10-02-2004, 02:30 AM #1
Iraq I....should we have bailed out Kuwait??
What do you all think??.....I recall some story where Kuwait was screwing Iraq by drilling sideways into their oil fields.....maybe they deserved being invaded.......does anybody know what prompted Saddam to go into Kuwait??
10-02-2004, 03:29 AM #2
Well you can choose two stories to believe from..there's always the coic version wich was 'saddam hates freedom' that many people believe, or u can take it from me sice i work in the oil business and the true reason is as follows:
-The Gulf countries mainly Saudi and Kuwait and the Unites arab emirates pushed saddam to fight Iran back in the 80's because they were scared to death of ayatola khomainy who had overthrown the shah of iran and swore that he would invade and change the 'corrupt' arab countires wich he believed were 'saudi. kuwiat, emirates'.
-The gulf countires didnt want to lose any lives so they worked out a deal with saddam, we will pay whatever it takes and you sacrifice the young iraqi lives in this war, just please stop iran from taking us over.
-Saddam agrees, and is further motivated because if he invades iran he will get more borderline with the sea, making iraqs trade capabilities much better...he invades iran and it costs him lots and lots of money because iran fights back hard. After 4 years iraq got so whooped and lost so many lives they asked iran for a cease fire! but iran fully aware that iraq was losing refused and kept fighting.
-USA steps in!! due to the high cost of the war Iraq and Iran are choosing to buy the cheaper weapons from USSR, the USA doesnt want iran to take over the oil rich countries and doesnt want everyone buying from russia....so they step in and offer saddam chemical/biological weapons and also normal weapons that put him ahead of Iran. Surprisingly Iraq is still getting beat bad by iran, and then the US decides through 'iran contra' to sell iran weapons to fight iraq!!!! so it basically took both sides!! in exchange for interest!! Saddam is stabed in the back by his allies through this and he's still losing bad.
-Late 1980's a cease fire is agreed on, iraq basically surrenders indirectly! over one million lives lost from iraq alone! the economy is at its lowest, the currency is worthless and iraq is in debt!!
Here comes the answer to your question in this part:
-Saudi arabia gave iraq over 45billion dollars in direct aid for the war! saudi appreciates the effort saddam put to protect them so they never ask for it back! The emirates decide to forget about their money too, Kuwait on the other hand decide they want their money back!! so in a time iraq is tottaly doing bad in..kuwait starts asking for its money back..about 3-4billion dollars. Iraq doesnt have it, and doesnt think it should pay them since they just spent almost 10years fighting to protect kuwait!! Iraq sais no money for u..and infact we would like money to help us out we are screwed in our economy.
-Kuwait responds by selling the 3-4billion dollar 'loan' to a swiss bank wich takes international court means to get them money back from iraq!! also Kuwait drills horizontal wells near the border of iraq in an attempt to get tehir money back through oil!!
-Iraq is poor and desperate so they turn to their oil wells near the border and guess what? they are dry!!! another few billion dollars gone because kuwait screwed them over! and the swiss bank sends a 'collection letter' to iraq.....
-Saddam is furious, he's been double-boned by kuwait and to add to this iraq always believed that kuwait was part of iraq sperated by british colonization, so he calls up the US embassy an sais 'were gonna invade kuwait' and the US embassy sais 'dont involve us in your business with kuwait!
-Saddam invades kuwait, they pissed off the wrong guy and he takes them over, no one cares untill the runaway kuwait leaders go to the US and make bargain oil contracts if kuwait is returned....the US agrees and in the news makes it seem like a humanitarian issue...and lets not forget the main phrase 'protecting out interests'
Hope this answers your question
10-02-2004, 11:24 AM #3Originally Posted by KAEW44
whoa.....man oh man.....what a story......I was suspicious of that whole deal.....what you say makes total sense
10-02-2004, 11:53 AM #4Originally Posted by KAEW44
10-02-2004, 12:24 PM #5
Easy on the conspiracy theories guys.......
KAEW44: Where did you get this info?
10-02-2004, 12:30 PM #6
Excellent explanation KAEW44.
10-02-2004, 12:32 PM #7Originally Posted by KAEW44
This is not a conspiracy theory and can be easily proved with a little research on your part. In fact, the ayatollah Khomeini’s family owns a mansion here in (Beverly Hills) CA still as part of the U.S. protecting Khomeini and his family at the time.
10-02-2004, 12:36 PM #8Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
I hope it isn't pumping gas a the corner gas station, just joking KAEW44u
Originally Posted by KAEW44u
10-02-2004, 12:39 PM #9Originally Posted by Fat Guy
10-02-2004, 01:15 PM #10Originally Posted by Bigen12
..............I also find it interesting that it was the anti-Bush people that were so accepting of this story without questioning it at all. So if somone says something you agree with it must be true, right guys?
Last edited by UrbanLegend; 10-03-2004 at 07:39 PM.
10-02-2004, 02:21 PM #11Associate Member
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- Aug 2004
It actually sounds plausible to me, but I too would need to see your sources and do research on my own. There are statements you make that I know to be true, others I do not know to be true, so I wonder about the connections you make between them. Just like the show Connections on PBS, you can make connections between mining diamonds and the invention of force air air conditioning. Doesn't mean they actually are connected.
I know the troops that went into Kuwait and Iraq did it to liberate the Kuwaiti people. The ransacking and vandalism done in Kuwait was unbelievable. After the war was over I was with the units that established Camp Doha outside Kuwait City. It was basically a complex of warehouses that businesses used to store stuff. There were toilets that had been battered and broken. Sinks torn off the wall. If it was glass it was broken. Iraqi soldiers apparently ate a lot because there was human feces everywhere. Papers covered the floors inches thick, and anything that was not bolted down had been thrown around and destroyed. Even the stuff that was bolted down was battered and broken. If it was breakable, it was broken. The troops that did this were VERY pissed and bent on not leaving a single thing usable. It definitely seemed personal.
Interesting theory though.
10-02-2004, 04:29 PM #12
There is no conspiracy in what i said, its basically exactly what happened, very little is said about the conflict between iran and iraq, the reason is that since a war was faught against saddam, u have to say that 'he invaded his neighbours' to make him look bad to the public, but go back to the late 1970's and you will see that saddam was a good friend of the US and the Gulf arab countries because he wasnt invading a neighbour...he was using the lives of young iraqi men in order to rid the US and the gulf states of Khomani......Before khomani there was a shah of iran, and relations with iran were very good!! but the Khomani regime saw the shah as a traitor and a puppet for western governments...thats why Khomani overthrew the iran government and took over with his strict shiat clerics...and he said clearly and directly that its time to militarily overthrow all puppet governments...wich to him was every oil producing arab country....the sheiks in the Gulf were shaking in fear because they didnt have any military might....and the US was angry because Iran was lost as an ally and the other allies were at risk!
So what to do now? go to war with Iran? thats not necessary because they are too far away and they arent a risk to the US...beacuse in 1970's iran didnt have long range missiles or nuclear abilites.......so another option would be to push a strong arab country with a sunni government to whoop iran...and Iraq was the best choice because Saddam husseing was already an enemy of shiat muslims since he was opressing them and fighting their uprisings in Iraq...so he had enough hatred and incentive to go send young iraqi's to fight for him, and lets not forget about 70billion dollars in aid from the gulf countries. The conclusion is that the poor iraqi young soldiers took one for the team just so other oil rich arab nations canlive free and live rich without worrying about Iran forces pointing guns in their faces.
Now some are asking me for sources! and talkign about conspiracy! well if i had read all this info i gave in some 'conspiracy' article then i woudl just give u the name or link to that article...but i didnt need to read any of it because i lived through this entire story because oil business is someting that stays in the family and me and my family have been working in the gulf countries since 1977..i was born a few years after but lived my entire life there, came back here to go to college and then went back to work there again...and i saw all of this happen first hand and saw what happened. The reason soem of you think its conspiracy is because u havent heard it before...but what have u really researched about this topic before? i dotn think very much at all!! u only hear about these things in the news when the US is directly involved....Iraq and Iran are at war for 8years..how much coverage was on the news? none! thats why u dont have a clue about it.
Iraq invades kuwait...they tell u it happened..but did anyone do anything ? no ! not untill the kuwait sheiks make a visit here and saudi arabia confrims that they will pick up the tab of this war!! beacase saudis are afraid they will be next!! Thats when the US forces spring into action....now saddam needs to be stopped!! now that we know who's paying for it.
I am a patriotic guy, and i do believe saddam was a crappy guy because he let his own people die in that war because of bad military decisions he made, and i am even more mad that the idiot couldnt win the war even with WMD's that were given to him and 70Billion dollars cash to finance his army!! So he basically wasted eveyones time and money and lets not forget 1million iraqi young lives!! yes that is a criminal right there....but the even bigger criminals were the kuwait leaders because they never needed their 4billion back!! Kuwait was at its peak success in 1990 with a booming economy and excellent oil sales, but their seiks decided to be greedy and force the money back from a guy they cant face militarily!!!
Even when the US told Kuwait leaders that satelite images show saddams army is on your borders!!! the kuwait sheiks wire transfered their money and all left kuwait the night before!!! They made a run for it and let their people take the worst murder/torture/raping/stealing from an army that has just come off a rough war and were literally starving!!
to me it didnt matter who the US helped in that war because the governments of both sides were criminals. Or let me put it in words todays generation can realte to : They hated Freedom
Selling the loan off to a swiss bank was the first insertion kuwait did to saddam, then stealing his oil was the second penetration from the back....and i forgot to mention in my first post the final oral penetration they decided to give him....Kuwait and the UAE increased their oil production so drastically that they single handedly lowered the price of oil so much..that saddams oil could never beenough to rebuild his recovering country!!!
My opinion....Kuwait deserved it! Not the people of kuwait because its not the poor peoples fault, but the government
Last edited by KAEW44; 10-02-2004 at 04:49 PM.
10-02-2004, 05:30 PM #13
While a lot of it sounds reasonable, and consists of things I have heard before, there are a lot of parts that are foreign to me........namely, the conspiracy between Kuwait and Iraq and the "real" reason for Suddam invading.......So the fact that you can't provide any evidence, or tell where to look about such things makes me doubt it. It sounds more like you heard bunch of biased talk over there, which is why you think 'Kuwait deserved it.' Of course, it could also be me over here that heard the biased talk but until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm going to believe what I have heard all my life in regards to the Gulf War.......
10-02-2004, 05:41 PM #14
10-02-2004, 07:48 PM #15Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
That's awesome.......the pictures of Rumsfeld chumming it up with Saddam should be plastered all over the US......this admin is soooo crooked.
10-02-2004, 08:41 PM #16
Thanks Causasian, that summed it up, if someone still thinks my argument is conspiracy and made up then go look yourself in the mirror and say "saddam invaded kuwait because he hates freedom, and we had to fight him because he hated freedom".
When i was a kid i wouldnt have bought a comic if the evil villian was said to have hated freedom because even in fantasy thats pathetic....
HE HATES FREEDOM!!!
10-02-2004, 08:55 PM #17Originally Posted by KAEW44
Well, Saddam DOES hate freedom (of his own people), but thats not what anyone has said in regards to why he invaded Kuwait........I was under the impression that it was becauase Iraq's economy was doing poorly from fighting Iran, so he wanted Kuwait's oil feilds.
The picture that was posted does not relate to what I brought up for my reasons for not beleiving what you posted. I was talking about the conspiracy regarding Kuwait and Iraq (the swiss bank money loan, etc) and the reason that Saddam invated......the photo relates to neither.
10-02-2004, 10:55 PM #18Originally Posted by UrbanLegend
I have seen several recent history channel and general news documentries that all state that the reson saddam invaded was because of the poor economy after the war and kuwait would be an easy money for grabs. That story does make things a lot less complicated and easy to understand.....
But in reality the other story wich isnt told in the west...is actually solid in the middle east, even kuwait-made documentraies about the gulf war clearly state and dont deny that they were the only country to pressure iraq for money back and selling the loan off to a swiss bank, and the story about the horizontal drilling that stole iraqs oil...that isnt a made up story because i had to study it as a case-study when i went to university in TEXAS!!! Yes thats part of the topics in the degree plans taught in texas petroleum engineering colleges!! I learned this here...not a biased opinion from the middle east. They not only drilled into his oil fields by drilling into an angle underground...but they purposely drained it really fast so that they can make as much money a spossibel before he found out.
10-03-2004, 12:29 PM #19Associate Member
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The whole thing conspiracy theory is completely overblown. Yes, Kuwait did do some horizontal drilling, but the amount of oil lost was insignificant, not enough to go to war over. It was nothing more than an attempt to gain power. Saddam demanded Kuwait relieve Iraq of its debt because Saddam believed the war, which he began, with Iran was on behalf of all Arab states, so no debt should be applied. Most people actually believed Saddam was just bluffing the invasion at first to extort money. Saddam called their bluff, and invaded. By invading Kuwait, he would have control of 20% of the world's proven oil reserves at that time. The eventual goal of invading Saudi Arabia was next, after which he thought the Arab world would idolize him, as he did with Nebuchadnezzar. Saddam stooped so low as to use the Kuwaiti zoo animals for target practice and food.
I'm no fan of D. Rumsfield either, but the picture leaves a lot of context out. It is similar to the picture of Madeline Albright and Kim Jong Il holding up glasses of champagne together.
10-03-2004, 05:34 PM #20Originally Posted by carbs-rule
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