09-17-2004, 03:56 PM #1
Looks like the US army knows how to keep their soldiers morale high...
If they are stooping to those tactics, you know a draft can't be too far behind...
GIs claim threat by Army
Soldiers say they were told to re-enlist or face deployment to Iraq
By Dick Foster, Rocky Mountain News
September 16, 2004
COLORADO SPRINGS - Soldiers from a Fort Carson combat unit say they have been issued an ultimatum - re-enlist for three more years or be transferred to other units expected to deploy to Iraq.
Hundreds of soldiers from the 3rd Brigade Combat Team were presented with that message and a re-enlistment form in a series of assemblies last Thursday, said two soldiers who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The effort is part of a restructuring of the Army into smaller, more flexible forces that can deploy rapidly around the world.
A Fort Carson spokesman confirmed the re-enlistment drive is under way and one of the soldiers provided the form to the Rocky Mountain News. An Army spokesmen denied, however, that soldiers who don't re-enlist with the brigade were threatened.
The form, if signed, would bind the soldier to the 3rd Brigade until Dec. 31, 2007. The two soldiers said they were told that those who did not sign would be transferred out of the 3rd Brigade Combat Team.
"They said if you refuse to re-enlist with the 3rd Brigade, we'll send you down to the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, which is going to Iraq for a year, and you can stay with them, or we'll send you to Korea, or to Fort Riley (in Kansas) where they're going to Iraq," said one of the soldiers, a sergeant.
The second soldier, an enlisted man who was interviewed separately, essentially echoed that view.
"They told us if we don't re-enlist, then we'd have to be reassigned. And where we're most needed is in units that are going back to Iraq in the next couple of months. So if you think you're getting out, you're not," he said.
The brigade's presentation outraged many soldiers who are close to fulfilling their obligation and are looking forward to civilian life, the sergeant said.
"We have a whole platoon who refuses to sign," he said.
A Fort Carson spokesman said Wednesday that 3rd Brigade recruitment officers denied threatening the soldiers with Iraq duty.
"I can only tell you what the retention officers told us: The soldiers were not being told they will go to Iraq, but they may go to Iraq," said the spokesman, who gave that explanation before being told later to direct all inquiries to the Pentagon.
Sending soldiers to Iraq with less than one year of their enlistment remaining "would not be taken lightly," Lt. Col. Gerard Healy said from the Pentagon Wednesday.
"We realize that we deal with people and with families, and that's got to be a factor," he said.
"There's probably a lot of places on post where they could put those folks (who don't re-enlist) until their time expires. But I don't want to rule out the possibility that they could go to a unit that might deploy," said Healy.
Under current Army practice, members of Iraq-bound units are "stop-lossed," meaning they could be retained in the unit for an entire year in Iraq, even if their active-duty enlistment expires.
A recruiter told the sergeant that the Army would keep them "as long as they needed us."
Extending a soldier's active duty is within Army authority, since the enlistment contract carries an eight-year obligation, even if a soldier signs for only three or four years of active duty.
The 3rd Brigade recruiting effort is part of the Army's plan to restructure large divisions of more than 10,000 soldiers into smaller, more flexible, more numerous brigade- sized "Units of Action" of about 3,500 soldiers each.
The Army envisions building each unit into a cohesive whole and staffing them with soldiers who will stay with the unit for longer periods of time, said John Pike, head of the defense analysis think tank Global Security.
"They want these units to fight together and train together. They're basically trying to keep these brigades together throughout training and deployment, so I can understand why they would want to shed anybody who was not going to be there for the whole cycle," Pike said.
But some soldiers presented with the re-enlistment message last week believe they've already done their duty and should not be penalized for choosing to leave. They deployed to Iraq for a year with the 3rd Brigade last April.
"I don't want to go back to Iraq," said the sergeant. "I went through a lot of things for the Army that weren't necessary and were risky. Iraq has changed a lot of people.''
The enlisted soldier said the recruiters' message left him troubled, unable to sleep and "filled with dread."
"For me, it wasn't about going back to Iraq. It's just the fact that I'm ready to get out of the Army," he said.
Soldiers' choice at Fort Carson
WHAT THE FORM SAID
• "Elect not to extend or re-enlist and understand that the soldier will be reassigned IAW (in accordance with) the needs of the Army by Department of the Army HRC (Human Resources Command) . . . or Fort Carson G1 (Personnel Office).''
WHAT IT MEANS
• Soldiers who sign the letter are bound to the 3rd Brigade Combat Team until Dec. 31, 2007.
• Soldiers who do not sign the letter might be transferred out of the brigade and possibly to Iraq.
09-17-2004, 04:06 PM #2
Way off. The army is not "threatening" with the issue of going to Iraq. If the soldier says "Hey, I don't want to re-enlist" then they say "Well, we are going to have to use you somewhere else then." Its just like any other job I would imagine. When I was doing the paid internship thing, I was told that if I didn't like what I was doing then I could work on something else. And my guess is that I would be transfered to another area where I was most needed. I imagine it works the same way in most places of employment, the army is no exception. If you don't like what you are doing now, thats your deal, you signed up to be in the army for the army to use you. So if you don't want to re-enlist, then you can do something else.
The media wants to spin things, as they have for some time here in the U.S. I assume that by virtue of living in Canada you know all about that.......
My guess is a reporter asked loaded questions to the right people, and thus they have their story.
09-17-2004, 04:09 PM #3
If George Bush continues to avoid UN support and advice we will have no choice. We cant fight a war on two fronts, we simply dont have the man power. We're currently deploying soldiers to Asia in whats expected to be aggressive behavior from South Korea, as report by our allies in Japan. Japanese intelligence is telling us that South Korea is ploting a major uprising. Lets hope this doesnt happen.
09-17-2004, 04:48 PM #4Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
09-17-2004, 06:58 PM #5
im waiting one day for red to say something nice about America lol, JK red
09-17-2004, 07:22 PM #6
Forces are stretched so extremely thin right now, 40% of the troops in iraq are natl guard/reservists. I'd say that coed draft bill may not be that unrealistic that they are cookin up, hopefully I will have my egr degree if it somehow does pass after the election.
09-17-2004, 08:20 PM #7
Gee, maybe this would be a opportune time to publish a book I've been thinking about, "Let Your Gay Friends Get You Out of the Military." Huh . . . I'm a certified flaming queen, for $10 I'll be glad to vouch for anyone's "Don't Ask Don't Tell" tendencies . . .
Maybe I could do a "Uncle Sam's Queen For A Day Kit." Maybe "Auntie Samatha's Queen For a Day Kit." Included would be, let's see, speedos, a razor and shaving cream for a full body shave, a list of vocabulary words and phrases to memorize and use (Fabulous! Miss Thang! I'll slap you silly, you bitch! Oh, you're such a card! We MUST do brunch!) and some other stuff . . .
The USAF had a shrink examine me to see if I was really gay . . . he prepared by reading the gay chapter in Dr. David Reuben's 1969 edition of "Everything you wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask" (later made into a comedy by Woody Allen). It was a crazy session . . . all he did was ask me questions to see how much of what I said jived with what the book said. Hah. But it looks like Dr Reuben has a new edition of his book out, I suppose I could coach folks on the new gay section, prepare 'em to pass an exam, give 'em some good info to pass "extra credit" or bonus questions (like, "What is a gay person's favorite holiday? -- Halloween" "How many men have you had sex with? -- pick a number" "Who have you had sex with? -- incriminate anyone you dislike, or I could scrounge up folks who will vouch for doing the dirty with ya--for a fee, of course" etc.)
Ya, the whole thing sounds doable . . . it's a new way to make money with sex, too . . . lol . . .
09-17-2004, 08:21 PM #8
Queer Eye for the Military Guy?
09-17-2004, 08:23 PM #9
Ya, a temporary Queer Makeover . . .
For $12 I'll throw in a gay haircut (I am a barber, after all) . . .
09-17-2004, 08:25 PM #10
You could probably make a killing just off the TV rights to that reality show
09-17-2004, 08:40 PM #11
It would have to be done anonymously, or with fake names . . .
But ya, it would be fun . . . and all for a good cause, too!
Well, if any of y'all on this board need a temporary gay "best friend," holler, and we'll get ya banned from military service. They say, "Don't ask, don't tell?" I'll tell 'em, all right.
If they ask ya later why you have a girl friend, just say something like "Jesus cured me." If need be, you can always have a relapse. Or just say you're bisexual.
One thing is certain . . . if Bush is gonna keep looking like he's doing a good job fighting terrorists around the world, it's gonna take more fresh meat. If you're draftable age, you can count on a 4 year paid vacation to Iran . . .
09-17-2004, 10:24 PM #12
That only shows how stupid it is for a single president to try to dismantle the military.
09-18-2004, 09:45 AM #13Originally Posted by Anhydro78
09-18-2004, 10:07 AM #14
I think if any Administration drafts for the war on terror about 2/3 of the people would simply refuse to take part.
09-18-2004, 04:45 PM #15
It looks like I'm the only one here who doesn't believe a draft is coming.......And I will eat my words if it does, so feel free to add this thread to your 'favorites' and call me out on it if it does.
For one thing, Rumsfeld already said there was no draft coming. Granted that doesn't mean a ton, but even if he hadn't said that I doubt there would be one anyway. I can think of no decision by the president that would come under as much criticism as reinstating the draft would. As chico pointed out, people would likely just refuse to participate. Canada's population would double........ You guys might think Bush is dumb, but if you think he is going to let Iraq turn into a repeat of Vietnam you're out of your minds.........So when Rumsfeld says we don't need a draft, and we won't be having one, I'm inclined to believe. Just my $.02.
I can't wait until after the elections when, one way or another, these conspiracy theories will be put to rest.
09-18-2004, 05:49 PM #16Associate Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
I also don't believe that there will be a draft. Obviously it would be VERY unpopular to say the least and politicians are bound by public opinion. If the Republicans institute a draft you can bet they will lose the next election and they know it.
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