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  1. #1
    physio_sport is offline Banned
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    Top PM aide: Gaza plan aims to freeze the peace process

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485491.html

    Top PM aide: Gaza plan aims to freeze the peace process

    By Ari Shavit


    "The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process," Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's senior adviser Dov Weisglass has told Haaretz.

    "And when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress."

    Weisglass, who was one of the initiators of the disengagement plan, was speaking in an interview with Haaretz for the Friday Magazine.

    "The disengagement is actually formaldehyde," he said. "It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians."

    Asked why the disengagement plan had been hatched, Weisglass replied: "Because in the fall of 2003 we understood that everything was stuck. And although by the way the Americans read the situation, the blame fell on the Palestinians, not on us, Arik [Sharon] grasped that this state of affairs could not last, that they wouldn't leave us alone, wouldn't get off our case. Time was not on our side. There was international erosion, internal erosion. Domestically, in the meantime, everything was collapsing. The economy was stagnant, and the Geneva Initiative had gained broad support. And then we were hit with the letters of officers and letters of pilots and letters of commandos [refusing to serve in the territories]. These were not weird kids with green ponytails and a ring in their nose with a strong odor of grass. These were people like Spector's group [Yiftah Spector, a renowned Air Force pilot who signed the pilot's letter]. Really our finest young people."

    Weisglass does not deny that the main achievement of the Gaza plan is the freezing of the peace process in a "legitimate manner."

    "That is exactly what happened," he said. "You know, the term `peace process' is a bundle of concepts and commitments. The peace process is the establishment of a Palestinian state with all the security risks that entails. The peace process is the evacuation of settlements, it's the return of refugees, it's the partition of Jerusalem. And all that has now been frozen.... what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did."

    Sharon, he said, could also argue "honestly" that the disengagement plan was "a serious move because of which, out of 240,000 settlers, 190,000 will not be moved from their place."

    The full interview will appear on Friday.

  2. #2
    physio_sport is offline Banned
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    http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...s&section=news

    Israel: Palestinian State Shelved with U.S. Blessing
    Wed Oct 6, 2004 12:12 PM ET

    By Mark Heinrich
    JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel's plan to withdraw from some occupied territory aims to rule out a Palestinian state indefinitely, with full U.S. approval, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's chief of staff said on Wednesday.

    Dov Weisglass's remarks on the move to give up the Gaza Strip next year while keeping large chunks of the West Bank surprised U.S. diplomats, who said Washington remained dedicated to a "road map" peace plan for a Palestinian state.

    Sharon, wary of alienating Israel's key ally, said later he still backed the "road map" effectively dismissed by Weisglass.

    Palestinians, whose calls for road map talks have been spurned by Israel's ruling right, condemned Weisglass's message.

    "I believe he has revealed the true intentions of Sharon. We told the quartet (of U.S.-led peace mediators) eight months ago that the Gaza plan was designed to undermine their road map," said Negotiations Minister Saeb Erekat said.

    Weisglass's message, coinciding with a big Israeli offensive in Gaza, could help Sharon win over f*****ight foes opposed to abandoning the territory and challenging his grip on power.

    "The significance of our (unilateral) disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process. It supplies the formaldehyde necessary so there is no political process with Palestinians," Weisglass said in an interview published in the Haaretz daily.

    "When you freeze the process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state ... Effectively, this whole package called a Palestinian state, with all it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda," Weisglass said.

    Weisglass said Palestinian leaders' failure to stop militant attacks including suicide bombings was to blame for the diplomatic vacuum. Palestinians blame Israeli offensives as well as continued settlement activity in the West Bank.

    Weisglass ruled out talks on critical issues such as Palestinian refugees, borders and the status of Jerusalem in the foreseeable future. "And all this with authority and permission, all with a presidential blessing."

    President Bush in April endorsed Sharon's plan to pull 8,000 settlers from tiny Gaza in 2005 while keeping most of 230,000 settlers in place in the West Bank, displacing the "road map."
    Bush declared that Palestinians cannot expect to obtain statehood unless they stamp out militant attacks on Israel.

    Weisglass said: "What I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns."

    In an apparent effort to contain damage from Weisglass's blunt remarks, Sharon reaffirmed a formal commitment to the road map, three weeks after saying Israel was "not following" it.

    "(It is) the only plan that can permit progress toward a durable political settlement with the Palestinians," he said.

    "But in the absence of a Palestinian partner, we have initiated disengagement ... to improve Israel's ability to defend its citizens," the former general said in a statement.

    U.S. diplomats reiterated Washington's position that "disengagement" could help kickstart the road map.

    "We feel disengagement, if it is done with international support, has the potential to move both parties closer to realizing the president's vision of two states living side by side in peace and security," said a U.S. embassy spokeswoman.

    Weisglass told Israel Radio later he did not mean Israel would never negotiate with Palestinians, only that it would not do so until they cracked down on "terrorism." Otherwise, he said, a Palestinian state would only endanger Israel.

    Palestinian leaders see "disengagement" as a ruse to dash their dream of a state by confining 2.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank to patches of land separated by settlements.

    They fear Sharon feels free to do as he pleases given Bush's preoccupation with a re-election campaign in which he will need Jewish votes, and with a troubled U.S.-led occupation of Iraq.

    Israeli armored forces stormed into northern Gaza a week ago in a bid to smash militants responsible for rocket fire into Israel. Seventy-five Palestinians have been killed, 30 of them civilians, medics say. Three Israelis have been killed.

    (Additional reporting by Wafa Amr in the West Bank, Nidal al-Mughrabi in Gaza, Matt Spetalnick in Jerusalem)

  3. #3
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    I'll tell you what I think about the current situation. I think Hamas were crazy to continue to launch attacks against Israel, absolutely stone crazy mad. Why?, because like the PLO in the late 70's in Lebanon they must have known Israel would invade and if the IDF were determined Hamas would suffer a huge defeat.

    What have they acheived?.. Nothing constructive for their cause. Now the IDF have set up a 10km deep security zone as they did in Lebanon, and as everyone of Israel's neighbours have discovered to their cause. An attack on its borders only serve to strenghten its borders. I believe when the IDF withdraws it will leave a totally defeated Hamas and a border as tight as a camels ass in a sand storm.

    The situation in the camp in the media at the moment (sorry its name escapes me) is crazy. In a 1 square mile zone with over 100,000 civilians Hamas continues to launch rockets into Israel, so when the IDF kills innocents don't go crying to anyone about IDF killings, ask Hamas to stop using 100,000 human shields for protection, COWARDS.

  4. #4
    physio_sport is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    I'll tell you what I think about the current situation. I think Hamas were crazy to continue to launch attacks against Israel, absolutely stone crazy mad. Why?, because like the PLO in the late 70's in Lebanon they must have known Israel would invade and if the IDF were determined Hamas would suffer a huge defeat.

    What have they acheived?.. Nothing constructive for their cause. Now the IDF have set up a 10km deep security zone as they did in Lebanon, and as everyone of Israel's neighbours have discovered to their cause. An attack on its borders only serve to strenghten its borders. I believe when the IDF withdraws it will leave a totally defeated Hamas and a border as tight as a camels ass in a sand storm.

    The situation in the camp in the media at the moment (sorry its name escapes me) is crazy. In a 1 square mile zone with over 100,000 civilians Hamas continues to launch rockets into Israel, so when the IDF kills innocents don't go crying to anyone about IDF killings, ask Hamas to stop using 100,000 human shields for protection, COWARDS.
    its not like israel has not been firing missiles into palestine.
    personally i think hamas and groups like that are very good for palestine becuase it always scares the zionists becuase they know its very difficult for them to take over palestinian land without millitry support.
    if groups like hamas didn't israelis would be deep into palestinian land and palestinians would be pushed out to other countries.

    i think you missed the point of the news israel basically getting too cockey and starting to reveal its plan to steal parts of palestine.
    israel is not interested in peace and has never been. this gaza pull out is a scam and a trick to trick the world into thinking israel wants peace and israel wants to give palestinians a homeland but this is a lie and israel wants no peace with anyone from the river nile to the Euphrates river.

  5. #5
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by physio_sport
    israel wants no peace with anyone from the river nile to the Euphrates river.
    And I bet you believe their flag is based on that believe too.. That the two blue bar's represent the Euphrates river and the Nile, with the Star of David representing Jewish pocession of all the lands in between?.

  6. #6
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    The Bible says the descendants of Abraham will have the land in between the Nile and the Euphrates.

    This prophecy has already been accomplished, because Arabs and Jews are the descendants of Abraham.

    But extremist Jews and Christians say Arabs arent the descendants of Abraham, because they are illegimate children of Abraham because of his affair with Hagar.

    I have a perfect plan for the Arabs to fight Israel. They should all attack Israel at once. Knowing the Arab military power they would probably loose this battle. Then let Israel occupy vast lands on the Arab world. Then launch a guerilla war in the large parts. Israel will not be able to occupy these large parts of the Arab world. They will drain their resources and loose alot in guerilla tactics.

    Eventually Israel will loose.

    This is my plan.

  7. #7
    CAUSASIAN's Avatar
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    In that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: 'Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates

    But I do belive Arabs and Muslims in General should be aware of this plan, and try to do everything to defend against it.

    And BOUNCER the flag thing you mentioned could be true, your acting like its so unbelivable.

    Here was the flag they proposed for the New Iraq.



    The new design's crescent represents Islam, while the blue lines are meant to be the Tigris and Euphrates rivers and the yellow strip stands for the Kurdish minority.

    It could be possible.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3660663.stm

  8. #8
    Rak_Ani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN

    And BOUNCER the flag thing you mentioned could be true, your acting like its so unbelivable.

    It could be true? If you're so after truth, and claim to be speaking facts, why don't you make that little effor to actually find out if it's true?
    Research it, and get back to us with the answer. I'd love to know what you come up with.

  9. #9
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
    It could be true? If you're so after truth, and claim to be speaking facts, why don't you make that little effor to actually find out if it's true?
    Research it, and get back to us with the answer. I'd love to know what you come up with.
    Could this be the answer me wonders

    http://www.stateofisrael.com/flag/


    Israeli Flag




    The flag of Israel is based on the design of the tallit, the prayer shawl worn by Jewish men (and by some women in Reform and Conservative congregations) during certain services. The tallit is worn during all morning services. In addition, it is worn on the eve of Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. The tallit is also worn when reading the Torah during Shabbat (Sabbath) afternoon services and by the person leading evening services. (Jews pray three times a day: the morning service is called shacharit; the afternoon service is called minchah; and the evening service is called ma'ariv or aravit.) There are two basic traditions regarding who wears the tallit. According to one tradition, any Jewish adult should wear the tallit (at the appropriate times). A Jewish adult is one who is thirteen years of age and older (a Bar Mitzvah, or "Son of the Commandments.") According to another tradition, only married Jews wear the tallit. In addition to the exterior tallit, there is also a tallit katan ("small tallit"), which pious Jews wear all day under their clothes.

    Because the tallit is one of the most recognizable symbols of the Jewish people, it was chosen to be the basis of the flag. (Indeed, in coming up with a design for the flag, the early Zionists came to the realization that the Jewish People had had a flag all along - the tallit - and there was thus no need to design a flag from scratch.) In the center of the flag is the Magen David, or "Shield of [King] David," better known in English as the "Star of David" or "Jewish Star," another recognizable Jewish symbol.


  10. #10
    Rak_Ani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Could this be the answer me wonders

    http://www.stateofisrael.com/flag/


    Israeli Flag




    The flag of Israel is based on the design of the tallit, the prayer shawl worn by Jewish men (and by some women in Reform and Conservative congregations) during certain services. The tallit is worn during all morning services. In addition, it is worn on the eve of Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. The tallit is also worn when reading the Torah during Shabbat (Sabbath) afternoon services and by the person leading evening services. (Jews pray three times a day: the morning service is called shacharit; the afternoon service is called minchah; and the evening service is called ma'ariv or aravit.) There are two basic traditions regarding who wears the tallit. According to one tradition, any Jewish adult should wear the tallit (at the appropriate times). A Jewish adult is one who is thirteen years of age and older (a Bar Mitzvah, or "Son of the Commandments.") According to another tradition, only married Jews wear the tallit. In addition to the exterior tallit, there is also a tallit katan ("small tallit"), which pious Jews wear all day under their clothes.

    Because the tallit is one of the most recognizable symbols of the Jewish people, it was chosen to be the basis of the flag. (Indeed, in coming up with a design for the flag, the early Zionists came to the realization that the Jewish People had had a flag all along - the tallit - and there was thus no need to design a flag from scratch.) In the center of the flag is the Magen David, or "Shield of [King] David," better known in English as the "Star of David" or "Jewish Star," another recognizable Jewish symbol.


    Just one clarification. Women don't wear the Talit. Only men do.

  11. #11
    physio_sport is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    And I bet you believe their flag is based on that believe too.. That the two blue bar's represent the Euphrates river and the Nile, with the Star of David representing Jewish pocession of all the lands in between?.
    i don't know what there flag means and it doesn't really matter either.

    what does matter is that certain people in israel are screwing around with the lives of the innocent civillians in israel and in palestine like some sort of computer game.
    bouncer you cannot deny there are people in the likud party and in the israel goverment positions that are working to steal the land between nile-euphrates.
    and those idiots are making life hell for the people of palestine and the people of israel most of which want to free palestine from what i understand from reading an israeli survay which was done in israel.

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