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  1. #1
    max2extreme's Avatar
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    Muslims do not believe we are born to sin...correct?

    Mohammad said, "Every human being is born in a state of a pure nature...

    Is this a mis-understanding on my part? Is that what the above means?

    We christians believe we are born into sin.

  2. #2
    wingsofazrael is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    Mohammad said, "Every human being is born in a state of a pure nature...

    Is this a mis-understanding on my part? Is that what the above means?

    We christians believe we are born into sin.
    yes, the whole concept of being born into sin is foreign in islam.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    Mohammad said, "Every human being is born in a state of a pure nature...

    Is this a mis-understanding on my part? Is that what the above means?

    We christians believe we are born into sin.
    Christians believe taking a dump is a sin... you can't win being christian.

  4. #4
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    Not only do I believe it because of the bible, but when I look at life as well. Do we teach our kids to steal? Do we teach our kids to lie? or to cheat? or to disobey their parents? Or do they do that on their own and we teach them NOT to do these things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    Not only do I believe it because of the bible, but when I look at life as well. Do we teach our kids to steal? Do we teach our kids to lie? or to cheat? or to disobey their parents? Or do they do that on their own and we teach them NOT to do these things.
    evil is from Satan he is epitome of it , God created him for just that reason , and according to our belief , a baby when born is pure and innocent free of any sin , and as he grows up he is effected by his environment , and then he is an open target for satanic whispers of his lustful desires , and then if he does bad its because he is weak in faith to deal with satan at all ! or he chooses the way of evil ....................

    WHEN I SAY SATAN WAS BORN TO BE EVIL , i mean , he was destined to revolt against GOD Almighty .............. although he was given the choice to live among the angels and be God's number 1 , but his EGO betrayed him , so its actually his own fault he brought himself to being the cursed one !
    Last edited by ZOAIB; 11-12-2004 at 07:34 AM.

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    SURAH YASIN . ( VERSES 60 - 64 )

    60. Did I not ordain for you, O Children of Adam, that you should not worship Shaitân (Satan). Verily, he is a plain enemy to you.

    61. And that you should worship Me [Alone Islâmic Monotheism, and set up not rivals, associate-gods with Me]. That is a Straight Path[].

    62. And indeed he (Satan) did lead astray a great multitude of you. Did you not, then, understand?

    63. This is Hell which you were promised!

    64. Burn therein this Day, for that you used to disbelieve.[]
    Last edited by ZOAIB; 11-12-2004 at 07:37 AM.

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    ALSO the theory of the ORIGINAL SIN doesnt makes sense to me since , i cant imagine a GOD to be so unjustful to punish us for the sin committed by ADAM n EVE .............. why and what have i done to deserve that punishment , Adam didnt ask me before eating the apple nor did eve ............ so why should we bear the load of their sin on our birth into this world !

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    evil is from Satan he is epitome of it , God created him for just that reason , and according to our belief , a baby when born is pure and innocent free of any sin , and as he grows up he is effected by his environment , and then he is an open target for satanic whispers of his lustful desires , and then if he does bad its because he is weak in faith to deal with satan at all ! or he chooses the way of evil ....................

    WHEN I SAY SATAN WAS BORN TO BE EVIL , i mean , he was destined to revolt against GOD Almighty .............. although he was given the choice to live among the angels and be God's number 1 , but his EGO betrayed him , so its actually his own fault he brought himself to being the cursed one !

    so then you believe that instead of little children having an 'instinct' to sin (born into), if you will, that all children are too weak for the devil, thus all children, in a way, belong to satan until they are taught otherwise?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    ALSO the theory of the ORIGINAL SIN doesnt makes sense to me since , i cant imagine a GOD to be so unjustful to punish us for the sin committed by ADAM n EVE .............. why and what have i done to deserve that punishment , Adam didnt ask me before eating the apple nor did eve ............ so why should we bear the load of their sin on our birth into this world !
    I dont disagree that it sucks we must pay for the sins of adam and eve, but thats what i believe because the bible says so, and the fact that we cant prove it, and if God says we must all pay, then ok..who am i to argue. all i know is what i read in the bible and it make sense looking at children.

  10. #10
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    Dean, that's a moronic statement. What do you know about Christianity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Dean, that's a moronic statement. What do you know about Christianity?
    I know it's a waste of my time, which is why I stopped practicing a long long time ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    so then you believe that instead of little children having an 'instinct' to sin (born into), if you will, that all children are too weak for the devil, thus all children, in a way, belong to satan until they are taught otherwise?
    yes , that is in Islam a huge burden is on the parents of the children , since the parents will be first accountable for their childs behaviour .............. they will be asked why did your children go astray on the day of judgement ! .............. since good parenting is essential to prevent evil

  13. #13
    Pale Horse's Avatar
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    Then you never were a True Christian just a wannabe

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Then you never were a True Christian just a wannabe
    I didn't 'wannabe' a christian... I was force fed that crap... the only difference between you and I, is that you swallowed.

  15. #15
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    No I made a choice, obviously you didn't . I see you didn't the the message either.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    No I made a choice, obviously you didn't . I see you didn't the the message either.
    you swallowed buddy... gobbled it up and asked for seconds.

  17. #17
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    I sure did gobble it up and asked for seconds...and thirds and fourths... Ill keep on askin till the day i die. but i wasnt force fed.

  18. #18
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    Yeah Muslims dont belive in original sin.

    "Say: 'Shall I seek a lord other than Allah, while He is the Lord of all things? No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another. Then unto your Lord is your return, so He will tell you that wherein you have been differing.'" [6:164].

    As for the Islamic view of sin, it is similar to the Jewish view. In fact, the religion of Islam is the natural culmination of the progressive revelation of God from the very first prophet to the last one, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Consequently, Islam believes in all prophets of God, from Adam to Muhammad, including Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all).

    According to the Islamic creed, the original religion taught by all these prophets is and was always Islam, which is the peaceful submission to the One and Only God. Thus, the concept of sin as taught by all prophets of God ought to be the same.

    The closeness between Judaism and Islam in this regard is obvious; but in Christianity we find a great difference, which results from the influence of Saul of Tarsus, who is later known as St Paul. Paul introduced into Christianity the ideas of ‘God becoming man’ and ‘God dying for the sins of man’. Such concepts are entirely alien to the Semitic religious tradition and considered ‘pagan’, according to the Islamic view.

    In Islam, a sin is an act against the will of Allah. We have the ability to abide by His will and this is the meaning of the word Islam. Still we have the ability to ignore His will or deliberately oppose it; due to the fact that God has given us freedom - though within limits).

    Islam is our conscious and peaceful submission to the will of Allah. The purpose of our existence as human beings is to worship and serve Allah – or to fulfill His will. And, a solid foundation of worshipping Allah is to show gratitude to Him for the great gifts He has granted us. Following this will bring us the greatest benefits in this life and the next. It is in trying to do this that our intentions are purified and it is by our intentions that we are judged.

    In contrast to the Christian teaching that human nature is basically evil [owing to the Original Sin], Islam teaches that it is essentially good. There are many elements to Human nature and each one has the potential to bring benefits. So there is no "Original Sin" in Islam. It is that when Man contradicts God’s commandments or His will, he commits sins.

    Adam committed such a sin, which led to his expulsion from the Garden of Eden. But Adam repented and prayed to God for forgiveness, which God granted him, as mentioned in the following in Surah 2, verse 37:
    *{Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord turned towards him; for He is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.}*

    This means that unlike Christianity, which teaches that all the children of Adam are sinful for Adam’s sin, Islam teaches that all humans are innocent by birth and they become sinful only when they consciously commit a sin. Islam regards the concept of “original sin” and the need for atonement by God Himself - via dying on the Cross - as a pure invention of those who came after Jesus Christ, declaring themselves as Christians.

    Another important point to bear in mind about the Islamic concept of sin is that one man’s sin cannot be transferred to another; nor can the reward due to a person be transferred either. Every individual is responsible only for his or her actions, for God is never unjust. This is made clear in the following in Surah 17, verse 25:
    *{Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss. No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We punish until We had sent a messenger [to give warning].}*

    Every individual is an independent person who is responsible for his or her actions alone. There is no need for salvation from sin, for there is no original burden. One's success in the Hereafter lies in his living a righteous life in this world. Each has to build his/her own Heaven, avoiding the misery of Hell. Faith is important, but faith alone without deeds will be fruitless.

    http://www.islamonline.net/askabouti...uestionID=3820

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by max2extreme
    I sure did gobble it up and asked for seconds...and thirds and fourths... Ill keep on askin till the day i die. but i wasnt force fed.
    sure you were.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean1233
    sure you were.
    why do you say this dean? or is your meaning that all christians were force fed? either way it discredits you. i picked up the bible, asked questions and eventually became a christian. If that is being force fed. ok. i was force fed.

  21. #21
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean1233
    sure you were.

    Dean more than one complaint about you I've searched your threads here in the religious/political/war forum. Will you ever have anything constructive to contribute before your (politely) asked to leave?.. Indeed I think a one day suspension untill you've familiarised yourself with the rules is in order.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOAIB
    evil is from Satan he is epitome of it , God created him for just that reason , and according to our belief , a baby when born is pure and innocent free of any sin , and as he grows up he is effected by his environment , and then he is an open target for satanic whispers of his lustful desires , and then if he does bad its because he is weak in faith to deal with satan at all ! or he chooses the way of evil ....................

    WHEN I SAY SATAN WAS BORN TO BE EVIL , i mean , he was destined to revolt against GOD Almighty .............. although he was given the choice to live among the angels and be God's number 1 , but his EGO betrayed him , so its actually his own fault he brought himself to being the cursed one !

    So god created something imperfect ? he built something to purposely fall from grace ? wouldn't that in turn make god equally responsible for all the havok and pain caused by sin ?

    Angels have a free will - similar to mans .

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