized?? really since when.. did that come over the news this AM? Its RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT.. Thats not private...

    I beg to differ on the canadian thing, because of the fact that he could have gone to the ER, does not mean he would have survived or could get that bypass in time... Plenty of people make it to the ER, but they don't usually come out after a massive MI.


    Kerry Voted against the money because that time in the race for the Dem nomination, Howard Dean was kicking his ass. He had to look like an anti-war guy to win the nomination. Did you see the debate with him and Howard Dean? Ahhh, Kerry acted like he was totally pro war... now he's anti-war??? Flip Flop! I can get the transcript from his meet the press interview about 8 months ago if you want me too...
    Last edited by Jdawg50; 09-09-2004 at 09:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    I would call that Force and power.. The rate of suicide bombers has almost completely dropped since the put up the wall. The only places they havent seen any suicide bombers is where the wall is not totally complete. I'm not saying that I like war, I'm saying it is nessesary in these times. You can't talk to these people, just like you could not talk to the nazi's... you have to kill them.
    Indeed, the wall has brought some peace and quiet... but thats just a band-aid solution. It will last for a while until the palestinians find another way to create mayem.

    But the wall isn't what we were talking about, military force is (you know attacks with guns, tanks and planes). And if you look at the last decades, all the bombs they dropped and all the bullets they fired haven't changed a thing. I think it's a fair assumption that all the bullets and bombs fired by both sides haven't done a single thing to resolve this conflict.

    The wall in my book is more about a peace plan than a show of force. if the mad bombers can't get thru, their leaders will have no other choices than to sit down with Israeli leaders and hammer out some way to coexist. I am not a great fan of the wall, having grown up during the cold war such a wall has a VERY negative connotation, but I can see the reason for it and it's effectiveness (for now).

    As for the nazis, when my grandfather went over the europe to fight them, they fought for peace. They didn't go to kill nazis, they went to protect England and liberate France, Belgium and so on... the allies had a peace plan and an exit strategy. Thats something thats painfully missing in Irak.

    Red

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Canadian medicine is privatized?? really since when.. did that come over the news this AM? Its RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT.. Thats not private...
    Not entirely true...

    Canada has a socialized medecine system meaning that all basic medical care is paid for by the taxpayers. Everyone from the poorest bum on the streets to the richest man in the country are allowed the same *basic* level of care.

    BUT

    Alongside the public basic care everyone can everyone gets, we also have a parralel private system of clinics and hospitals. Those are not covered by the public system, you have to pay or have extra insurance to use it.

    Just like in the US, with money comes privilege, both in our public and private systems. In a public hospital, money buys me a better room, quicker procedures and "outsourcing" to private clinics for quicker care.

    Most of us who don't work at shït jobs have supplemental medical insurance to get above and beyond what the socialized system gives us.

    The bottom line is that your example of Clinton is wholly inacurate, with his money he would have gotten the same care he is getting in the US simply by going thru the parallel private system here.

    Now what about the oposite, joe schmoe nobody who works in a burger joint flipping burgers barely making ends meet and has no medical insurance at all is in the same situation as clinton... he will get full treatment here... will there be delays? Sure, but he will get the care, and he won't go home with tens of thousands of $ of debts.

    Canadian medicare = basic level of care for everyone, if you can afford better, you can get it no problem, but nobody dies in the streets for lack of $$$ for care here.


    Red

  35. #35
    Jdawg50's Avatar
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    There is a huge dif between the two walls bro. They are trying to keep crazy people out, not keep their own in from finding democracy.

    All the bombs dropped havent changed a thing huh? How do you think we won WWII? talking to them? That statement is a bit strange to me???

    As far as sitting down with the Isrialies and the palistinians... (And here's something Clinton did do) They did, remember at Camp David, and they got like 98% of what they wanted, but Arafat wouldnt take the deal... please been there done that, and it DID NOT WORK!

    I beg to differ there is and exit stratagy, and that is empowering the Iraqis to hold elections, and form a new democracy. when that is done is when we leave. You can't just put an abitrary date down that says.. OK we will leave on December 22, 2006, at 12:12 PM.. IT does not work that way. WHat Bush has said is that he will stay until the job is done... And that is exactly what needs to be done. Europe was not rebuild in 12 months bro, nor was Japan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
    Indeed, the wall has brought some peace and quiet... but thats just a band-aid solution. It will last for a while until the palestinians find another way to create mayem.

    But the wall isn't what we were talking about, military force is (you know attacks with guns, tanks and planes). And if you look at the last decades, all the bombs they dropped and all the bullets they fired haven't changed a thing. I think it's a fair assumption that all the bullets and bombs fired by both sides haven't done a single thing to resolve this conflict.

    The wall in my book is more about a peace plan than a show of force. if the mad bombers can't get thru, their leaders will have no other choices than to sit down with Israeli leaders and hammer out some way to coexist. I am not a great fan of the wall, having grown up during the cold war such a wall has a VERY negative connotation, but I can see the reason for it and it's effectiveness (for now).

    As for the nazis, when my grandfather went over the europe to fight them, they fought for peace. They didn't go to kill nazis, they went to protect England and liberate France, Belgium and so on... the allies had a peace plan and an exit strategy. Thats something thats painfully missing in Irak.

    Red

  36. #36
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    ITS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!!!!!!
    Here's a perfect analogy... Would you rather eat Army Mess Hall food where everyone gets the same crap... or would you like to be able to choose where you go, and what you want to eat? I prefer Spago to Army Mess Hall food.

    There are plently of programs and ways for people to get healthcare here in the states. Medicare, Medicaid... go to any ER and they will take care of you...
    Shi* My wife works as a Nurse at a hospital and took care of a 21 yr old girl with her 4 th kid. She did not speak english, nor did here mom or grandma, and not a single one of them was employeed... guess what they got the same care as the person down the hall that had great insurance and money. Bud did she pay a dime??? No, she even asked for a Baby carrier for the car on the way out the door!??? Get a dam job??!??! Point is people get the care they need here in the states too.


    The bottom line is that your example of Clinton is wholly inacurate, with his money he would have gotten the same care he is getting in the US simply by going thru the parallel private system here.

    Yep and he would have waited about 60 days to get the bypass he needed bro. Which probably would have left him dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Ketchup
    Not entirely true...

    Canada has a socialized medecine system meaning that all basic medical care is paid for by the taxpayers. Everyone from the poorest bum on the streets to the richest man in the country are allowed the same *basic* level of care.

    BUT

    Alongside the public basic care everyone can everyone gets, we also have a parralel private system of clinics and hospitals. Those are not covered by the public system, you have to pay or have extra insurance to use it.

    Just like in the US, with money comes privilege, both in our public and private systems. In a public hospital, money buys me a better room, quicker procedures and "outsourcing" to private clinics for quicker care.

    Most of us who don't work at shït jobs have supplemental medical insurance to get above and beyond what the socialized system gives us.



    Now what about the oposite, joe schmoe nobody who works in a burger joint flipping burgers barely making ends meet and has no medical insurance at all is in the same situation as clinton... he will get full treatment here... will there be delays? Sure, but he will get the care, and he won't go home with tens of thousands of $ of debts.

    Canadian medicare = basic level of care for everyone, if you can afford better, you can get it no problem, but nobody dies in the streets for lack of $$$ for care here.


    Red

  37. #37
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    Where is Symatec????
    He loves giving me a hard time on this stuff!!!!!!!!

  38. #38
    physio_sport is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    As far as sitting down with the Isrialies and the palistinians... (And here's something Clinton did do) They did, remember at Camp David, and they got like 98% of what they wanted, but Arafat wouldnt take the deal... please been there done that, and it DID NOT WORK!
    exactly there you have it they only offered 98% of the palestinians own property.
    and secondly there is much more to this then what you have said.
    the israeli would have still controlled palestinian air space and the palestinians wouldn't be allowed to have a defence force aka millitry all they would be allowed is a small armed police force.

    honestly if i was palestinian i would have not accepted it either.

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    It is definitely socialist medicine. However, I do not know why Americans think you don't have a choice which hospital you wish to go to or which doctor will perform your procedure in Canada. It's true that most patients just take the first one that walks into the ER or whomever specialist their GP (yes you can pick your General Practitioner too) refers them to but I seriously doubt the average person in need of a given surgery knows who the best surgeon in town for that operation is. Bottom line is you can pick in Canada too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    ITS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!!!!!!
    Here's a perfect analogy... Would you rather eat Army Mess Hall food where everyone gets the same crap... or would you like to be able to choose where you go, and what you want to eat? I prefer Spago to Army Mess Hall food.
    No, no..if you have a life threatening or serious condition you get care immmediately. He would have recieved care like anyone else with his severity of condition. Unfortunately this causes other problems in the health care arena but we should debate this in another thread casue this one is about GW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Yep and he would have waited about 60 days to get the bypass he needed bro. Which probably would have left him dead.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdawg50
    Really? Diplomacy? With these nuts that kill children and inocent people? You go ahead and vote for diplomacy... I'll vote for strength threw force/ power... You honestly think that being nice to everyone in the world is going to win the war on terror? You have got to be kidding me!
    So you would really just prefer to start invading more countries? You really think thats the best way to piss more ppl off?

    My problem is invading countries who are not and weren't an imminent threat, especially with other diplomatic options still available. Do you have any idea how many innocent have died as a result of our unnecessary actions?

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