11-15-2004, 02:07 PM #1
The Israeli Defense Forces, and their Terrorist Beginnings
The Dream of a Greater Israel
I would like to say this is not a conspricacy theory, its is a fact, which will be supported by any sites, including Zionist sites.
The IDF before it was a well established Military force was The Haganah (Hebrew: "Defense") was a Zionist military organization in Palestine during the British mandate of Palestine from 1920 to 1948. The Haganah later became the Israel Defense Forces—Israel's army.
The predecessor of Haganah was the Ha-Shomer (Guild of Watchman) established in 1909. It was a small group of Jewish immigrants who guarded settlements for an annual fee. At no time did the group have more than 100 members.
After the war, the Haganah carried out anti-British operations in Palestine. Liberation of interned immigrants from the Atlit camp, the bombing of the country's railroad network, sabotage raids on radar installations and bases of the British police. It also continued its organizing of illegal immigration.
On May 28, 1948, less than two weeks after the creation of the state of Israel on May 15, the provisional government created the Israeli Defense Forces which would succeed the Haganah. It also outlawed maintenance of any other armed force. Irgun challenged the decision which led to a brief clash between Haganah and Irgun. Eventually Irgun laid down their weapons and Menachem Begin transformed his militia to a political party, the Herut.
Haganah branches were established at Jewish D.P. [displaced person] camps in Europe and Haganah members accompanied the “illegal” immigrant boats. In the spring of 1947, David Ben-Gurion took it upon himself to direct the general policy of the Haganah, especially in preparation for impending Arab attack. On May 26 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel decided to transform the Haganah into the regular army of the State, to be called “Zeva Haganah Le-Yisrael”—The Israel Defense Forces.
Another offshoot of the Hanagah was the Irgun, who wasnt as paramilitary as the Hanagah, but they were a terrorist group.
Read about the Irgun and their terrorist crimes against both Arabs and Jews.
Another offshoot of the Hanagah was the Stern Gang (Lehi), another terrorist group.
Lehi (Hebrew acronym for Lohamei Herut Israel, "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel") was a radical underground Jewish paramilitary group, a terrorist group according to both its own description and that of its opponents. It was active during the British Mandate of Palestine prior to the founding of the State of Israel and during the first part of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The British authorities dubbed it the Stern gang, after its founder, Avraham Stern.
Neither Jewish morality nor Jewish tradition can negate the use of terror as a means of battle.
We are quite far from moral hesitations on the national battlefield. We see before us the command of the Torah, the most moral teaching in the world: "Obliterate - until destruction." We are particularly far from this sort of hesitation in regard to an enemy whose moral perversion is admitted by all.
"But primarily terror is part of our political battle under present conditions and its role is large and great:It demonstrates, in clear language, to those who listen throughout the world and to our despondent brothers outside the gates of this country of our battle against the true terrorist who hides behind his piles of papers and the laws he has legislated.It is not directed against people, it is directed against representatives. Therefore it is effective.If it also shakes the Jews in Israel from their complacency, good and well.
On May 26 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel decided to transform the Haganah into the regular army of the State, to be called “Zeva Haganah Le-Yisrael”—The Israel Defense Forces.
Last edited by CAUSASIAN; 11-15-2004 at 02:13 PM.
11-15-2004, 02:12 PM #2
The Irgun was considered to be a terrorist organization by the British, amongs others, but many Jews regarded its members as freedom fighters. Irgun is known by its Hebrew acronym Etzel. Its best known activity was the bombing of King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, which killed close to a hundred people.
1937-1939 - A large number of attacks against Arabs, sometimes en masse, were carried out, especially under the command of Moshe Rosenberg and David Raziel. For example, 24 Arabs were killed and 39 injured by a marketplace bomb in Haifa, February 27, 1939, and further casualties were caused by bombs in Jerusalem and Tel-Aviv on the same day. (Sources: Palestine Post 2/28/39; Y. Ben-Ami, Years of Wrath, Days of Glory; Memiors of the Irgun (1982))
11-15-2004, 02:16 PM #3Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
You're mixing up 3 different groups. The Etzel (the Irgun) and the Lechi have engaged in terrorist activity, such as "Dir Yasin" (bet you haven't heard of that, have you).
The IDF didn't originate in the Etzel and Lechi, but rather in the Hagana (IDF is in Hebrew "Tzahal" which is initials of Tzva Hagana LeIsrael), as you said in your own post, and therefore the connection you're trying to make between Lechi and Etzel's terrorist actions and the IDF doesn't exist. The IDF was not formed by those organizations, and didn't adopt their values.
11-15-2004, 02:19 PM #4
Menachem Begin speaking in front of his terrorist supporters, with a map of Israel from the Euphrates to the Nile.
He would come a Prime Minister to Israel in 1977.
His terrorist group the Irgun, would become a political party called Herut, which later served as the foundation of the Likud Party.
11-15-2004, 02:20 PM #5Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
11-15-2004, 02:24 PM #6Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
The Irgun were an offshoot the the Haganah.
11-15-2004, 02:28 PM #7Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
Etzel was involved in terrorist activity and Begin was the Israeli Prime minister who signed the peace treaty with Egypt, evacuated Israeli settlements in Sinai, and gave back Sinai the the Egyptians in return for a peace treaty which still holds today.
How does that connect or prove your claim that the IDF have terrorist orinins?
11-15-2004, 02:31 PM #8
The Irgun and Lehi were offshoots of the Haganah. Irgun became a policitical party called the Herut, which which later served as the foundation of the Likud Party.
Sure Begin signed a peace treaty with Egypt, but the fact remains he was a leader of the terrorist group Irgun at one point, and he was later elected as a Israeli Prime Minister.
11-15-2004, 02:32 PM #9Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
Yes. There were ideological and policy disputes so they split up. What does that tell you?
Read the line you wrote, that I marked as bold. You should read what you post before you post it, and not just copy-paste it, because the answers to your questions are there.
11-15-2004, 02:32 PM #10Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
And I'll ask you again, how does that prove the claim of your title?
11-15-2004, 02:39 PM #11
There you go, straight from the IDF website:
The IDF Spirit
The Israel Defense Forces are the state of Israel's military force. The IDF is subordinate to the directions of the democratic civilian authorities and the laws of the state. The goal of the IDF is to protect the existence of the State of Israel and her independence, and to thwart all enemy efforts to disrupt the normal way of life in Israel. IDF soldiers are obligated to fight, to dedicate all their strength and even sacrifice their lives in order to protect the State of Israel, her citizens and residents. IDF soldiers will operate according to the IDF values and orders, while adhering to the laws of the state and norms of human dignity, and honoring the values of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state.
Spirit of the IDF-Definition and Origins
The Spirit of the IDF is the identity card of the IDF values, which should stand as the foundation of all of the activities of every IDF soldier, on regular or reserve duty. The Spirit of the IDF and the guidelines of operation resulting from it are the ethical code of the IDF. The Spirit of the IDF will be applied by the IDF, its soldiers, its officers, its units and corps to shape their mode of action. They will behave, educate and evaluate themselves and others according to the Spirit of the IDF.
The Spirit of the IDF draws on four sources:
The tradition of the IDF and its military heritage as the Israel Defense Forces.
The tradition of the State of Israel, its democratic principles, laws and institutions.
The tradition of the Jewish People throughout their history.
Universal moral values based on the value and dignity of human life.
Defense of the State, its Citizens and its Residents - The IDF's goal is to defend the existence of the State of Israel, its independence and the security of the citizens and residents of the state.
Love of the Homeland and Loyalty to the Country - At the core of service in the IDF stand the love of the homeland and the commitment and devotion to the State of Israel-a democratic state that serves as a national home for the Jewish People-its citizens and residents.
Human Dignity - The IDF and its soldiers are obligated to protect human dignity. Every human being is of value regardless of his or her origin, religion, nationality, gender, status or position.
Tenacity of Purpose in Performing Missions and Drive to Victory - The IDF servicemen and women will fight and conduct themselves with courage in the face of all dangers and obstacles; They will persevere in their missions resolutely and thoughtfully even to the point of endangering their lives.
Responsibility - The IDF serviceman or woman will see themselves as active participants in the defense of the state, its citizens and residents. They will carry out their duties at all times with initiative, involvement and diligence with common sense and within the framework of their authority, while prepared to bear responsibility for their conduct.
Credibility - The IDF servicemen and women shall present things objectively, completely and precisely, in planning, performing and reporting. They will act in such a manner that their peers and commanders can rely upon them in performing their tasks.
Personal Example - The IDF servicemen and women will comport themselves as required of them, and will demand of themselves as they demand of others, out of recognition of their ability and responsibility within the military and without to serve as a deserving role model.
Human Life - The IDF servicemen and women will act in a judicious and safe manner in all they do, out of recognition of the supreme value of human life. During combat they will endanger themselves and their comrades only to the extent required to carry out their mission.
Purity of Arms - The IDF servicemen and women will use their weapons and force only for the purpose of their mission, only to the necessary extent and will maintain their humanity even during combat. IDF soldiers will not use their weapons and force to harm human beings who are not combatants or prisoners of war, and will do all in their power to avoid causing harm to their lives, bodies, dignity and property.
Professionalism - The IDF servicemen and women will acquire the professional knowledge and skills required to perform their tasks, and will implement them while striving continuously to perfect their personal and collective achievements.
Discipline - The IDF servicemen and women will strive to the best of their ability to fully and successfully complete all that is required of them according to orders and their spirit. IDF soldiers will be meticulous in giving only lawful orders, and shall refrain from obeying blatantly illegal orders.
Comradeship - The IDF servicemen and women will act out of fraternity and devotion to their comrades, and will always go to their assistance when they need their help or depend on them, despite any danger or difficulty, even to the point of risking their lives.
Sense of Mission - The IDF soldiers view their service in the IDF as a mission; They will be ready to give their all in order to defend the state, its citizens and residents. This is due to the fact that they are representatives of the IDF who act on the basis and in the framework of the authority given to them in accordance with IDF orders.
11-15-2004, 02:57 PM #12
So far this post has proved many points -
- A leader of a terrorist group became a Prime Minister of Israel.
- The Likud Party had terrorist beginnings.
- The Dream of Greater Israel is not something Arabs made up.
- Using terror for freedom was not an Arab invention.
- Jewish people not Muslims were the founders of terrorism.
- Basically the offshoots of the IDF are two well known terror groups.
- The Irgun and Stern Gang (LEHI) had elements of their party in the first IDF army.
- The Irgun was considered to be a terrorist organization by the British, amongs others, but many Jews regarded its members as freedom fighters.
Last edited by CAUSASIAN; 11-15-2004 at 02:59 PM.
11-15-2004, 03:01 PM #13
A quote by LEHI, also known as Freedom Fighters for Israel
But primarily terror is part of our political battle under present conditions and its role is large and great:
11-15-2004, 03:45 PM #14Retired Vet
Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
HARD LUCK. SHE WON AGAIN
11-15-2004, 04:29 PM #15Originally Posted by BOUNCER
11-15-2004, 04:43 PM #16Retired Vet
Originally Posted by ZOAIB
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
11-15-2004, 04:52 PM #17Originally Posted by BOUNCER
11-15-2004, 05:32 PM #18Associate Member
Originally Posted by ZOAIB
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
11-15-2004, 05:36 PM #19Retired Vet
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
Never mind what was posted.
11-15-2004, 07:28 PM #20
By the way do you know why RockSolid was banned, he was willing to change his signature.
11-15-2004, 07:29 PM #21
And I find that avatar and signature offensive.
11-15-2004, 09:21 PM #22Associate Member
Originally Posted by CAUSASIAN
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
Last edited by wingsofazrael; 04-05-2006 at 03:23 PM.
11-16-2004, 01:05 AM #23Originally Posted by BOUNCER
Even if Hizbollah, I stress the if, because I dont think they are terrorists, and arent even close in the crimes commited by Irgun, and LEHI, even if they were a terrorist group once upon a time, it doenst mean they can one day become a legidimate political organization, or a leader of a state.
Thank you for falling in the trap again.
11-16-2004, 01:20 AM #24Retired Vet
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
You set a poor trap my friend.
Hezbollah should just accept the state of Israel and halt its terrorist attacks on the Galilee. It should then turn its guns on Syria and get them out of Lebanon. Then it should release any Israeli hostages in its captivity and then Sheik Hassan Nasrallah should think about a career in politics, lol..
Its a terrorist organisation, pure and simple
Regards RockSolid. It was a total mistake on my behalf, I'll be in touch with him offering my sincerest apologises, I was to edit his signature and totally forgot.
11-16-2004, 07:55 AM #25
I understand that you started this thread in an attempt to annoy me after realising that Hizballa are terrorists and you can't prove otherwise. Still, you have failed to prove the point in your title in this thread. I still haven't seen any evidence that IDF have "terrorist roots" as you say, especially after I have explained to you that IDF was started by Hagana, and after you have shown that one of the reasons for the Etzel and Lechi to split up from Hagana was that the Hagana were moderate and wanted to show restraint with Arabs and Brits.
11-16-2004, 09:27 AM #26
These are the origins of the IDF:
The elite striking force of the Haganah. Established by the Haganah's national command on May 19, 1941, the Palmach consisted of nine assault companies: three in the northern Galilee, two in central Galilee, two in southern Galilee, and one in Jerusalem. The Palmach launched pre-emptive strikes into Syrian and Lebanese territory, frequently sending members fluent in Arabic in Arab dress into Syria and Lebanon to sabotage and scout targets. The Palmach grew to 12 companies. Palmach leaders included Yigal Allon, Moshe Dayan, Yitzhak Rabin, Haim Bar-Lev, Uzi Narkiss and Ezer Weizman
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