Thread: Any Vegans Here?
11-24-2004, 10:18 AM #1
Any Vegans Here?
I dont understand that!! Most Ive talked to, which isnt many, have said things like "its unhealthy to eat meat, you can get everything your body needs from foods besides meat, its cruel to the animals". Any vegans here care to express their views??
11-24-2004, 10:32 AM #2Originally Posted by max2extreme
I wish I was.
11-24-2004, 12:51 PM #3
trying to find a vegan on a bodybuilding board? good luck buddy...
11-24-2004, 01:12 PM #4Originally Posted by max2extreme
11-24-2004, 01:13 PM #5
I thought they all died out!!! hahaha
I've two freinds that are die hard vegans...something about not eating anything that cast a shadow...or something like that. Funny thing, my boss went up to Main last year and bought two large lobsters for each of us and shipped them back. My two Vegans didn't want to eat them. No kidding they wanted to let them go in our gulf. I told them they were cold water creatures and that they might not survive. They wouldn't hear it, they had to go into the water. So I volunteered to but them in the gulf for them. I thought my pants were going to bust open after eatting six freakin lobsters in one meal. hahahahahahahahaha
11-24-2004, 01:36 PM #6Originally Posted by Juggernaut
11-24-2004, 02:15 PM #7
I tried being vegetarian once. it was the most challenging 3 minutes of my life!
11-24-2004, 02:26 PM #8Originally Posted by Juggernaut
11-24-2004, 04:31 PM #9Writer
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
I'm a vegetarian...not a vegan though.
11-24-2004, 04:40 PM #10Writer
Originally Posted by Juggernaut
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
11-24-2004, 08:27 PM #11Originally Posted by hooker
11-24-2004, 09:41 PM #12
I eat bananas!!!
11-24-2004, 10:06 PM #13Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
FVCK VEGANS...i hate those winny, skinny, weak , save the dolphin mutha phuckers......how can you expect to get big by eating plants....fvcking ridiculous!
11-25-2004, 05:34 AM #14
there are levels of vegans?? nothing that casts a shadow...crazy! Yea after i posted this, i thought about the fact this is a BB board and no way would I find one, but i thought with all our members, there has to be some that believe "i can get all my protein from this..." did you guys see "supersize me". that cracked me up that his gf was a vegan chef!
11-25-2004, 09:16 AM #15Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
That documentary was sick......I'll never eat McDonald's again.
11-26-2004, 10:54 AM #16Writer
Originally Posted by imann
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
12-01-2004, 02:56 PM #17
Im a vegeterian and im at 5'8" 190 ..half way thru my first cycle...all you guys talking trash would be surprised at how much better than meat, some veggie meals are, since gone veggie I have gained 60 pounds or so while weight training naturally and I feel better and healthier than while I ever did while I ate meat, and I did that for 19 years, as for vegetarians posting on the board, you all know the things eating meat will bring now and in the long run, we're tired of repeating the same stuff, lol, so everybody eat what you choose but if you dont have anything to say about the other, dont speak at all, that goes to all the guys that wanted to sound tough in this thread.. and hooker, long live vegetarians
12-01-2004, 03:51 PM #18Writer
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
I don't push vegetarianism on anyone, and certainly my best friends are all big meat eaters....one is even a hunter. But honestly, whey protein, eggs, etc...are all better sources of protein than meat/chicken/fish.
It's my choice, and moral arguments aside (*for a full discussion of the moral arguments for vegetarianism, you can read: Peter Singer, "Animal Liberation"), meat is a poor choice for protein unless it satisfies some psychological or gustatory urge/need.
12-02-2004, 06:42 AM #19
I eat meat. I love the taste. I dont eat steaks and such very often. But Ill add turkey to my spaghetti sauce. Ill eat lunchmeat. But I also like vegetarian meals. I eat probably 3 vegetarian dinners a week. As for moral arguments, I think most are crazy.
12-03-2004, 05:41 AM #20
Most people think the moral arguments are crazy because they dont know them, lol. There are 5 major ones, anybody know them?
12-03-2004, 06:14 AM #21
Please share..I probably dont know them specifically...
12-03-2004, 06:46 AM #22
It's a life style choice. If you'd rather a diet minus animal proteins I'm sure even a body builder could see gains on it. Just takes a little more thought in meal planning. Still I'm interested in hearing those 5 moral arguments.
12-03-2004, 07:32 AM #23
Well #1 is health, #2 is the enviroment (all the crap animals raised for meat produce) #3 World Hunger ( It takes 6 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of meat, in turn this grain been lost could help in feeding people in countries were thousands die a day) #4 The abuse these animals go thru is horrible and #5 For some people their religion... I did a paper on vegetarianism, but it was in spanish.. if not I would post it, got an A After that assignment I turned vegetarian.
12-03-2004, 07:39 AM #24
1. Health of animals??
2. Environment you mean as far as the 'living conditions' of the animals?
3. Explain this too please. You mean a 5lb animal eats 30lbs grain??
4. Abuse can be argued. A family member of mine has cows and they arent abused, unless you call the actual death abuse.
5. religion cant be argued really. If your religion bans meat, sorry.
12-03-2004, 07:41 AM #25
Animals raised for meat produce 1.4 billion tons of crap, alot of forest has been taken down and the land is used to raise the animals...and the Population Reference Bureau did a study and found out that if everyone adopted a vegetarian diet, there would be enough to feed 10 billion people.. since the 40% of the worlds grain production that is used for animals could be used to feed humans.
12-03-2004, 07:50 AM #26Originally Posted by max2extreme
1 Health of humans... eating meat is related to diseases cancer, diabetes, heart disease.. high cholesterol levels. O besity, etc.
The nviroment, well I posted again on that..
And the part of 6 pounds of grains to produce a pound of meat is because they digest some of the food, the rest is lost, so not all the grain they eat will be gained in weight and for meat, follow me? Im trying to explain as best as I can, im hispanic and I did the report in spanish too, hope im translating it right.
As for the abuse part, well most are abused in these factory farms the thing is the most production in the least time, so to get them to move or do something they usually beat the animals... a video came out on KFC's suppliers and the abuse they caught on tape, plus their are alot of videos that have revealed the same.
12-03-2004, 08:11 AM #27
You are doing a good job at getting your point across. Thanks for taking the time. If you dont understand something I/we write, just ask. Though I know reading is a lot easier than speaking/writing in most languages.
I dont disagree that there is abuse of animals. I hate it with a passion. Im such an animal lover. But by me or anyone else not eating meat, I dont think that will solve the problem of this abuse.
question for you. using these as my references to this question:
Originally Posted by Dimes
12-03-2004, 08:13 AM #28
or another possibility, the animals that roam can not get the food they need and become extinct.
12-03-2004, 08:25 AM #29
Ok, by not eating meat you are solving the problem of the abuse in the sense that they produce what is needed,if the demand for a product is high, the production will be high, if it is low the production will be low, when a large population turns vegetarian, well they have to lower production, so by lowering production less animals would be abused... as for what becomes of the animals, well if the meat industry would shut down, either they would put the cows to sleep or have some people adopt some and put the rest to sleep. There are alot of cows because they breed them at a fast pace ... 9 billion animals die a year for meat, they have to keep breeding cows to keep producing meat.
12-03-2004, 08:29 AM #30
Most people, around here, don't feed their cows grain very often. The majority simply allow their cows to graze during the summer and feed them hay, which they baled during the summer, during the winter months. Of course there are costs associated with fertilizing the pastures.
12-03-2004, 08:29 AM #31
But meat is addictive, plus TV is ful of meat comercials, so it is very hard to turn vegetarian, limited places were to go eat, even in the supermarkets not many veggie products compared to animal products and the prices are much more expensive for a vegetarian diet.
12-03-2004, 08:32 AM #32
Nope, most meat come from factory farms, wich are factorys with thousands of cows locked up in a small place. Open farms are more rare everyday, since they can not produce as fast or as much amount as this factory farms.
12-03-2004, 08:34 AM #33
Hey Hooker where are you??? LOL, I know you know alot about the subject, your help would be good here,
12-03-2004, 08:40 AM #34Originally Posted by Dimes
However, I don’t believe that some people’s abuse of animals, warrants halting the growing of animals for food. I believe that going after these people / companies for their abuse of animals is the best plan.
One thing to remember, during the slaughter of animals for meat, most of the time, the males are castrated, and are with out a doubt distended for slaughter, keeping select males for breading. Some females are also slaughtered. I fear that without this type of population control, that breading could possibly get out of control.
12-03-2004, 08:41 AM #35Originally Posted by Dimes
Maybe in some parts of the world, however I haven't seen anything like this here in Georgia as far as cattle, however pigs are grown in this manor.
12-03-2004, 08:45 AM #36
The green pastures and idyllic barnyard scenes of years past, which are still portrayed in children’s books, have been replaced by windowless metal sheds, wire cages, gestation crates, and other confinement systems—what is now known as “factory farming.”
Farmed animals have no legal protection from horrific abuses that would be illegal if they were inflicted on dogs or cats: neglect, mutilations, genetic manipulation, and drug regimens that cause chronic pain and crippling, transport through all weather extremes, and inhumane slaughter. Yet farmed animals are no less interesting, intelligent, or capable of feeling pain than are the dogs or cats whom we cherish as companions.
Deprivation and Disease
The factory farming system of modern agriculture strives to produce the most meat, milk, and eggs as quickly and cheaply as possible, and in the smallest amount of space possible. Cows, calves, pigs, chickens, turkeys, ducks, geese, rabbits, and other animals are kept in small cages or stalls, often unable to turn around. They are deprived of exercise so that all their bodies’ energy goes toward producing flesh, eggs, or milk for human consumption. They are fed drugs to fatten them faster and are genetically altered to grow faster or to produce much more milk or eggs than they would naturally.
Because crowding creates a prime atmosphere for disease, animals on factory farms are fed and sprayed with huge amounts of pesticides and antibiotics, which remain in their bodies and are passed on to the people who eat them, creating serious human health hazards. Both the World Health Organization and the American Medical Association have supported ending the use of antibiotics.(1,2) Although McDonald’s has announced that it will phase out growth-promoting antibiotics, the fast-food chain is not likely to decrease overall antibiotic use.(3) The industry simply cannot raise the billions of animals per year that it does in such gruesome conditions without the drugs that allow their bodies to survive conditions that would otherwise kill them.
Chickens are inquisitive animals, and when in their natural surroundings, they form friendships and social hierarchies, recognize one another and develop pecking orders, love and care for their young, and enjoy a full life that includes dust-bathing, making nests, and roosting in trees. On the factory farm, however, chickens are denied these activities.
Laying hens live in battery cages stacked tier upon tier in huge warehouses. Confined seven or eight to a cage, they don’t have enough room to turn around or spread even one wing. Conveyor belts bring in food and water and carry away eggs and excrement. Farmers induce greater egg production through “forced molting”: Chickens are denied food and light for days, which leads to feather and weight loss.(4) To prevent stress-induced behaviors caused by overcrowding, such as pecking their cagemates to death, hens are kept in semi-darkness, and the ends of their beaks are cut off with hot blades (without pain relief). The wire mesh of the cages rubs their feathers off, chafes their skin, and cripples their feet. Chickens can live for more than a decade, but laying hens on factory farms are exhausted and unable to produce as many eggs by the time they are 2 years old, so they’re slaughtered.(5,6) More than 100 million “spent” hens die in slaughterhouses every year.(7) Ninety-eight percent of the egg industry’s hens are in cages on factory farms.(8)
Nearly 9 billion “broiler” chickens are raised in sheds each year.(9) Artificial lighting is manipulated to keep the birds eating as often as possible. To keep up with demand and to reduce production costs, genetic selection calls for big birds and fast growth (it now takes only 6 weeks to “grow out” a chick to “processing” weight), which causes extremely painful joint and bone conditions.(10) Undercover investigations into the “broiler” chicken industry have repeatedly revealed birds who were suffering from dehydration, respiratory diseases, bacterial infections, heart attacks, crippled legs, and other serious ailments.
At the slaughterhouse, chickens are hung upside-down, their legs are snapped into metal shackles, their throats are slit open, and they are immersed in scalding hot water for feather removal. They are often conscious through the entire process..
Cows who are left to roam pastures and care for their young form life-long friendships with one another and have demonstrated the ability to be vain, hold grudges, and play games.(11) But the cows raised for the meat and dairy industries are far removed from sun-drenched pastures and nursing calves.
Cattle raised for beef may be born in one state, fattened in another, and slaughtered in yet another. They are fed an unnatural diet of high-bulk grains and other “fillers,” which can include expired dog and cat food, poultry feces, and leftover restaurant food.(12) They are castrated, their horns are ripped out of their heads, and they have third-degree burns inflicted on them (branding), all without any pain relief. During transportation, cattle are crowded into metal trucks where they suffer from trampling, temperature extremes, and lack of food, water, and veterinary care. At the slaughterhouse, cattle may be hoisted upside down by their hind legs and dismembered while fully conscious. The kill rate in a typical slaughterhouse is 400 animals per hour, and “the line is never stopped simply because an animal is alive,” says one worker.(13)
Calves raised for veal are the male offspring of dairy cows. They’re taken from their mothers within a few days of birth and chained in stalls only 2 feet wide and 6 feet long with slatted floors.(14) Since their mothers’ milk is used for human consumption, the calves are fed a milk substitute designed to help them gain at least 2 pounds a day.(15) The diet is purposely low in iron so that the calves become anemic and their flesh stays pale and tender.(16)
Pigs are very clean animals who take to the mud primarily to cool off and evade flies. They are just as friendly and gregarious as dogs, and according to Professor Donald Broom at the Cambridge University Veterinary School, “They have the cognitive ability to be quite sophisticated. Even more so than dogs and certainly three-year-olds.”(17) Mother pigs on factory farms in the U.S. live most of their lives in individual crates 7 feet long by 2 feet wide.(18) They display signs of boredom and stress, such as biting the bars of the cage and gnashing their teeth.(19) Their piglets are taken away three weeks after birth and packed into pens until they are singled out to be raised for breeding or for meat.(20) Like chickens and turkeys, pigs are bred and pumped full of drugs, so that many become crippled under their own weight. Although pigs are naturally affable and social animals, the confinement of these crowded pens causes neurotic behaviors such as cannibalism and tailbiting, so farmers use pliers to break off the ends of the piglets’ teeth and chop off their tails—with no pain relief.(21)
Pigs are transported through all weather extremes, often freezing to the sides of the trucks in top pig-slaughtering states like Iowa and Nebraska or dying from dehydration in states like North Carolina. According to the industry, more than 100,000 pigs die en route to slaughter each year, and more than 400,000 arrive crippled from the journey.(22)
At the slaughterhouse, improper stunning means that many hogs reach the scalding water bath (intended to soften their skin and remove the hair) alive.(23) United States Department of Agriculture inspection records documented 14 humane slaughter violations at one processing plant, including finding hogs that “were walking and squealing after being stunned [with a stun gun] as many as four times.”(24) A PETA investigation found workers at an Oklahoma farm killing pigs by slamming the animals’ heads against the floor and beating them with a hammer.(25)
Environmental and Health Concerns
Factory farms are harmful to the environment as well: Factory farms produce billions of pounds of manure a day, which ends up in lakes, rivers, and drinking water. A Missouri hog farm paid a $1 million fine for illegally dumping waste, causing the contamination of a nearby river and the deaths of more than 50,000 fish.(26)
Of all the agricultural land in the U.S., 80 percent is used to raise animals for food and to grow the grain to feed them—that’s almost half the total land mass of the lower 48 states.(27) Chickens, pigs, cattle, and other animals raised for food are the primary consumers of half the water in the U.S.(28)
An estimated one out of every four cattle who enters a slaughterhouse may have E. coli.(29) A Consumer Reports study of nearly 500 supermarket chickens found campylobacter in 42 percent and salmonella in 12 percent, with up to 90 percent of the bacteria resistant to antibiotics.(30) Eggs pose a salmonella threat to one out of every 50 people each year.(31) In total, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that there are 76 million instances of foodborne illness each year, and more than 5,000 deaths.(32)
Laws and Lifestyles
One way to stop the abuses of factory farming is to support legislation that abolishes battery cages, veal crates, and intensive-confinement systems. Florida voters have banned the use of the tiny gestation crates used on hog farms.(33) The United Kingdom prohibits the use of gestation crates and veal crates.(34,35) The European Union is phasing out the use of battery cages as of 2012.(36)
The best way to save animals from the misery of factory farming is to stop buying and eating meat, milk, and eggs. Vegetarianism and veganism mean eating for life: yours and animals’. Call 1-888-VEG-FOOD or visit GoVeg.com for a free vegetarian starter kit.
1)Marc Kaufman, “WHO Urges End to Use of Antibiotics for Animal Growth,” The Washington Post, 13 Aug. 2003.
2)“Groups Applaud AMA Action on Antibiotics in Agriculture, Antibiotic Resistance,” U.S. Newswire, 20 Jun. 2001.
3)“McDonald’s Calls for Phase-Out of Growth Promoting Antibiotics in Meat Supply, Establishes Global Policy on Antibiotic Use,” McDonald’s Corporate news release, 19 Jun. 2003.
4)Joy A. Mench and Paul B. Siegel, “Poultry,” South Dakota State University, College of Agriculture and Biological Sciences, 11 Jul. 2001.
5)Molly Snyder Edler, “Chicken Love Leads to Book Deal,” OnMilwaukee.com, 26 Sep. 2002.
6)Ryan A. Meunier et al., “Commercial Egg Production and Processing,” Department of Curriculum and Instruction, Purdue University, 4 Apr. 2003.
7)Barbara Olejnik, “Dwindling Spent Hen Disposal Outlets Causes Concern,” Poultry Times, 15 Sep. 2003.
8)Mench and Siegel.
9)Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN, “Chicken Meat, Slaughtered/Prod Animals (1,000),” FAOSTAT Database, 2002.
10)Cindy Skrzycki, “Old Rules on Poultry Categories May Fly the Coup,” The Washington Post, 7 Oct. 2003.
11)Rosamund Young, The Secret Life of Cows, United Kingdom: Farming Books and Video, 2003.
12)Elizabeth Weise, “Consumers May Have a Beef With Cattle Feed,” USA Today, 10 Jun. 2003.
13)Joby Warrick, “‘They Die Piece by Piece’; In Overtaxed Plants, Humane Treatment of Cattle Is Often a Battle Lost,” The Washington Post, 10 Apr. 2001.
14)Tammy L. Terosky et al., “Effects of Individual Housing Design and Size on Special-Fed Holstein Veal Calf Growth Performance, Hematology, and Carcass Characteristics,” Journal of Animal Science, 75 (1997): 1697-1703.
15)John M. Smith, “Raising Dairy Veal,” Ohio State University, information adapted from the Guide for the Care and Production of Veal Calves, 4th ed., 1993, American Veal Association, Inc.
16)“Top New York Restaurants Stop Serving White Veal,” Reuters, 6 Jul. 2000.
17)“New Slant on Chump Chops,” Cambridge Daily News, 29 Mar. 2002.
18)Marc Kaufman, “In Pig Farming, Growing Concern; Raising Sows in Crates Is Questioned,” The Washington Post, 18 Jun. 2001.
20)William G. Luce et al., “Managing the Sow and Litter,” Oklahoma Cooperative Extension Service, Mar. 1995.
21)Luce et al.
22)Joe Vansickle, “Quality Assurance Program Launched,” National Hog Farmer, 15 Feb. 2002.
25)Marc Kaufman, “Ex-Pig Farm Manager Charged With Cruelty,” The Washington Post, 9 Sep. 2001.
26)“Cargill Fined $1 Million for Dumping Hog Waste in River,” Associated Press, 20 Feb. 2002.
27)Marlow Vesterby and Kenneth S. Krupa, “Major Uses of Land in the United States, 1997,” Statistical Bulletin No. 973, U.S. Department of Agriculture, 1997.
28)Bill McKibben, “Taking the Pulse of the Planet,” Audubon, Nov. 1999, p. 104.
29)Philip Brasher, “Summer’s Here—Along With Threat of E. Coli,” Associated Press, 3 Jul. 2000.
30)“Food Safety. Tests. Of Birds and Bacteria,” Consumer Reports, Jan. 2003.
12-03-2004, 08:49 AM #37Originally Posted by Dimes
12-03-2004, 08:51 AM #38
Found that page on PETA, I know alot of people dont like PETA because their tactics are a little crazy sometimes... only way media will pay attention to animal rights, but they have done a great job with their investigations, this week another case of abuse was brought to light ,,..... A slaughter house that was supposed to be one of the most humane because the owners were jewish or something like that... AgriProcessors, Inc., Kosher Slaughterhouse.. The presence of the USDA didn’t have any effect, nor did the presence of the rabbis. These animals were failed by both religion and regulations.
12-03-2004, 08:53 AM #39
12-03-2004, 08:56 AM #40
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