Thread: Unions are brainwashing members
11-02-2004, 01:19 PM #1
Unions are brainwashing membersOriginally Posted by Fat Guy
11-02-2004, 02:21 PM #2
IMHO, if employees want to band together to bargain over wages & working conditions with their employer, they should be free to do so. And employers should not be free to interfere with that right.
But political indoctrination aint' cool . . . I got it from the managers where I used to work, and union people evidently get it from that side, too. Both sides mess up on this issue, but it's unlikely either side will ever play fair. So, all that can be done is let individual employees endure what they can't change (although it's safer to complain to a union than it is to an employer), and stay educated on the issues, and vote their conscience.
11-02-2004, 02:42 PM #3
my friend says every time he goes to the union hall or to his school he gets hammered by people who ram anti-bush and for kerry down his throat
11-02-2004, 02:46 PM #4Associate Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
I agree with Tock one hundred percent. Unions are fine, but not when they are government backed or required. Jimmy Hoffa Jr. now sounds like Terry McCauliffe.
11-02-2004, 02:47 PM #5
it is crazy
11-02-2004, 03:03 PM #6Originally Posted by carbs-rule
Ya, but when employers play dirty tricks or intimidate employees into not unionizing, then that's when the cops need to step in and keep things on the up-and-up.
There are plenty of companies that do nothing all day long but try to break up unions
and they lie, cheat, intimidate, etc, do everything they can to interfere with employee's right to band together to bargain for wages and working conditions as a group. Of course, some union organizers do the same thing for their interests, and that's not cool either.
IMHO, unions are a necessary hassle in many companies. I used to work in one that needed a union . . . not for $$$, but to get the management to comply with basic safety rules. I asked a bunch of co-workers if they would vote for a union, and the most of them said they would be afraid to, because the company would only close the plant down, and send our jobs to its other plants in the Phillipines. So . . . everyone else kept quiet, I kept filing OSHA complaints, and eventually got laid off, and now I'm fixin' to open up a barber shop.
C'est la vie . . . at least it's not a beauty shop . . . women take too much time and effort to make them look good. Men, they're in and out of the barber chair in 15 minutes, and they look great.
11-02-2004, 04:21 PM #7
unions are good, but not when they brainwash, i think we can all agree. they told my friend if bush is re-elected there will be no more unions. that is almost the dumbest thing i ever heard
11-02-2004, 04:58 PM #8Originally Posted by nickrizz
A case of overstatement.
Should have said something like, "The Bush administration will continue to support management's interests over employee's interests."
11-02-2004, 05:09 PM #9
You wouldnt believe what one of my Union Member freinds has his union people telling him at his meetings. I live in the country. These guys tell these country boys that specific Democratic canidates are Pro-Gun, Pro Lilfe, ect... They describe the entire republican platform to them and tell them its the Democrates agenda. They know better than to try to tell these good ole country boys that the Democrates are against guns and for abortion, ect...
11-02-2004, 05:22 PM #10Originally Posted by Anhydro78
Lots of craziness happens on both sides.
Employers are legally allowed to require employees to sit through anti-union propaganda sessions where they tell them that if the Union wins, costs will go up and (they can't say, "You'll lose your jobs," but they can say) other non-unionized competitors will have lower overhead and be able to sell their stuff cheaper, and blah blah blah . . .
Since most people aren't skeptical enough to double-check what authority figures tell them, they usually swallow it, and end up voting against taking advantage of their right to bargain for wages and working conditions as a group.
That's the way life is . . . one group of people usually takes advantage of another group, and many times the folks on the bottom are convinced the folks on top are really looking out for their best interests.
Ya, the Libertarians look better and better all the time . . .
11-02-2004, 08:55 PM #11
Unions have overstayed their welcome IMO..not only issues like nickrizz pointed out, but for they way they operate and attemtp to turn workers into nonworkers-hopes to gain money for for being on the payroll- no longer do unions advocate an honest days work for an honest days pay! I will give the teachers unions and policemens union their credit- these orgs keep these folks out of alot of trouble- but steelworkers, autoworkers, contruction workers unions- have ruined American work ethic and its products!
11-02-2004, 09:38 PM #12Originally Posted by BamaSlamma
I worked for UPS for a while, and I've never worked so hard in my entire life. And they still work hard, and they're unionized. I've seen non-union companies where employees sit around and watch clocks. The difference is in the management.
Companies either have smart managers that know how to make smart business decisions and lead and inspire employees, or they don't. All of you have seen stupid bosses, stupid managers that make stupid decisions--it's those people who make the decisions that make or break a company. Not the employees.
Originally Posted by BamaSlamma
Look at the US auto industry as an example. If you're old enough to remember the stuff the American Motor Company (AMC) used to put out (Gremlins, AMC Matador, the Pacer) you know they were wretchedly unreliable beasts calculated to live two years, at which time the owners were expected to trade them in for newer models, and the used cars were cannibalized to keep the others limping along until they were put out of their owner's misery at the Atomic Auto Crusher. And the other Big 3 automaker's products were not much more reliable, either.
And who's fault was that? Workers? or the folks who approved the final designs--the managers?
Well, when the Japanese started selling their cars in the US, they made steady inroads by offering reliable products with parts that fit much better, because they were better designed with parts with tighter tolerances.
As time went on, Japanese opened plants in the US using the same US labor that the American companies were using, and turned out consistently better products.
GM opened up their Saturn plant as an experiment using a lot of the Japanese management methods (with emphasis on Taguchi and Deming quality methods), and their product quality went up, too. Using US labor.
It is my opinion that American workers are second to none. Americans are more than capable of creating the world's finest products and services. But American Management not only sucks, it sucks chancred penises. They get paid way too much (multiples of what corporations pay foreign CEOs & managers). They get too much $$$ when they screw up and get fired (usually millions). They're the ones responsible for deciding what products to make, which to squash, and which jobs go overseas, whether or not to move their headquarters to Bermuda so they can avoid US taxes, the ones to decide whether or not to sucessfully manage their quality---ultimately, they are the ones responsible for the sucess or failure of their companies. They have complete control of the people, the technology, the resources, and have the responsibility to figure out how to make everything work together.
So . . . when a company fails, it isn't because of the workers. It's because the mangement failed to anticipate and manage the stuff it had to work with.
Ya, Americans kick ass. American management, compared to foreign managers, ain't so good. Therein lies the problem.
11-02-2004, 09:43 PM #13
I know a person in management in U.P.S. Remember the strike they had with the teamsters? It was all the packers and drivers that are in that union. That strike main objective was to put a U.P.S. retirement account in the hands of the Union. This account is so big that the role over intrest on the account made it to where U.P.S. didnt have to put a dime into it. Now they have to pay for every penny of their employees retirement fund. The entire deal was just to put that money making account into the hands of the Union. The surface reason was to increase benifits to part time employees. First it was ran by Jimmy Hoffa and was a part of organized crime. One of my freinds dad was a Teamster back in the 70's. He ran drugs for them back then. He was just a guy in the union that was forced into doing this with his pregnant wife. They even tried to kill him at one point having him pushed off some sort of crane. Cutting his arm completely off and breaking his back.
11-02-2004, 10:06 PM #14Originally Posted by Anhydro78
Recall Enron? Looks like those managers screwed up by a total of $100 Billion. Think the Teamsters's crime ever matched the economic horrors produced by the managers of that one single company?
11-02-2004, 10:33 PM #15
The concept of a Union is good the problem is that they are more like a buisness that leaches on another company. If they where only created for the workers instead of to make money, I would agree with Unions alot more.
11-02-2004, 10:51 PM #16
Actually, a Union is a group of employees who get together to bargain to sell its labor as a group to the employer. If they had the expertise to manage all the details themselves, that would be one thing, but very few can do that. To start one and keep it going, ya gotta know all the federal and state rules and regulations and pay lawyers to file forms & negotiate and etc, and that's where the business organizations like the AFL-CIO come handy. They're expert and experienced in this stuff, and can get forms filed and do hard-nosed negotiation with intimidating employers (and their lawyers), and can provide advice on what to do to keep it running smoothly. There's an awful lot that goes into just the administrative stuff. And then ya gotta keep union members informed of stuff, and deal with reasonable and unreasonable employee-employer conflicts. It's a lot of work, and people being what they are, most abandon the details of unionizing to others, and that's where things can go wrong.
Ya, when union members stay active and involved, crooks can't get a foothold. I know folks who need one just to protect their health and safety, but too bad for them, it ain't gonna happen. Not here in Texas.
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