11-20-2004, 06:55 AM #1
Jewish Devil vs Christianity Devil...MMC78?
I saw in the thread about demons and ghosts you mentioned Jews devil is different than other religion's devil. I didnt know that, what is the difference??
11-20-2004, 09:19 AM #2
There is no difference between satan in either religion. The only difference is the amount of involement satan had in the Old Testament. At that time the Jews where not promised Heaven or Hell and the curses God placed on the jews, he took responsibility for. Now in the New Testament is more involved and further described. ANd then we are also led to beleive that satan is responsible for the bad things that happen to us in life.
Here is where I have a problem with the concept. In JOB it shows Satan walking into heaven and making a deal for control of a persons life. I beleive Satan was predestined and made for the purpose of being Gods Tool. Satan only has the power that God gives him. Satan can only do what God lets him do. He isnt getting over on god nor is he doing anything that God will not allow him. To me Satan is a scapegoat for God. Someone to do the dirty work in his Big plan.
Im sure some christians will have a problem with this. But im happy to debate them on this issue.
11-20-2004, 11:55 AM #3
I kind of see your poin of view Anhydro78.....its hard to believe that Satan is willingly opposing god and that god is letting him do so freely, Which is only possible if god and satan were somewhat close or even in power and abilities!!! and thats where the problem is because in every religeon in which satan exists...he is clearly much weaker than god and has absolutly no match in power or ability, which makes it hard to accept that god lets him do as he pleases and corrupt peoples lives!!
For me its easier to accept the scapegoat theory except we have to give more credit because its not for his own amusement...satan never grabs u by the hand and takes u to do sin....he just tempts u and those weak in faith and determination will surely falter and lose to temptation! And sadly thats the majority of us humans because how many people u know can resists every temptation in life from smallest to largest?
Also the concept of satan being able to be all around the world doing his dirty work at the same time and being behind every persons thoughts and movements is kind of hard to comprehend because thats a very 'godly' ability which once again makes satan even/equal to gods might if u believe he can do it!! Then in Islam satan has many followers so they all help him do the dirty work which takes a load off his horns.
I wonder sometimes....does satan hate freedom?
11-20-2004, 12:03 PM #4Originally Posted by Anhydro78
11-20-2004, 12:07 PM #5Originally Posted by Anhydro78
In the mean time here is a link:
Contrast this with the way Satan was portrayed by John the Greek gospel writer.
11-20-2004, 12:08 PM #6Originally Posted by KAEW44
i will correct u here bro ! God does let him do freely what satan does in corrupting humans , since God also has given us the message and those who follow the message are imune to satans control , so we have the defense against him all we need to do is make use of it , only the weakling fall prey to his ways , also on the day of judgement he wont be punished for our sins , since all he did was tell us false promises and we heard him and followed him instead of God , satan would say " hey man i only told u what to do , if u were so dumb to do it well , to make up for it ill give u VIP entrance to hell , and dont thank me really its an honor to have u down there "
11-20-2004, 12:13 PM #7Originally Posted by MMC78
11-20-2004, 05:55 PM #8Originally Posted by ZOAIB
thats not right man, u know for a fact that some of the strongest and very faithful have fallen to his ways before.
11-20-2004, 07:14 PM #9Originally Posted by KAEW44
11-20-2004, 07:19 PM #10Originally Posted by KAEW44
11-20-2004, 07:39 PM #11
All men at some point fall - Sin has become engraved in man - and it remains engraved in his flesh from birth till death . All men fall to the temptation of this Sin .
I think satan is stronger and wiser than most give him credit - most christains view him as already being " defeated and crushed " - but that does not mean he doesn't have the power to utterly crush you and all you hold dear as he has done this through his pawns countless times .
I do not think satan is everywhere at once physically , but I do believe he has ears and eyes all about . he works through people in a fashion similar to God's .
Last edited by Gorgoroth_; 11-20-2004 at 07:41 PM.
11-20-2004, 10:19 PM #12Originally Posted by Gorgoroth_
11-21-2004, 08:10 AM #13Originally Posted by KAEW44
11-21-2004, 08:14 AM #14Originally Posted by Gorgoroth_
11-21-2004, 08:21 AM #15Originally Posted by max2extreme
(oye ! i thought we were gonna blow guts man ???? what happened )
11-21-2004, 10:19 AM #16Originally Posted by MMC78
But from that page:
This brings me to the explaination of "Lucifer". Some say that Isaiah 14:12. "How are you fallen from heaven, O bright star [or shining one], son of the morning [or son of dawn]! how are you cut down to the ground, you who ruled the nations!" is about the "devil". Part of this is due to the fact that the term bright star or shining one is translated in Latin to lucifer, which means shining one. Now, the context of the verse and a bit of knowledge of history reviels that this is about the Babylonian empire. One of the main dieties of Babylon was "Ishtar", who was the "god" who was the morning star. Shining one, son of dawn is the morning star. The prophet was avoiding the use of the name of the not-god Ishtar. Reading verse 4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here. There is no Lucifer, no devil in the Tanach, but there are many, many adversaries and accusers of the Jewish people."
This explanation doesnt make sense to me. If this is talking about the Babylonian empire, then how do you/he explain the very next verses where it says
Originally Posted by ISAIAH 14:13-14
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