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Thread: Wars 1816-1991

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    nickrizz's Avatar
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    Wars 1816-1991

    Bush said last week with Tony Blair, that democracies are the best government because democracies dont go to war with each other.

    I did some research and found this:

    Wars, 1816-1991
    Types of Wars Numbers of Wars

    Democracies vs. Democracies 0
    Democracies vs. Nondemocracies 155
    Nondemocracies vs. Nondemocracies 198
    Total 353

    (these are wars defined as any military action in which at least 1,000 people are killed)

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    That's f*cking interesting man...very... What were your sources, just out of curiosity?

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    source: Haiku Institute of Peace Research, (October 20, 1991) Chapter 18, 473

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    I'm taking a politics class and it is very interesting to get the different points of view, kind of like on this site, the book is very informative also

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    It's interesting, but I'm a little doubtfull at those numbers... they seem low... considering all the conflicts left and right (heck just look at all the civil wars all over africa).

    The US civil war doesn't count as Democracy vs Democracy btw?

    Red

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    no because the confederate states of america fought the civil war to succeed, and lost. they were never recognized as a nation. i thought the figures were weird too but i think they are pretty accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickrizz
    Bush said last week with Tony Blair, that democracies are the best government because democracies dont go to war with each other.

    I did some research and found this:

    Wars, 1816-1991
    Types of Wars Numbers of Wars

    Democracies vs. Democracies 0
    Democracies vs. Nondemocracies 155
    Nondemocracies vs. Nondemocracies 198
    Total 353

    (these are wars defined as any military action in which at least 1,000 people are killed)
    good point, and very informative

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    that is why i dont care what anyone says, but i truley believe that every nation should have a democracy where EVERYONE can vote, and im sure thats what 99.99% of the people in the world want (even if they are not allowed to say it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickrizz
    that is why i dont care what anyone says, but i truley believe that every nation should have a democracy where EVERYONE can vote, and im sure thats what 99.99% of the people in the world want (even if they are not allowed to say it).
    the only downside to that is, to have a democracy, you usually go to war to achieve that.

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    or the people could have a peacefull revolution like ghandi in india, but no one wants to do that anymore

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickrizz
    or the people could have a peacefull revolution like ghandi in india, but no one wants to do that anymore
    na too boring and besides people like to eat, not starve to death

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    Quote Originally Posted by hung-solo
    na too boring and besides people like to eat, not starve to death
    lol, its true though right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickrizz
    or the people could have a peacefull revolution like ghandi in india, but no one wants to do that anymore
    Although I respect Gandhi, he was the pin that broke the camels back. There was violence before where hundreds of thousands of Indians were killed. If there wasnt any chaos, Gandhi would not be as effective.

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    I still believe Gandhi made a big difference and should be praised for his teachings and his experiences

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    democracie is a kind of dictatorship wher the bigger group dictate his own rules.

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    Great point. Although I do think there have been zero d vs d wars since then. I am no history expert but just some I can think of:
    Falkland Islands War - Argentina vs UK
    Greece vs Turkey sh**
    I think Germany was considered democratic. s***, Hitler was voted into office.

    Then defining a democracy can be tricky, one thing is to hold popular elections, and the other is to make sure they count and represent! True democracy is really kind of a new thing, not that old. Think about it, even here (USA) 50 yrs ago, blacks and woman couldnt vote. We have come a long way. What a trip, dont you think?

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    Meant "have been d vs d...".........word "zero" just sneaked in there

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    Not long ago we were trouncing the blacks, Indians , and women........now we think we have ALL the answers for everybody. Some countries are not READY for democracy. The level of education is just not high enough in some areas of the world for the democratic process to work. In the US we have reduced democracy to a two party system with our representatives being mostly spoiled rich brats......people of priviledge and groomed by the power elite. It'll be interesting to see what happens to US when the white is the minority and the level of education drops in the general populous. We could be in for a rough ride

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    Quote Originally Posted by Militia
    democracie is a kind of dictatorship wher the bigger group dictate his own rules.
    no they dont because there is a system of checks and balances. people can be impeached, recalled, and voted out. plus the bigger group in a democracy usually shifts:

    Ford (R)
    Carter (D)
    Reagan (R)
    Bush (R)
    Clinton (D)
    Bush Jr. (R)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerman
    Not long ago we were trouncing the blacks, Indians , and women........now we think we have ALL the answers for everybody. Some countries are not READY for democracy. The level of education is just not high enough in some areas of the world for the democratic process to work. In the US we have reduced democracy to a two party system with our representatives being mostly spoiled rich brats......people of priviledge and groomed by the power elite. It'll be interesting to see what happens to US when the white is the minority and the level of education drops in the general populous. We could be in for a rough ride
    I do not think we have all the answers for everybody but you learn from your mistakes in a democracy and we have learned from ours (not all of them ), but in other societies like communism and dictatorships they dont have to learn from their mistakes because if you are told what the government wants you to think

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    Badger..........Totally agree that country has to be ready (education level)...smart point......its reality, for example, imagine corporations running as democracies.....imagine if the 2000 people putting the widgets together, because of their majority over the board of directors, would make all the strategy, investment, and marketing decisions. It just would not work.

    I disagree with your point about the 2 party system though. I think the 2 party system isnt that bad..............sometimes when you get too many parties, you dont have a true democracy........for example, there could be a country with 7 parties (I think Israel is like this, BUT NOT SURE SO DONT JUMP ME), and the party that wins might do this with only 20% of the vote. Hardly a representation of the majority.

    f***k, I cant believe I am talking about politics!...what am I trying to acomplish!!!.......I guess we like thinking we have all the answers to s***


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    i think russia and italy do the 7 party thing

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    Hate to tell you this, but the 2 party system is almost exclusive to the US...

    Most of the rest of the democratic world has multi party parliaments, some (like Israel and France and even us in Canada) run minority goverments or multi-party coalition governments.

    Red

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    Red,
    Do you think it would be better to have more parties in the US?
    I personally dont, but what do you think?

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    We NEED more parties....with a legitimate chance at winning. The current parties are way too far out in left and right field. We should run an election where the candidates have equal money and TV time. I believe the net could be a good forum for all candidates instead of jetting around the country wasting money. The campaigns are just a big circus right now with the big money controlling the show

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    In all honesty I don't know... but seeing how polarized the US was during the last election (and still is) I don't think it would hurt.

    Right now everything is seen as black or white... but in reality the people would *probably* be better served with shades of gray in between. Of course thats just my uneducated opinion.

    I think the people get a much better representation in places like Israel where there are many many parties and they all have have to put water in their wine to form a coalition government.

    This situation is happening for the first time in a long time here in Canada... we have elected a minority government which means everyone has to put of bit of water in their wine to ensure the government doesn't fall. That means instead of electing a dictator for 4 years (which is really what you get with a majority goverment) who does what he wants, we have 4 parties cooperating like we've never seen them before and things are getting done... it's kinda scary

    Red

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    Badgerman,
    Dont you think the reason there arent more parties,is because the people in this country, are either left or right?......I mean, what is the middle? a combination of right and left ideas?...gone control but not allowing abortion? tax cuts with affirmative action?......and really, from a global and historical perspective, the US right and US left are pretty mild compared to other countries............left in many countries is still socialist/communist, and right in others is head-choping, extremists. Look at Bush putting the tex-mex lawyer in a big position. That doesnt seem right-wing thinking to me. I know there is alot of political BS, and boy will that be hard to change, but as long as we still fall for it, the bs will keep happening(lack of education), then again, as long as the right knows they cant go too right or or the left too left, or they wont get elected, then our system works, as good as can be expected.

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