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  1. #1
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    Zionistani Militants Humilitate Palestianians at Checkpoints

    Video of the Incident - http://www.horit.com/violin.htm



    An Israel Defense Forces officer and soldiers at the Beit Iba checkpoint near Nablus forced a young Palestinian on November 9 to open a violin case he was carrying and play the instrument, while local residents waited behind him in a long line.

    The incident was filmed by Horit Herman-Peled, a volunteer for the women's human rights organization Machsom Watch, and a complaint was reviewed by the regional brigade commander who conveyed to his troops the severity of the matter.

    According to Machsom Watch, another volunteer reported several months ago about a similar incident in which a Palestinian was forced to play for soldiers at a checkpoint in the Jerusalem region.

    The IDF Spokesmans Office said in response that an inquiry indicated that the incident was the result of "insensitive conduct on the part of the soldiers at the checkpoint, who contend with a complex and dangerous reality. The IDF does and continues to do all it can to improve the situation at the checkpoints. As part of this effort, the IDF makes efforts to enhance sensitivity toward humanitarian and humane issues at checkpoints. The IDF continuously employs educational, command and disciplinary tools to emphasize to the soldiers and commanders at the checkpoint both the importance of the mission and the need to show sensitivity and consideration in the execution of the mission."

    A military source said Wednesday that the officer who was in charge of the Beit Iba checkpoint on the day of the incident acted in an insensitive manner, but not maliciously, and not with any intent to humiliate the violinist.

    The latest Machsom Watch report points to the Beit Iba checkpoint as one of the key sites where residents' freedom of movement is curtailed. Because there was no lighting and a decision was made to relocate the checkpoint, the checkpoint closed down at 5 P.M. and many residents were forced to retrace their steps.

    Some of the soldiers were laughing during the performance, which lasted for about two minutes, she said.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4043299.stm

    http://www.palestinemonitor.org/new_...checkpoint.htm

  2. #2
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    these people are abusing their power too much. This incident is reminiscent of the "old" times in which people abused powers.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    these people are abusing their power too much. This incident is reminiscent of the "old" times in which people abused powers.

    I wish they had shown the parts in the video where the Israeli solders were supposedly laughing at the man; I am surprised that they didn't.

    I know that it is common pace, here in the states, before you board a plane, that you prove that all of your electronics that you are carrying actually are what the seem to be, ie. Make a call with your phone, turn on your lap top etc.

    I think that it is unfortunate the way that a little power goes to some people's head. I don't think that the Israeli solders are the only ones whom this happens to.

    I have been treated very poorly by public servants in the past, here in America. I even had a State Patrol officer tell me that my wife could not take her driving test because I had used their parallel parking space to show her how to parallel park, I ended up having to call his boss and setting the situation right, but it happens everywhere.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    Video of the Incident - http://www.horit.com/violin.htm



    An Israel Defense Forces officer and soldiers at the Beit Iba checkpoint near Nablus forced a young Palestinian on November 9 to open a violin case he was carrying and play the instrument, while local residents waited behind him in a long line.

    The incident was filmed by Horit Herman-Peled, a volunteer for the women's human rights organization Machsom Watch, and a complaint was reviewed by the regional brigade commander who conveyed to his troops the severity of the matter.

    According to Machsom Watch, another volunteer reported several months ago about a similar incident in which a Palestinian was forced to play for soldiers at a checkpoint in the Jerusalem region.

    The IDF Spokesmans Office said in response that an inquiry indicated that the incident was the result of "insensitive conduct on the part of the soldiers at the checkpoint, who contend with a complex and dangerous reality. The IDF does and continues to do all it can to improve the situation at the checkpoints. As part of this effort, the IDF makes efforts to enhance sensitivity toward humanitarian and humane issues at checkpoints. The IDF continuously employs educational, command and disciplinary tools to emphasize to the soldiers and commanders at the checkpoint both the importance of the mission and the need to show sensitivity and consideration in the execution of the mission."

    A military source said Wednesday that the officer who was in charge of the Beit Iba checkpoint on the day of the incident acted in an insensitive manner, but not maliciously, and not with any intent to humiliate the violinist.

    The latest Machsom Watch report points to the Beit Iba checkpoint as one of the key sites where residents' freedom of movement is curtailed. Because there was no lighting and a decision was made to relocate the checkpoint, the checkpoint closed down at 5 P.M. and many residents were forced to retrace their steps.

    Some of the soldiers were laughing during the performance, which lasted for about two minutes, she said.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4043299.stm

    http://www.palestinemonitor.org/new_...checkpoint.htm
    Nothing is wrong with this video. People who are capable of hidding bombs in ambulances and on childre would be capable of creating a violin bomb. The soldier wanted to make sure this violin was real and not a bomb, and if you count the seconds of the movie you'll see he wasn't asked to play long (notice how when the soldier looks up the movie ends. probably because he told him to stop playing....?)

  5. #5
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    while the laughing part was over the top, there are jerks everywhere. This is not noteworthy world news.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rak_Ani
    Nothing is wrong with this video. People who are capable of hidding bombs in ambulances and on childre would be capable of creating a violin bomb. The soldier wanted to make sure this violin was real and not a bomb, and if you count the seconds of the movie you'll see he wasn't asked to play long (notice how when the soldier looks up the movie ends. probably because he told him to stop playing....?)
    yea shes right. when they check my laptop at the airport and ask me to turn it on should i think that the US Govt hates white collared workers???

  7. #7
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    The IDF said, the soldiers' conduct at the West Bank checkpoint had been insensitive and they were reprimanded.

    check the bbc link. Bomb? thats the worst excuse I have ever seen. you think that a violin bomb cannot be played? do you think the zionist soldier would be sitting there so calmly if he felt it was a bomb.

    a laptop is a different story, i have also been asked to turn on my pocketpc and my laptop.

    anyway this is the first incident, its systematic humalitaion

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...361552,00.html

    Yoram Kaniuk, author of a book about a Jewish violinist forced to play for a concentration camp commander, wrote in Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper that the soldiers responsible should be put on trial "not for abusing Arabs but for disgracing the Holocaust".

    "Of all the terrible things done at the roadblocks, this story is one which negates the very possibility of the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. If [the military] does not put these soldiers on trial we will have no moral right to speak of ourselves as a state that rose from the Holocaust," he wrote.

    "If we allow Jewish soldiers to put an Arab violinist at a roadblock and laugh at him, we have succeeded in arriving at the lowest moral point possible. Our entire existence in this Arab region was justified, and is still justified, by our suffering; by Jewish violinists in the camps."

    Others took a broader view by drawing a link between the routine dehumanising treatment of Palestinians at checkpoints, the desecration of dead bodies and what looks very much like the murder of a terrified 13-year-old Palestinian girl by an army officer in Gaza.

    Israelis put great store in a belief that their army is "the most moral in the world" because it says it adheres to a code of "the purity of arms". There is rarely much public questioning of the army's routine explanation that Palestinian civilians who have been killed had been "caught in crossfire", or that children are shot because they are used as cover by fighters.

    One Israeli peace group, the Arik Institute, took out large newspaper adverts to plead for "Jewish patriots" to "open your eyes and look around" at the suffering of Palestinians.

    Last week the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem criticised what it described as a "culture of impunity" within the army. The group says at least 1,656 Palestinian non-combatants have been killed during the intifada, including 529 children.

    "To date, one soldier has been convicted of causing the death of a Palestinian," it said. "The combination of rules of engagement that encourage a trigger-happy attitude among soldiers together with the climate of impunity results in a clear and very troubling message about the value the Israeli military places on Palestinian life."


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...361552,00.html

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    The IDF said, the soldiers' conduct at the West Bank checkpoint had been insensitive and they were reprimanded.

    check the bbc link. Bomb? thats the worst excuse I have ever seen. you think that a violin bomb cannot be played? do you think the zionist soldier would be sitting there so calmly if he felt it was a bomb.

    a laptop is a different story, i have also been asked to turn on my pocketpc and my laptop.

    anyway this is the first incident, its systematic humalitaion

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...361552,00.html

    Yoram Kaniuk, author of a book about a Jewish violinist forced to play for a concentration camp commander, wrote in Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper that the soldiers responsible should be put on trial "not for abusing Arabs but for disgracing the Holocaust".

    "Of all the terrible things done at the roadblocks, this story is one which negates the very possibility of the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. If [the military] does not put these soldiers on trial we will have no moral right to speak of ourselves as a state that rose from the Holocaust," he wrote.

    "If we allow Jewish soldiers to put an Arab violinist at a roadblock and laugh at him, we have succeeded in arriving at the lowest moral point possible. Our entire existence in this Arab region was justified, and is still justified, by our suffering; by Jewish violinists in the camps."

    Others took a broader view by drawing a link between the routine dehumanising treatment of Palestinians at checkpoints, the desecration of dead bodies and what looks very much like the murder of a terrified 13-year-old Palestinian girl by an army officer in Gaza.

    Israelis put great store in a belief that their army is "the most moral in the world" because it says it adheres to a code of "the purity of arms". There is rarely much public questioning of the army's routine explanation that Palestinian civilians who have been killed had been "caught in crossfire", or that children are shot because they are used as cover by fighters.

    One Israeli peace group, the Arik Institute, took out large newspaper adverts to plead for "Jewish patriots" to "open your eyes and look around" at the suffering of Palestinians.

    Last week the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem criticised what it described as a "culture of impunity" within the army. The group says at least 1,656 Palestinian non-combatants have been killed during the intifada, including 529 children.

    "To date, one soldier has been convicted of causing the death of a Palestinian," it said. "The combination of rules of engagement that encourage a trigger-happy attitude among soldiers together with the climate of impunity results in a clear and very troubling message about the value the Israeli military places on Palestinian life."


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...361552,00.html
    It's called procedure Rock and procedures are born from experience. Do you think that if you lived under danger of death 24/7 you wouldn't get used to it eventually?
    Nothing is 100% but what can be done is done. It's legitimate to do these checks, as legitimate as it is to check your luggage when you board an airplane. You think that at the airport people don't get humilitated? It's better to have one person feel uncomfortable than have 10 people dead.

  9. #9
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    Man stop your whining this is far from mistreatment and a human rights violation. Pick another topic this is bunk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    [b]

    anyway this is the first incident, its systematic humalitaion
    Is this a typo, or are you saying that this is the first incident and that there will be more incidents?

    I believe that making the man play for 2 min seems excessive, and for the solders to be laughing sounds insensitive.

    However I am amazed that they have not made the video of the man playing for 2 min or the solders laughing available, this makes be doubt the credibility of the source.

  11. #11
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    I'd have probably made him play it as well. I love classical music. If I was that guard, it was a long day, everyone hates you and you hate being there heck a little music would have made my day. Heck, if he was really good I'd have him play one song everytime he came trough the line.....of course I'd let him cut to the front of the line when I saw him.....sort of a little tit for tat. Maybe then every musician in line would hold up their instruments in hopes I'll let them cut to the front to play a song and get out of there faster. Of course if they really suck I'd make them go back to the end of the line till they could play better. hahahahaha

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    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut
    I'd have probably made him play it as well. I love classical music. If I was that guard, it was a long day, everyone hates you and you hate being there heck a little music would have made my day. Heck, if he was really good I'd have him play one song everytime he came trough the line.....of course I'd let him cut to the front of the line when I saw him.....sort of a little tit for tat. Maybe then every musician in line would hold up their instruments in hopes I'll let them cut to the front to play a song and get out of there faster. Of course if they really suck I'd make them go back to the end of the line till they could play better. hahahahaha




    Seriously though, I'd have done the very same. I mean, in regards to getting the guy to play the violin. I've searched literally thousends of Arab's and their vehicles in Lebanon, its SOP (Standard Operating Procedure).

    This is just another example of Arab media waiting for a photo op.

  13. #13
    RockSolid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1victor
    Man stop your whining this is far from mistreatment and a human rights violation. Pick another topic this is bunk.
    for you its not because you dont go this everday humalition, you and i live in a society that has equality for all. we dont put a certain group in cages and make them feel like animals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12

    However I am amazed that they have not made the video of the man playing for 2 min or the solders laughing available, this makes be doubt the credibility of the source.
    you doubt everything that doesnt go your way, this isnt an "ARAB" source like a lot of you claim. The source is a jewish womens rights group.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    for you its not because you dont go this everday humalition, you and i live in a society that has equality for all. we dont put a certain group in cages and make them feel like animals.


    Oh, the poor baby, should I post something about Israelis getting killed by suicide bombers? That happens a lot more than these 'incidents,' and its a little worse than humiliation, don't you think? I'm sorry, but this is absolutely rediculous, the guy played a violin and a few guys laughed. Is that going to scar him for the rest of his life? I don't think he really cares what those guys think anyway.......if it would have been Arabs making a guy play a violin and a few of them laughed during his performance, do you think this would garner any attention?

    Much more humiliating things have happened to kids at elementary schools, this is complete retardation that anyone would make a big deal out of this.

    Seriously, the guy played a violin. Its not that bad. Its not like they tied a rope around his penis and made him jump from a tree.

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    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Rock, seriously I find your avatar more upsetting and more offensive than the subject of this post. Making a sweet little girl like that wear a terrorists handband and God's name on it, disgusting if you ask me.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    you doubt everything that doesnt go your way, this isnt an "ARAB" source like a lot of you claim. The source is a jewish womens rights group.

    Please point out where I have said that this is an "Arab" source,

    Simply put, if they have this ****ing evidence why are they talking about it and not showing it?

    I believe it is because they are exaggerating the situation and if we were to view the entire video we would understand that the event isn’t newsworthy.

    People with agendas, tend to twist and exaggerate the truth, in order to promote their particular agenda, including a Jewish Woman’s Rights group.

    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    for you its not because you dont go this everday humalition, you and i live in a society that has equality for all. we dont put a certain group in cages and make them feel like animals.
    If you are seeking a person to blame for the check points, then I suggest you blame the suicide bombers, and people who travel into Israel to kill innocent civilians, they are the true villain in this story.

    I believe the check points are comparable to the checkpoints that we, in the US have to go through at the airports. I have heard many stories of people feeling humiliated by being strip searched, their luggage searched, spoken to in a rude manor, etc. It is the price we now have to pay due to fanatic Muslim terrorists.

    Bottom line, this seems to me to be a silly attempt to draw attention to the Palestinian cause.

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    Well it is the machismo of the Islamic people that seems to be causing many of the problems. Their dignity, honor etc.. have been offended so they blow up civilians. Frankly that is called pride and deemed a sin.

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    IDF inquiry results:

    The Palestinian wasn't asked to play the violin. He was asked to open the case for checks and he started playing without being asked to. Looking at the video that doesn't seem hard to belive. The soldier isn't even paying attention to him as he plays and only tells him to stop after his checks are finished. That's what it looks like to me anyway.

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    Rak_Ani this thread is so stupid its not worth the effort. Your talking to a guy who's country has metal detector's to the enterence to kids schools, and he's he's trying to make an issue of this!.

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    security is security, the only way to stop future attacks is to make checkpoints so strict and uncomfotable that terrorists lose hope in travelling conventionally. Ofcourse its very inconvenient for normal people that arent causing any trouble, but u are being searched like that for your own safety too.
    If human rights ever saw the way i get searched in airports then they would shut down their offices and devote their cause to helping me! but i dont complain cause at least i know if someone was trying to cause any trouble they would easily get them with such security measures.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Rak_Ani this thread is so stupid its not worth the effort. Your talking to a guy who's country has metal detector's to the enterence to kids schools, and he's he's trying to make an issue of this!.
    not my neighborhood, if they told the kids to dance and make fools of themselves then it would be wrong.

    he is in his country and is being checked by foriengers, how ironic.

  23. #23
    atlgadoll is offline Junior Member
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    Maybe he should keep his Palestinian arse and violin on the other side of the border to avoid possible future humiliation.

  24. #24
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    Last edited by wingsofazrael; 04-05-2006 at 04:14 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingsofazrael
    uh, apparently you dont realize israel is an illegally annexed part of palestine. if someone came in and kicked you the fukk out of your house or town, would you not fight it? and dont give me a political answer either, because you know it would be bull****. would you not fight the checkpoints just to be able to travel through an area where you or your family once lived? thats what i thought. but im sure you havent thought about that. youll probably come back with some kind of remark like 'well, i wouldnt get my ass kicked' or 'get over it'...and all that does is make you look uneducated.
    We've been through this before , haven't we ? Israel's occupation of palestine is not illegal - unless every country in the world is " illegally occupied " .

    Might makes Right - Nearly every country in today's world has been born through violence and hostile take overs .

    Also , the land belonged to the jews for a good while prior to there forced departure by Roman hands . The jews were given back what was stolen from them .

    Why is it every thread you post has something to do with how " bad and evil " the jews are ? Isn't it obvious you're not winning over any people to your cause , you're not converting anyone to your ideals ?

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    wingsofazrael is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgoroth_
    We've been through this before , haven't we ? Israel's occupation of palestine is not illegal - unless every country in the world is " illegally occupied " .

    Might makes Right - Nearly every country in today's world has been born through violence and hostile take overs .

    Also , the land belonged to the jews for a good while prior to there forced departure by Roman hands . The jews were given back what was stolen from them .

    Why is it every thread you post has something to do with how " bad and evil " the jews are ? Isn't it obvious you're not winning over any people to your cause , you're not converting anyone to your ideals ?
    i have no problem with jews, as stated many times before, just one with the evil zionist regime of israel. arabs are just as native to the land as jews. bad and evil jews??? where do you get that? im not trying to convert anything, just trying to educate the blind and ignorant masses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgoroth_
    We've been through this before , haven't we ? Israel's occupation of palestine is not illegal - unless every country in the world is " illegally occupied " .

    Might makes Right - Nearly every country in today's world has been born through violence and hostile take overs .

    Also , the land belonged to the jews for a good while prior to there forced departure by Roman hands . The jews were given back what was stolen from them .

    Why is it every thread you post has something to do with how " bad and evil " the jews are ? Isn't it obvious you're not winning over any people to your cause , you're not converting anyone to your ideals ?
    might makes right? tell me where you live, so I can come over, and take your house over, then lets see your big shot mouth talk about might makes right, and my actions being legal or not.

    no one is converting anything, i am presenting my opinion, once a zionist always a zionist.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    might makes right? tell me where you live, so I can come over, and take your house over, then lets see your big shot mouth talk about might makes right, and my actions being legal or not.
    Are you threatening Gorgoroth?

    First you support Palestinian terrorists, and now you appear to be threatening a fellow member, this is typical of Muslim extremist.

    You would probably find exactly what the Arab nations have found after their repeated attacks of Israel, a through butt kicking.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingsofazrael
    uh, apparently you dont realize israel is an illegally annexed part of palestine
    Israel was established by the UN, who after being given control of the area from Great Brittan, controlled what happened. The UN then created two separate states Israel and Palestine. Thus Israel was created perfectly legal.

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    wingsofazrael is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    Are you threatening Gorgoroth?

    First you support Palestinian terrorists, and now you appear to be threatening a fellow member, this is typical of Muslim extremist.

    You would probably find exactly what the Arab nations have found after their repeated attacks of Israel, a through butt kicking.



    Israel was established by the UN, who after being given control of the area from Great Brittan, controlled what happened. The UN then created two separate states Israel and Palestine. Thus Israel was created perfectly legal.
    well seeing as how there is no palestine because of israel, i deem israel illegal because of the seziure of palestinian lands without there being a palestinian state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wingsofazrael
    well seeing as how there is no palestine because of israel, i deem israel illegal because of the seziure of palestinian lands without there being a palestinian state.
    When the UN’s Partition Plan was first implemented, there was a separate Palestinian state. The plan was rejected by the Arabs who were not willing to compromize, refused to recognize Israel, and vowed to destroy Israel.

    After repeated attacks from the Palestinians and the Arab countries surrounding Israel, Israel has been forced to form a buffer zone between itself and neighboring countries.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigen12
    Are you threatening Gorgoroth?

    First you support Palestinian terrorists, and now you appear to be threatening a fellow member, this is typical of Muslim extremist.

    You would probably find exactly what the Arab nations have found after their repeated attacks of Israel, a through butt kicking.



    Israel was established by the UN, who after being given control of the area from Great Brittan, controlled what happened. The UN then created two separate states Israel and Palestine. Thus Israel was created perfectly legal.
    its an analogy, stop getting your panties in a bunch. calling me an muslim extremist is a compliment. arabs leaders are useless pieces of ****, but in the future this will change.

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    Palestinians, and Muslims in general are amost too pathetic to even discuss. If it wasnt for the US coming in to the middle east and drilling for oil, they would be wandering around the desert and living in tents. As soon as the oil is gone, or another means of energy becomes available, they'll be back to living in tents and travelling by camel again. How do they use the massive amounts of wealth that they have coming in? To oppress/repress their own people while a very few sit on billions. Pitiful and pathetic.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid
    its an analogy, calling me an muslim extremist is a compliment.

    I just wanted to check, you never can tell with Muslim extremist......

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    wingsofazrael is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by atlgadoll
    Palestinians, and Muslims in general are amost too pathetic to even discuss. If it wasnt for the US coming in to the middle east and drilling for oil, they would be wandering around the desert and living in tents. As soon as the oil is gone, or another means of energy becomes available, they'll be back to living in tents and travelling by camel again. How do they use the massive amounts of wealth that they have coming in? To oppress/repress their own people while a very few sit on billions. Pitiful and pathetic.
    thats kind of a broad ranging statement isnt it? wouldnt that kind of be like me saying everyone from atlanta is a worthless sack of ****??? i dont believe that personally, just making a point to your rather racist ass diatribe.

  35. #35
    atlgadoll is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingsofazrael
    thats kind of a broad ranging statement isnt it? wouldnt that kind of be like me saying everyone from atlanta is a worthless sack of ****??? i dont believe that personally, just making a point to your rather racist ass diatribe.
    Guess what? Although this may be difficult for you guys to believe, Palestinans and Muslims dont qualify as their own separate race any more than Americans and Catholics do. Rather than calling me a racist just because you dont agree with me, why dont you tell me where I'm off base with my "diatribe"?

  36. #36
    Animal Cracker's Avatar
    Animal Cracker is offline Anabolic Member
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    So what is the solution- if the Palestinians do not want to deal with IDF checkpoints- go to Egypt, Jordan or stay home! Things are simple! If all the guy had to do was open the case, then do so. I think that the Israelis are doing everything they can just to maintain order of some sort. I too have done searches on vehicles and, personnel, not in this specific area, but in the Balkans...there is no limit to the lenghts that some folks will go to inorder to hide items or to try to make an azz out of themselves while you are doing a search. Besides, those people should know the game by now.

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