11-09-2004, 12:59 PM #1
THE ROVING EYE
The real fury of Fallujah
By Pepe Escobar
"The Romans create a desolation and call it peace."
"The enemy has a face. It is Satan's. He is in Fallujah, and we are going to destroy him."
- Colonel Gary Brandl, US Marines
President George W Bush is "reaching out" to Fallujah - the first major foreign policy initiative of the second Bush administration. The name: Operation Phantom Fury. The strategy: precision-strike democracy. The message: kill them all, and let God sort them out.
Former US intelligence asset turned prime minister without a parliament Iyad Allawi - widely known in Baghdad as "Saddam without a moustache" - has got himself another title: the Butcher of Fallujah. On Sunday, before co-launching with the Pentagon the biggest urban war since the storming of Hue in 1968 Vietnam, Allawi installed de facto martial law in Iraq for 60 days. Historians and political scientists are breathlessly trying to explain to the world that no democratic election can possibly be preceded by a state of siege.
To add insult to injury, Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld is saying that Allawi is responsible for all major military decisions regarding Fallujah: only the Bible Belt may be gullible enough to believe that an Iraqi civilian without an army rules over the Pentagon. So it's the Vietnam tragedy all over again, replayed as farce - a biblical crusade in Mesopotamia. Those who learned their lessons from history know full well what happened after Hue.
The new Hue, or the new Grozny
The Pentagon spin machine is selling Operation Phantom Fury as a battle of good against evil to root out "terrorists" in the "militant stronghold" of Fallujah. It is selling war on civilians as "the liberation of the people of Fallujah" as well as the next step towards implementing "democracy" in Iraq. These are outright lies. Fallujans insist they are not harboring al-Qaeda fighters, or even the elusive Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The Pentagon insists that Fallujah is the headquarters of Zarqawi's al-Tawhid wal-Jihad (Unity and Holy War) movement. So if there's no Zarqawi - if he really does exist, he has already left the building, sources tell Asia Times Online - and no al-Qaeda, what's the point of unleashing this fury?
The code name betrays it all: the real motive for turning Fallujah into Grozny is revenge. In the first siege of Fallujah in April, the mujahideen inflicted a severe defeat on the Americans. Fallujah had already become the symbol of the Iraqi resistance after Marines killed 15 civilians in May 2003 - when the city even had a pro-American mayor. Last April, up to 1,000 Iraqis were killed, blown up, burnt or shot by the Americans - two thirds of them civilians, mostly women and children. Now, one of the first targets of Phantom Fury was a Fallujah hospital, qualified by the Pentagon as "a center of propaganda". The fact is, in April hospital doctors were carefully detailing to the world media the hundreds of innocent civilians killed by the American assault. Now, under a strategy of what could almost be called collective punishment, the hospital has become a military target.
No images, no sound
This is the ultimate asymmetric war - ultra high-tech F-16s, Cobra and Apache helicopters, AC-130 gunships, tanks, Bradleys and awesome firepower against a bunch of youngsters in tracksuits and trainers with mortars and rocket-propelled grenades. A few hundred of them are Arabs - Saudis, Yemenis, Jordanians, Tunisians - the new generation of the jihad diaspora. But the majority are Iraqi fighters, many of them former or retired military officers, engaged in a war of national liberation. The Pentagon is pitting between 2,000 to 2,500 fighters in Fallujah and environs along with another 10,000 Iraqi civilians against at least 12,000 troops - four US military brigades and one 500-strong Iraqi brigade, trained by the Marines and included in the American payroll.
Serious fighting rages in al-Guaifi, in the northern part of the city, in the Golan and Military neighborhoods to the east, and in the Industrial and al-Shuhada neighborhoods to the south. The mujahideen, at least for the moment, are holding their positions.
Nobody will know the full extent of the horror inflicted on Fallujah civilians because this is a war micromanaged by the Pentagon - carefully built up for weeks, timed to set off only after the re-election of Bush, and now conducted with a few embedded journalists on the side duly brainwashed by a barrage of propaganda and spin. The Sunni triangle has become so dangerous that independent journalism is out of the question. Thus the absence of war images - apart from Pentagon propaganda videos of Marines under night vision cameras with the faint sound of explosions in the background.
There's no soundtrack to this war. No sound of 2,000-pound bombs falling on rows of houses and followed by relentless wailing, the sound of missiles flying overhead, the sound of prayers and cries of "Allah Akbar!" trying to drown out the fear, the sound of AC-130 Spectre gunships demolishing a whole city block in less than a minute, the sound of bodies hitting the sand targeted by Marine snipers. The only reliable information of what's happening on the ground in Fallujah comes from civilians who have left to Baghdad.
It's a blatant lie to describe a city of 300,000 as a "militant stronghold". Even if there were only 100,000 residents left, most of these, tens of thousands, are civilians, and as usual in any war, they are the most vulnerable: the poor, the elderly, the sick, the ones who could not get way because of fate, and the bravest of the brave - nurses and doctors.
Fallujah from the inside
Senior scholar Sheikh Omar Said identifies three major strands in Fallujah - Sufism, the Muslim Brotherhood and Salafism, all united at the moment against the occupation. The city is being run by the mujahideen shura (council) - led by influential imams and mosque preachers like Abdullah al-Janabi, Zafir al-Obeidi and Omar Hadid.
Fallujah has four main clans: Zawbaa, al-Jamilat, Bu Eisa and al-Mahameda, plus many secondary clans like Tamim, Bani Kabis, al-Fayad, al-Aneen and al-Raween. Most of the clans are Sunni and originally came from the Arab peninsula.
The backbone of Fallujah is Islam and its tribal clans. Bravery is the common staple. Vendetta is a must. People prefer to die than to submit to a foreign invader: it's considered their Islamic duty. More than 20 prominent Saudi scholars recently qualified the resistance as a legitimate right and obligation.
The Fallujah mujahideen shura is a real unifying force. There are no "terrorists" in the midst of these resistance leaders, tribal chiefs and Sunni clerics - only Iraqis fighting a war of national liberation. To counteract Pentagon propaganda, the shura has promised to protect journalists and house them in a "special building". But considering what happened in Kabul in 2001 and Baghdad in 2003, there's every reason to believe the Marines could have an "accident".
The local command in Fallujah is centered in two mosques: Saad ibn Abi Wakkas, run by imam Abdullah al-Janabi, and al-Hadra al-Mohammadiya, run by imam Zafir Al-Obeidi. Janabi controls the mujahideen shura and Obeidi controls the political shura, presided by Sheikh Tarlub Abdel Karim al-Alusi and uniting tribal and religious chiefs and city notables. Tarlub is the de facto political chief of the guerrillas in Fallujah - even though decisions are collective and the word of the imams and the emirs carries enormous power.
Asia Times Online sources in Baghdad close to the resistance in Fallujah confirm that Tarlub was saying as late as last week that the city would have preferred negotiations, but the Americans wanted a war. The sheikh also said that 80% of the youth of Fallujah had joined the resistance, as it would be a shame for their families if they were not committed to defend their city. According to the sheikh, there are more than 1,500 foreign jihadis in town (the Pentagon says they are between 2,000 and 2,500), but no al-Qaeda. The sheikh defends the presence of "the Arabs" - as Iraqis call them: they are "Muslim brothers" who came to help expel the invaders. Many nationalist Iraqis though are angry with the foreigners' presence because, they say, this serves the American strategy of labeling everybody as "terrorists". But in terms of an attack on Fallujah and as far as the Iraqi resistance is concerned, the sheikh was sure that the mujahideen would adapt, retreat and later come back in full force.
What will the world say?
Even before Phantom Fury, American bombing had been killing Fallujah civilians for weeks. Now the Marines are invading hospitals, targeting ambulances and in the next few hours and days may even bomb mosques: so much for capturing Iraqi hearts and minds. The souk in the city center used to be open until noon and still had some food - but this was before Allawi cut off the roads from Fallujah to Baghdad and Ramadi. The hospitals are overflowing, but with no supplies, medicine and only occasional electricity. The brand new Nazzal hospital - funded by Saudi donors - was destroyed last Saturday by two American missiles.
A few days ago, a message from "the mosques of Fallujah" threatened a jihad all over Iraq against the Americans and those who helped them if Fallujah was attacked. A fatwa - approved by top religious authorities in Baghdad - officially proclaiming the jihad may be issued in the next few hours or days, something that would set the whole Sunni triangle on fire and promote even closer collaboration between the jihadis and Iraqi nationalists.
The civilian victims of Phantom Fury can barely count on global public opinion expressing outrage. It didn't happen last April, under the first siege of Fallujah, and it didn't happen last August, when Najaf was attacked. According to a study published by the British medical paper The Lancet, the American invasion and occupation has caused at least 100,000 Iraqi deaths - September 11 dozens of times over. Fallujah may add one more September 11 to the list. More than half of the dead were women and children.
Fallujah as the road to civil war
What will be achieved by turning Fallujah into Grozny? Absolutely nothing positive for the US. History shows that a people fighting a war of national liberation is never easily intimidated. The resistance will melt away and regroup. Top Sunni clerics all over the Sunni triangle and beyond have reminded Iraqis - as if they needed any reminding - that they should help the guerrillas to escape. On the jihadi front, the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades, the group linked to al-Qaeda which has claimed responsibility for the Madrid bombing, has already threatened the US with "unbearable hell" - and did not forget to hold the American electorate responsible for condoning Bush's Phantom Fury-style strategies.
Mohamed Bashar Faidhi, a member of the Sunni Association of Muslim Clerics, promised the powerful association would boycott the January election if Fallujah was attacked. The association - as well as the majority of Iraqis - knows that "Saddam without a moustache" Allawi is alive and in power only because of 137,000 US troops.
On Tuesday, a major Sunni Muslim political party, the Iraqi Islamic party (Hizbul Islami al-Iraqi), quit the interim government and withdrew its single minister from the cabinet in protest against the assault on Fallujah. The Iraqi Islamic party is the Iraqi branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, a Sunni Islamic party well established in the Middle East.
Its members have a long history of oppression under Saddam Hussein's rule. As a result, party leaders went into exile, mostly in London. Immediately after the fall of Saddam, they restored their activities, and somewhat surprisingly adopted a peaceful political struggle to give the US a chance to hand over power to the Iraqi people. This chance has now been lost.
Martial law means in practice a daily curfew, no political meetings and no free press - but the resistance won't go away. The dynamic is inexorable: Sunnis will increasingly view themselves as excluded from the new Iraq as Shi'ites keep gaining power. This is the road for civil war.
There could not be a more tragic exercise in futility than Phantom Fury as Vietnam revisited - to destroy Fallujah in order to "save" it. The new Grozny, filled with rubble, will either become a garrison - with scores of Americans being blown up by roadside bombs - or the resistance will eventually get the city back when the Americans leave. Few Sunni Iraqis will believe this was all about protecting them from "terrorists" and promoting "democracy". Precision-strike democracy is a neo-conservative phantom, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
(Copyright 2004 Asia Times Online Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact firstname.lastname@example.org for information on our sales and syndication policies.)
11-09-2004, 01:09 PM #2
Going into Fallujah was probably the stupidest move so far in the war.
America will surely win this fight, but attacking Fallujah, today, one of the holiest days in Islam, "The Night of Power", and then calling the operation "Operation Al Fajr" which is a Islamic Prayer, is very shrewd.
You will win thousands of Sunni recruits because of this attack on Fallujah, and the elections will fail. Mark my words.
11-09-2004, 01:16 PM #3
Badger you have finally outed yourself completely as a well educated well versed Muslim front man posing as a Christian. It took me too long to figure that out. But you are shrewd. Kudos.
If "heros" want to keep getting slaughtered in the name of Allah I'm sure they not be let down by the American Military. It is not impressive or admirable to enter into a fight and die knowing you have no chance just to make a statement..... it is stupidity.
11-09-2004, 01:16 PM #4
David was stupid in fighting Goliath?
11-09-2004, 01:18 PM #5
These are not Biblical times nor are they Biblical figures.
11-09-2004, 01:20 PM #6
There are many instances in which the weak overcome the powerful. GOD even in the Bible says that, he will help the weak against the mighty.
11-09-2004, 01:22 PM #7
I agree but common sense must prevail in all situations as well.
11-09-2004, 01:38 PM #8
Muslim front man.......now that IS funny......
I just don't like bullies.......and that is what we are right now.........
GW is one of those sniveling little pussies that would have somebody else fight for him on the playground........that's why he was such a cutie in his cheer outfit.......
11-09-2004, 01:41 PM #9Originally Posted by 1victor
11-09-2004, 02:45 PM #10Originally Posted by Badgerman
hey badger i forgot who coined the phrase but our so called "war president" suits it well. "those who have never seen war want it"
11-09-2004, 05:27 PM #11
Its the second day of combat you moron??? What did you think it would happen in like 4 hours... Get a life badger
11-09-2004, 05:38 PM #12
Badger, so you are not a Muslim? You are denying that? I don't care but you seem to have the same agenda. I don't like bullys either and I fight my own fights, always have. Hussein wasn't a bully? Caucasian and others have stated it was a good thing to remove him, you disagree?
I have stated before you won't tell me where you stand. I have seen you quote verses from the Bible but what does that mean? What is your political and religious afflilation in clear terms? I think it's only fair to know who I'm actually dealing with here.
11-09-2004, 06:46 PM #13
Unseen Victims of the Fallujah Attack
And 12 Americans soldiers died, in one day of fighting. Trust me this Fallujah attack is a horrible idea. Allawi has no idea what he is doing.
11-09-2004, 08:36 PM #14
Allawi looks dumber than Bush.....
11-09-2004, 08:39 PM #15Originally Posted by 1victor
11-09-2004, 08:47 PM #16
The marines are kicking ass and taking names, the way they should.... semper fi!
11-09-2004, 09:16 PM #17Originally Posted by Jdawg50
And how about drunk drivers.......lets work on getting those terrorists off the road.....they kill WAY MORE than 911 ever did......
11-09-2004, 09:29 PM #18Originally Posted by Badgerman
11-09-2004, 09:29 PM #19Originally Posted by Jdawg50
11-09-2004, 09:35 PM #20Originally Posted by Jdawg50
You're so ridiculous
11-10-2004, 07:59 AM #21Originally Posted by Badgerman
Timeline & Images on the Morning of September 11, 2001.
7:58 a.m. - United Airlines Flight 175 departs Boston for Los Angeles,
carrying 56 passengers, two pilots, and seven flight attendants. The
Boeing 767 is hijacked after takeoff and diverted to New York.
7:59 a.m. - American Airlines Flight 11 departs Boston for Los
Angeles, carrying 81 passengers, two pilots, and nine flight
attendants. This Boeing 767 is also hijacked and diverted to New York.
8:01 a.m. - United Airlines Flight 93, a Boeing 757 carrying 38
passengers, two pilots, and five flight attendants, leaves Newark, N.J.,
for San Francisco.
8:10 a.m. - American Airlines Flight 77 departs Washington's
Dulles International Airport for Los Angeles, carrying 58 passengers,
two pilots, and four flight attendants. The Boeing 757 is hijacked
8:46 a.m. - American Flight 11 from Boston crashes into the North
Tower at the World Trade Center.
9:03 a.m. - United Flight 175 from Boston crashes into the South
Tower at the World Trade Center.
- U.S. Federal Aviation Administration shuts down all New
York area airports.
9:21 a.m. - Bridges and tunnels leading into New York City
9:25 a.m. - All domestic flights are grounded by U.S. Federal
9:45 a.m. - American Flight 77 crashes into The Pentagon.
10:05 a.m. - The South Tower at the World Trade Center collapses.
10:05 a.m. - The White House is evacuated.
10:10 a.m. - A large section of one side of The Pentagon collapses.
10:10 a.m. - United Flight 93 crashes in a wooded area in
Pennsylvania, after passengers confront hijackers.
10:28 a.m. - The North Tower at the World Trade Center collapses.
See Timeline Graph of the Hijackings Below.
11-10-2004, 08:05 AM #22
Badger you still haven't denied you are Muslim, because you know it's a sin to demy your faith. Are you Muslim yes or no?
11-10-2004, 08:10 AM #23
HMMMMM 2 days not bad, how about them marines!!!!!
U.S. Forces Hold 70 Percent of Fallujah
Email this Story
Nov 10, 8:16 AM (ET)
By EDWARD HARRIS
(AP) A tank fires a round into a building in this TV image as U.S. troops, along with Iraqi forces, ...
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NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) - American forces bottled up guerrillas in a narrow strip of Fallujah's alleys and streets Wednesday after a stunningly swift advance that seized control of 70 percent of the insurgent stronghold. In Baghdad, kidnappers abducted two members of Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's family, the government said.
A militant group calling itself Ansar al-Jihad claimed in a Web posting to have carried out the kidnapping and threatened to behead the hostages within 48 hours unless the siege of Fallujah was lifted and prisoners were freed. The claim's authenticity could not immediately be verified.
Armed men snatched one of the prime minister's cousins, Ghazi Allawi, and the cousin's daughter-in-law from their home in Baghdad's western Yarmouk neighborhood Tuesday night, government spokesman Thair al-Naqeeb said. "Ghazi Allawi is 75 years old. He has no political affiliation, and is not holding a government post," al-Naqeeb said.
Ansar al-Jihad said in its Web posting that it abducted three people - a cousin of Allawi, the cousin's wife and another relative. "We promise Allah and his messenger that if the agent government doesn't respond to our demands within 48 hours, they (the hostages) will be beheaded," the statement said. Police had initially said that three relatives were kidnapped.
(AP) An Iraqi woman walks past armored U.S. military vehicles in the Dora section of Baghdad, Iraq,...
Insurgents have been trying to open a "second front" with a wave of attacks to divert U.S. forces from their offensive in Fallujah.
In Fallujah, the military said U.S. troops pushed insurgents into a section of the city flanking the main east-west highway that bisects the rebel bastion. At least 71 militants had been killed as of the beginning of the third day of intense urban combat, the military said, with the casualty figure expected to rise sharply once U.S. forces account for Iraqis and foreign fighters killed in airstrikes.
As of Tuesday night, 10 U.S. troops and two members of the Iraqi security force had been killed, a toll that already equaled the number of American troops who died when Marines besieged the city for three weeks in April.
Major Francis Piccoli, of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, characterized fighting overnight as "light to moderate" and said U.S. casualties were "extremely light."
Piccoli said U.S. forces that pushed south through Fallujah's central highway overnight now control 70 percent of the city. He said troops would move on Wednesday into the strip of territory where guerrillas were bottled up. "The heart of the city is what's in focus now," he said.
(AP) An American tank patrols in the Dora section of Baghdad, Iraq, Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004. At least...
The northwestern neighborhood of Jolan, the historic warren of crooked streets where Sunni militants and foreign fighters had rigged boobytraps, was now "secured and under control," he said, although Marines were expected to continue house-to-house searches for fighters and weapons.
About 100 men, women and children left their homes in Fallujah and made their way to American positions in the south of the city where they gave themselves up Wednesday, an officer from the Army's 1st Cavalry Division said. The group was to be searched for weapons and questioned, and all military-age men would be detained, the officer said.
Most of Fallujah's 200,000 to 300,000 residents are believed to have fled the city before the U.S. assault. Civilian casualties in the attack are not known, though U.S. commanders say they believe they are low. Officers on Tuesday said few civilians have tried to leave during the fighting, though a funeral procession was allowed to exit the city.
Marine reports Wednesday said 25 American troops and 16 Iraqi soldiers were wounded.
Also Wednesday, one U.S. soldier was killed and a second was wounded by a roadside bomb north of Baghdad. In northern Iraq, six Iraqi soldiers died and two were wounded when a roadside bomb detonated near an Iraqi military camp.
(AP) An American tank patrols in the Dora section of Baghdad, Iraq, Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004. At least...
Guerrillas trying to open a "second front" have launched a wave of attacks that have killed at least 13 Americans since Monday - apart from the Fallujah operation. For the first time in a year, Allawi declared a nighttime curfew in Baghdad and its surroundings.
U.S. troops in Fallujah advanced a block or two behind a curtain of firepower laid down by as many as eight attack aircraft - including jets and helicopter gunships - which blasted guerrilla positions and raked the streets with rocket, cannon and machine-gun fire.
Small groups of guerrillas, armed with rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, mortars and machine guns, engaged U.S. troops, then fell back. U.S. troops inspected houses along Fallujah's streets and ran across adjoining alleyways, mindful of snipers.
Despite resistance being lighter than expected, the top U.S. commander in Iraq said Tuesday he still predicted "several more days of tough urban fighting" as insurgents fell back toward the southern end of the city, perhaps for a last stand.
"I'm surprised how quickly (resistance) broke and how quickly they ran away, a force of foreign fighters who were supposed to fight to the death," Lt. Col. Pete Newell, a battalion commander in the 1st Infantry Division, told CNN.
(AP) A damaged vehicle remains at the scene after a roadside bomb attack on an Iraqi Police special...
The U.S. advance in Fallujah was more rapid than in April, when insurgents fought a force of fewer than 2,000 Marines to a standstill in a three-week siege. It ended with the Americans handing over the city to a local force, which lost control to Islamic militants.
This time, the U.S. military has sent up to 15,000 U.S. and Iraqi troops into the battle, backed by tanks, artillery and attack aircraft.
"The enemy is fighting hard but not to the death," Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz, the multinational ground force commander in Iraq, told a Pentagon news conference relayed by video from Iraq. "There is not a sense that he is staying in particular places. He is continuing to fall back or he dies in those positions."
Metz said Iraqi soldiers searched several mosques Tuesday and found "lots of munitions and weapons."
Although capturing or killing the senior insurgent leadership is a goal of the operation, Metz said he believed the most wanted man in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, had escaped Fallujah.
It was unclear how many insurgents stayed in the city for the fight. Metz said troops have captured a very small number of insurgent fighters and "imposed significant casualties against the enemy."
Before the major ground assault that began Monday night, the U.S. military reported 42 insurgents killed. Fallujah doctors reported 12 people dead. Since then, there has been no specific information on Iraqi death tolls.
11-10-2004, 08:34 AM #24Originally Posted by Jdawg50
And that was just with two airplanes.
Just think of how many people they could have killed with a couple of chemical weapons or with one nuclear weapon.
What if Bush had waited, and Iraq did have chemical weapons or manufactured even a dirty nuclear weapon, as all of the intelligence that we had at the beginning of the Iraq war indicated, and detonated one them in down town New York city?
Wouldn’t we now be discussing how Bush should have done something, asking why he did nothing?
11-10-2004, 08:38 AM #25
Bigen , of cousre unfortunatley the persident is in a no win situation. Crybabies will do what they do, whine.
11-10-2004, 08:47 AM #26
No.....I'm not Muslim
All the 911 facts are interesting...BUT....Iraq was not involved with Alqueda......however we did do a nice job of promoting the war between Iraq and Iran
to the tune of one million lives........so we're just innocent right?
11-10-2004, 08:51 AM #27
Badger right now where would you rather be living? Anywhere in the middleast, the sudan, or other areas of the world that are similar or in America?
11-10-2004, 09:01 AM #28
Depends how I was raised......If I was raised Muslim......I certainly would not want to live here with all the rampant promiscuity, adultery, theft, murder, etc.
Because I was raised here......here is the best.
I would prefer it if our government would take the moral high ground more often.
I'm sure if you asked a Roman where they'd rather live it would be in the empire.....but that does not mean the Romans were a moral group.
Actually, I'm checking out Australian when it becomes practical......I know......they were part of the "coalition"
Ask an Iraqi......I'm sure they love their country......what's left of it
11-10-2004, 09:07 AM #29
"what are they gonna do??....swim over here??"
Once again you missed the point. This is what you said. I then pointed out the fact that they had done something regardless of any association. The bottom line is that there are a lot ob people over there trying to kill us, and want to kill us. You basically asserted in that statement that there is no threat, and no way for them to come and kill us.
I then pionted out the fact that it has been done before, and may happen again. You must have missed the news on that day about 3 years ago.
11-10-2004, 09:11 AM #30
You think that this culture is "good stuff" to Christians? In case you were wondering it's not. I still would not want to live anywhere else.
I'm sure you will find something to be disgruntled with in Australia too. It's really not meant as a flame. Practical thinking contends that. There is no paradise or panacea. Unfortunately we live in a fallen world full of sin all around us. It is inescapable, you can run to anywhere you want but it will still be there.
11-10-2004, 09:11 AM #31
But there is where your wrong. If the US didnt attack Iraq there wouldnt be alot of anger against the US in Iraq, sure there will be some anger, everyone has anger against another country.
But look at a Iraqi now, they will say America destroyed my country, they killed my kids etc etc.
Dont be suprised if in 10 years, there is an attack on the US, and it is done by an Iraqi claiming revenge for what the US did to his country.
The guy in my avatar, Shamil Basayev, was going to college and get an education, to support his family, but one day Russia came in and invaded his town, he lost 6 of his kids, his parents, his wife, his uncles, and his nieces, in one attack.
The next day he became a fighter, now he is one of the biggest terrorist forces Russia has ever seen.
11-10-2004, 09:12 AM #32
Caucasian your tune sure has changed I remember you saying the war was a good thing and it helped the people of Iraq. Make up your mind.
11-10-2004, 09:13 AM #33
I'm talking about the barefoot soldiers of Fallujah......you'd be shooting RPGs too if your kid had gotten bombed.....
If we quit supporting the royal family of Saudi and stood up for the common people .....I bet AlQueda would leave us alone too......but GW is all about the money......so he puts us all at risk........
11-10-2004, 09:15 AM #34
You are assuming that they represent the whole of Iraq, the people of one town.
Most of those people can't even read how are they going to understand the complexities of middleast politics gimme a break.
11-10-2004, 09:33 AM #35
So we'd better beat on them cause they're dumb right? Just like the Native Americans and Africans
11-10-2004, 11:31 PM #36Originally Posted by 1victor
11-10-2004, 11:34 PM #37Originally Posted by workdude
11-10-2004, 11:40 PM #38Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
11-10-2004, 11:41 PM #39Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
11-10-2004, 11:55 PM #40
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