12-02-2004, 05:45 AM #1
Christmas to people who are religious but not christians...
I can see how people who dont believe in anything celebrate christmas because to them its just a 'giving presents' day. But for people like muslims, mostly those in the states, do you give gifts? do you decorate a tree? Celebrate christmas? Knowing thats its a really a christian day?
12-02-2004, 07:43 AM #2Originally Posted by max2extreme
I have friends who are Jehovah’s Witnesses, they don't celebrate Christmas. As children they would just get gifts from their parents around Christmas time, but would not celebrate it.
12-02-2004, 10:32 AM #3
I am muslim but grew up between many christian people so my parents let me get presents and got to the school christmas party and sit on santa's lap (i was too young to realise why he was so excited back then!!) but the point was my family didnt want me to be the only kid in school that didnt get presents and grow up with issues. But when i grew up and learned more abotu my religeon then i dont celebrate it now, i do wish every chritistian friend a happy christmas but i dont celebrate it myslef.
Also muslims believe that jesus was born sometime late spring/early summer.....many of my friends get really mad and curse at me when i say that but then when they go ask their father/reveren at church they find out that in actual christian study it is also believed that he is born in that period of time and not in december.
So before u all target your anger at me and turn this thread into a flame-kaew thread...go ask someone high up in your church about how the facts and description of the birth of christ indicate that he was born in around june.
12-02-2004, 11:45 AM #4
In my opinion, Christmas in the U.S. has morphed into Xmas - a secular holiday.
12-02-2004, 11:50 AM #5Associate Member
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i see nothing wrong with celebrating the birthday of jesus(pbuh) but i was a christian, before being muslim. i dont believe in the whole tree thing or presents, but if i had kids i wouldnt stop them from doing it. and i agree that christmas has become a secular holiday. and from everything i have read about the birthday of jesus(pbuh), i understand it to have taken place around october(???)...
12-02-2004, 12:05 PM #6
Mind you this was a long, long, long time ago but there was a kid in my class back when I was in the 3rd grad that was atheist. His family didn't celebrate Christmas or any other religious holiday.....as well he didn't have to say the Pledge of Allegence or pray afterwards. Keep in mind bros when I went to school these were part of our everyday routine.....back before the courts got involved. Anyway, I always felt sorry for the guy, though most every person in the class including the teachers gave him greif over it. Of course I didn't make the contection as to the fact his family didn't believe in God but I was too young to know anyway. I remember getting my mother to get him a present so I could give it too him......his mother made him return it too me.....then I even felt worse for him.
It's a pretty well known fact with Christians that Jesus wasn't really born on Christmas.......more or less the date was chosen to cover over some pagen holiday and make it into a Christain celebration.......we can't have people dancing around trees and bushes celebrating a pagen hoilday now can we. hahahahah
12-02-2004, 12:52 PM #7
I seriously wonder what effect some of the little white lies that we tell our children have on them.
First we tell them that there is a magical man who delivers them presents once a year. Second we tell them when they lose a tooth, a fairy will remove the tooth from underneath their pillow and will replace it with money. Third we tell them that there is a bunny that delivers candy and eggs once a year. Then we tell them that there is a God watching over them and that his son Jesus was born on Christmas day.
As the children age, and discover that there is no Santa Claus, that there is no Tooth Fairy and that there is no Easter Bunny, isn’t it inevitable for them to then think that there is no God, and that he didn’t have a son named Jesus?
Last edited by Bigen12; 12-02-2004 at 01:02 PM.
12-02-2004, 01:01 PM #8Originally Posted by BigGreen
12-02-2004, 02:01 PM #9
i hate it when jewish people ask "are you open on christmas?" Stay home one day and deal with the fact that the world doesnt revolve around you!!!!
12-02-2004, 07:45 PM #10
I remember when i was kid and since i'm not chrisitian, christmas was always a hard time especially when we had to do presentations about what we did on christmas day, i used to get so many looks of pity or anger when i said i dont do anything that day. That doesn't mean we shouldn't celebrate christmas, i thinks its great opportunity to learn about another religion. I remember a couple of years ago i persuaded my parents to put a christmas tree up, and we had these peeps coming to our house and sing songs outside our door, that was cool, although we were confused - we didn't now if we should invite them in or give them some money for singing.
I agree the west has become to politically correct, we live in a christian majority and they should be allowed to celebrate it as freely as they want, i feel kids probably nowadays dont really now what christmas is about.
12-02-2004, 09:23 PM #11
Is not Dec 25 a German holiday that the day was stolen and called Christmas anyways...back many many years ago that is
What the hell does Christmas have to do with Jesus anyways...a tree, presents, santa, elves...etc
I would think a true Christian wouldnt have a treee or presents or anything, as that I think would be pagan if you thought about it hard enough...just like the eater bunny being pagan on Easter, resurection...not rabbits and eggs
I consider Christmas a non religious holiday IMO...maybe it started out at that though years ago. Even at churches, they talk about it as Jesus birthday, but then everyone goes home and celebrates getting presents and a christmas tree. I know a few dedicated people who I would call a true "Christian" they do not have trees or exchange gifts for the above reasons. They truly celebrate the birth, or the represented day, of Jesus.
12-02-2004, 09:29 PM #12Originally Posted by max2extreme
i have muslim friends who have christmas trees in their house, i dont agree with them, and i tell them about it, but they say its just for their kids, who like the notion of santa claus and gift giving.
12-02-2004, 09:38 PM #13
I dug this up...this explains partly what I was trying to remeber
The Origin of Christmas
Courtesy: The Message International, Copyright © 1993, All Rights Reserved.
The word "Christmas" means "Mass of Christ." It is pronounced "Christ-Mass" and that, in effect, is true in more ways than one. Jesus Christ, however, has nothing to do with the "Mass" that is connected to his title. Whence comes Christmas, then?
This supposedly holy day came to non-Christians/Protestants from the Roman/Christian-Catholic Church. But where did the Catholic Church get it? Not from the New Testament or from the original apostles who were personally instructed by Jesus. It gravitated in the fourth century into the Roman Catholic Church from paganism.
In the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, published by that Church under the heading "Christmas" it is recorded, "Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the church...The first evidence of the feast is from Egypt...Pagan customs centering around the January calends (the 1st day of the ancient Roman month) gravitated to Christmas." In the same encyclopedia, under the caption "Natal Day," we find that the early Catholic Father, Origen, acknowledged this truth. "In the scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a banquet on his birthday. It is only the sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into the world."
The Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1946 edition, has this to report: "Christmas (i.e. the mass of Christ)...was not among the earliest festivals of the Church." It was not instituted by Christ or the apostles, or by Bible authority, but from paganism."
The Encyclopedia Americana, 1944 edition, says: "Christmas was according to many authorities, not celebrated in the first centuries of the Christian Church, as the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons, rather than their birth." It goes on to state: "A feast was established in memory of this event (Christ's birth) in the fourth century. In the fifth century, the Western church ordered it to be celebrated forever, on the day of the Old Roman Feast of the birth of Sol, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ's birth existed." Sol means 'sun' not 'son.'
Any encyclopedia will admit that Jesus Christ was not born on December 25. This is common knowledge in the coterie of priests and rabbinic leadership. The question is, how did "Christmas" creep into the Western Christian world? The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge explains it clearly in its article on Christmas. It states: "How much the date of the festival depended upon the pagan Brumalia (Dec. 25) following the Saturnalia(Dec. 17-24), and celebrating the shortest day of the year and the 'New Sun'...cannot be accurately determined. The pagan Saturnalia and Brumalia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influences...The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebrations with little change in spirit and in manner."
Some Christian preachers of the West and Near East protested against the unseemly frivolity with which Christ's birthday was celebrated, while Christians of Mesopotamia accused their Western brethren of "idolatry and man worship" for adopting as Christian this pagan festival.
It is a historical fact that prior to the fourth century, Christians were few in number. The Roman world had been totally pagan. The former were persecuted by the government and by pagans in general. With the advent of Constantine as emperor, who made his profession of Christianity on equal footing with paganism, the Roman people began to accept the now-popular Christianity. It must be remembered that these people were rooted in pagan customs, and the chief of them was this idolatrous festival of December 25th. They did not give it up, and others took it up.
The same indictment in the New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia explains how the recognition by Constantine of Sunday, which had been the day of pagan sun worship, and how the influence of the pagan Manichaeism, which identified the "son" with the physical "sun", gave these pagans of the fourth century, now turning over wholesale to Christianity," their excuse for calling their festival date of December 25th (birthday of the sun-god), the birthday of the "son of God."
Every Christmas season one hears chanted and sung the hymn, "Silent Night, Holy Night" with its familiar "Mother and Child" theme. Being reared and steeped in this dogma connected to the Church, one never questions the origin of such a hymn. Semiramis and her son Nimrod, respectively, were the "Queen of Heaven" and "divine son of heaven." They were the chief objects of worship in the Babylonian system of religion. This worship of "mother and child" spread all over the world long before Jesus was born. (Please see the book, The Two Babylons, by Rev. Alexander Hislop, Bible Truth Depot, 1238 Corliss Ave., Neptune, NJ).
Nimrod built the Tower of Babel. The name Nimrod, in Hebrew, is derived from "Marad" and means "he rebelled." He was, according to the Bible, a mighty hunter, and according to the myths about him, a great lover. He is the baby Cupid with the bow and arrow.
In ancient writings it is claimed that Nimrod married his own mother and beget children by her. After Nimrod's death his mother-wife, Semiramis, propagated the dogma of his survival. She claimed that a full-grown Evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, symbolizing the rebirth of her son-husband. On each anniversary of his death/birth, she claimed Nimrod would visit the Evergreen tree and leave gifts under, and on it. December 25th was the date this took place. This is the origin of the Christmas tree.
The Bible, Jeremiah (10:2-6): "Thus says the Lord learn not the way of the heathen...For the customs of the people are vain."
Obviously, Christians, and probally 99.9% of the world doesnt celebrate Chrismas for this origin, but neverless its interesting.
12-03-2004, 04:56 AM #14
Was christmas a pagan holiday. depends. After the Roman emperor Constantine converted to Christianity in 312, he sought to combine the worship of the sun god with worship of christ. Christian leaders accepted Constantine's conversion in a positive light and saw the "Christ-mass" celebration as a vital part of the process of converting the pagan world to christianity. I see nothing wrong with this. I dont see it as originating from a pagan holiday just because its on the same day, its serving a new purpose, to celebrate Jesus' birth (true, december 25 is NOT the day Jesus was born, but the day we celebrate). Just as early EARLY on, pagan temples were converted to christian churches. Does that mean that christians should not worship in those churches because they were originally built to worship another god? I dont think so because the purpose is changed. The building itself really doesnt mean anything. Its the reason you are there that matters. Just as the day Dec 25th really doesnt mean anything, its the reason you are celebrating that matters.
12-03-2004, 05:11 AM #15
As for giving presents, trees, lights, etc... I see nothing wrong with that either. For me and my christian friends, it has nothing to do with worshipping a druidic god by having a tree or any of that nonsense. especially since for us, there is only one god, so how can decorating a tree mean we are worshipping another god? Because another religion worshipped their god by decorating a tree? means that if i decorate a tree, im worshipping their god? I disagree. I put up lights and decorate trees as part of a celebration of Jesus' birth. Is it the sole reason? No. I like decorating my tree with ornaments me and my family has picked up over the years. I like looking at christmas lights. Im giving presents to people to make them happy. Im helping the poor. Giving needful things to those who cant get them themselves. Do I do this just because its christmas? no. I do it all thruout the year. Is it bad for me to do this on christmas too? If I didnt give or recieve on christmas, would that make christmas any different? Different....yea. But not better or worse. If i was ever not able to give gifts to people, oh well, no biggie, lets celebrate Jesue! If i dont recieve gifts, oh well, no biggie, lets celebrate Jesus! Is Christmas the only day I celebrate Jesus' birth? life? death? No, i celebrate that he was born every day. I celebrate his life everyday and i celebrate his death every day.
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